The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
I hydrate pretty well. I track it, so know I take in at least 2.7 l of hydration each day (often a bit more fluid, as coffee, for example, doesn’t hydrate to 100% of its fluid volume drunk).
The issue does seem to link to a lack of shade. Had I run a shadier route yesterday I’m convinced I would have been fine, as my fitness is pretty good (half marathon capable), and I’ve only ever struggled at 10 km on sunny days.
The issue does seem to link to a lack of shade. Had I run a shadier route yesterday I’m convinced I would have been fine, as my fitness is pretty good (half marathon capable), and I’ve only ever struggled at 10 km on sunny days.
Still Mulling said:
I hydrate pretty well. I track it, so know I take in at least 2.7 l of hydration each day (often a bit more fluid, as coffee, for example, doesn’t hydrate to 100% of its fluid volume drunk).
The issue does seem to link to a lack of shade. Had I run a shadier route yesterday I’m convinced I would have been fine, as my fitness is pretty good (half marathon capable), and I’ve only ever struggled at 10 km on sunny days.
Probably just an off day! Should be able to complete a HM without any water especially if you are hydrated the day before! The issue does seem to link to a lack of shade. Had I run a shadier route yesterday I’m convinced I would have been fine, as my fitness is pretty good (half marathon capable), and I’ve only ever struggled at 10 km on sunny days.
Don't overthink it you clearly drink enough it was probably just a one off!
It crossed my mind, but it also happened at two sunny races. Low-20s°C each time, little shade, so this is now three strikes. I’m on BP meds, but could be a red-herring. I’m thinking it could be more to do with core temperature than hydration, so considering a foil lined running vest/backpack into which I can throw some ice cubes. (Mine melted in the bottle within about 18.3 seconds yesterday! 
)
)First marathon.
Yesterday.
Intended as an experiment in preparation for the Big Apple later on this year, and an experiment so it was. Billed as the Edinburgh Marathon Festival, but really you spend about 5% of the distance in quintessential Auld Reekie. After that, it's eastwards up the coast road and then back to Musselburgh. Long hot and a bit dull to be honest.
My primary aim was to finish. Done. Secondary aim was a time of 4hr 20, but alas 5hr 03 was the actual. Last 10K a real struggle with the legs; fuelling, energy was fine, just my legs gave up. I now know where to concentrate training for New York. My buddy reckoned I needed more electrolytes rather than water on course. His time? 3 hours and 43 seconds. Those 43 seconds are really pissing him off!
Yesterday.
Intended as an experiment in preparation for the Big Apple later on this year, and an experiment so it was. Billed as the Edinburgh Marathon Festival, but really you spend about 5% of the distance in quintessential Auld Reekie. After that, it's eastwards up the coast road and then back to Musselburgh. Long hot and a bit dull to be honest.
My primary aim was to finish. Done. Secondary aim was a time of 4hr 20, but alas 5hr 03 was the actual. Last 10K a real struggle with the legs; fuelling, energy was fine, just my legs gave up. I now know where to concentrate training for New York. My buddy reckoned I needed more electrolytes rather than water on course. His time? 3 hours and 43 seconds. Those 43 seconds are really pissing him off!
Still Mulling said:
Hey Folks. I hit a wall at 10 km of a 15 km run, and had to walk home from 12 km today; just too much intensity to the sunshine. There was a cool breeze, I thought I’d done OK on hydration 0.75 l on the run, but perhaps not enough leading up to it), and I didn’t feel overheated as I was keeping my pace down.
Any tips on being able to handle the prolonged sun better, other than acclimatising with repeated shorter runs in the sun?
Assuming you are in UK it’s just heat that we aren’t used to mate and not much we can do as we don’t get this weather often enough. Any tips on being able to handle the prolonged sun better, other than acclimatising with repeated shorter runs in the sun?
I did 23km in the heat yesterday and struggled after 10m (I do a 19-20km run) most weeks with no issues. Completely different ball game in full sun for an hour and half.
JapanRed said:
Assuming you are in UK it’s just heat that we aren’t used to mate and not much we can do as we don’t get this weather often enough.
I did 23km in the heat yesterday and struggled after 10m (I do a 19-20km run) most weeks with no issues. Completely different ball game in full sun for an hour and half.
Cheers JR. I bought a hydration rucksack and tested that today. Sipping little and often seemed to help, although the first half of today’s route was reasonably well shaded. Just got to keep getting outside and start short then build up, I think!I did 23km in the heat yesterday and struggled after 10m (I do a 19-20km run) most weeks with no issues. Completely different ball game in full sun for an hour and half.
How much should I taking notice of heart rates?
I'm 37, slim, male, no previous heart issues or ill health.
By the 220 less age rule, my max HR should be 183.
I have a brand new forerunner 55, and all my runs are basically 90% in the zone 5 red.
Even when I feel I'm running easy, I'm at an average of about 175-180.
Is this particularly dangerous? If I take it any easier I feel like I'll be walking.
I'm 37, slim, male, no previous heart issues or ill health.
By the 220 less age rule, my max HR should be 183.
I have a brand new forerunner 55, and all my runs are basically 90% in the zone 5 red.
Even when I feel I'm running easy, I'm at an average of about 175-180.
Is this particularly dangerous? If I take it any easier I feel like I'll be walking.
Fusss said:
How much should I taking notice of heart rates?
I'm 37, slim, male, no previous heart issues or ill health.
By the 220 less age rule, my max HR should be 183.
I have a brand new forerunner 55, and all my runs are basically 90% in the zone 5 red.
Even when I feel I'm running easy, I'm at an average of about 175-180.
Is this particularly dangerous? If I take it any easier I feel like I'll be walking.
First off disregard 220- age completely. While it might hold at a population level there is huge variation in individuals.I'm 37, slim, male, no previous heart issues or ill health.
By the 220 less age rule, my max HR should be 183.
I have a brand new forerunner 55, and all my runs are basically 90% in the zone 5 red.
Even when I feel I'm running easy, I'm at an average of about 175-180.
Is this particularly dangerous? If I take it any easier I feel like I'll be walking.
Sounds like your HR zones are set wrong as there is no way you could sustain all of your runs in zone 5. There are various methods online that involve running hard up hills to establish your HR Max, or you could race a 5k hard (i.e. PB effort / feel sick at the end) and your HR averaged for the last 5 mins will be about 90% of HR Max.
Alternatively go by feel - you should be able to comfortably maintain a 3 in / 3 out breathing pattern and hold a normal conversation at 'easy / zone 2' pace. You'll have to move to 2 in / 2 out with conversation in short sentences at tempo pace, then 1 in / 1 out with only short expletives possible at threshold
Some watches will work out your LT pace for you during normal workouts and derive your HR zones from that, but don't believe that the 55 does this unfortunately
smn159 said:
First off disregard 220- age completely. While it might hold at a population level there is huge variation in individuals.
Sounds like your HR zones are set wrong as there is no way you could sustain all of your runs in zone 5. There are various methods online that involve running hard up hills to establish your HR Max, or you could race a 5k hard (i.e. PB effort / feel sick at the end) and your HR averaged for the last 5 mins will be about 90% of HR Max.
Alternatively go by feel - you should be able to comfortably maintain a 3 in / 3 out breathing pattern and hold a normal conversation at 'easy / zone 2' pace. You'll have to move to 2 in / 2 out with conversation in short sentences at tempo pace, then 1 in / 1 out with only short expletives possible at threshold
Some watches will work out your LT pace for you during normal workouts and derive your HR zones from that, but don't believe that the 55 does this unfortunately
This is really good advice. The other point to bear in mind is that the Forerunner won’t be very good in terms of picking up your heart rate in any case. If you want a more accurate reading, consider getting a heart rate monitor (Garmin do one for about 40 quid) you can pair to the Forerunner.Sounds like your HR zones are set wrong as there is no way you could sustain all of your runs in zone 5. There are various methods online that involve running hard up hills to establish your HR Max, or you could race a 5k hard (i.e. PB effort / feel sick at the end) and your HR averaged for the last 5 mins will be about 90% of HR Max.
Alternatively go by feel - you should be able to comfortably maintain a 3 in / 3 out breathing pattern and hold a normal conversation at 'easy / zone 2' pace. You'll have to move to 2 in / 2 out with conversation in short sentences at tempo pace, then 1 in / 1 out with only short expletives possible at threshold
Some watches will work out your LT pace for you during normal workouts and derive your HR zones from that, but don't believe that the 55 does this unfortunately
Don’t worry, you’re not going to keel over!
Thanks
Rob
downthepub said:
I now know where to concentrate training for New York. My buddy reckoned I needed more electrolytes rather than water on course. His time? 3 hours and 43 seconds. Those 43 seconds are really pissing him off!
Nice job ! Watch out for the last 3-4 miles on the NYC marathon, it’s a long steady uphill grind … and the crowds are epic and push you to run a little too fast in the first half.Midlands Fun Run (now called Sutton Fun Run I think) in Sutton Coldfield for me today. Really great undulating 8.5 mile course around the park and some of the town. It’s usually well supported but today was especially so with pretty much most of the course having spectators on it.
I managed it in 1:06:33 knocking 3 minutes off my PB which I’m over the moon with considering the start was 11:00am and coincided perfectly with the sun coming out to cook everyone for the full duration of the race. Think I have a sub 1 hour in me if I lose some weight and can get some proper training in without injuries which have hindered me somewhat for the past 6 months.
I managed it in 1:06:33 knocking 3 minutes off my PB which I’m over the moon with considering the start was 11:00am and coincided perfectly with the sun coming out to cook everyone for the full duration of the race. Think I have a sub 1 hour in me if I lose some weight and can get some proper training in without injuries which have hindered me somewhat for the past 6 months.
Thanks guys for the suggestions on HR.
My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
Fusss said:
Thanks guys for the suggestions on HR.
My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
Wrist or chest strap? I'd try and borrow a chest strap if you're using your wrist sensor. May be the issue.My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
Smitters said:
Wrist or chest strap? I'd try and borrow a chest strap if you're using your wrist sensor. May be the issue.
I don't own a chest strap, only using the wrist sensor on the Forerunner.What's the best inexpensive but decent chest strap to get that can link to the forerunner to override the wrist readings?
Fusss said:
Thanks guys for the suggestions on HR.
My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
It's probably not reading high at all, it's just that your HR zones are set incorrectly (although def check it with a chest strap as above). My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
Could you hold an easy conversation during your 5k without feeling out of breath? if what was your HR?
Now assume that HR is 70% of your max and work out your new max HR.
Now go into your Garmin settings and set your new Max HR and ask it to set your HR zones based on % HR Max.
This should set your zones close enough for training - test them by running in your new zones to see how they feel in terms of breathing and conversation ability. Adjust your HR Max (or individual zones) accordingly.
My HR zones on Garmin are set as 183 max which is the 220 minus age calculation and then it's set by percentages, so in theory they are set correctly.
I just struggle to see how I am constantly running for over an hour with a HR of over 180. I'd be on the floor.
Yeah on my easy runs it is easy, not pushing at all. Still shows max zone for the whole thing with an average of approx 175-180.
I just struggle to see how I am constantly running for over an hour with a HR of over 180. I'd be on the floor.
Yeah on my easy runs it is easy, not pushing at all. Still shows max zone for the whole thing with an average of approx 175-180.
Fusss said:
Thanks guys for the suggestions on HR.
My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
There's a massive variability in people's heart rates, the physio I see used to work in the NHS referrals. Apparently the cardio teams would roll their eyes when another runner worried about high heart rates would come in - unless you have any other symptoms like out of breath walking up the stairs, dizzy after running, etc. it's usually just how your heart works.My resting HR is about 45 on average and I double checked this with the wife's apple watch.
I ran an easy 5k at about 29 mins, felt super comfortable and not hard all, it was 90% zone red on the FR55. Looked back over all my recent runs for a month, and everything is in red zone.
Might try a run with the apple watch on the other wrist this week and compare the two to check if the FR55 is reading really high or something.
Modern watches are pretty accurate with HR if you're running at a steady pace, it's when your HR suddenly goes up/down that the wrist based ones struggle. In fact if you scroll down to the "GPS & HR Accuracy" section on this page https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/06/garmin-forerun... you'll get some graphs on the FR55 vs chest strap and arm band and it ties up pretty much dead on.
Not sure this pic will link from that page but I'll give it a go
A longer warm-up helped me get my HR down a bit, it seems when you start running your body is going "Crap, I'm running! Pump all the blood!" but if you sneak up on the running it's not quite as shocked...
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