The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
ajap1979 said:
boholoblanka said:
Morning
Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Too many Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Asics GlideRide 3
Saucony Endorphin Shift
Saucony Ride 15 RunShield
New Balance RC Elite V2
Nike Pegasus Turbo 2
Nike Pegasus Trail 2 GTX
Nike VaporFly 3
Adidas Boston 9's
Adidas Boston 6
Adidas Ultraboost Cld rdy
Nike Pegasus
Nike Pegasus Shield
Nike Flyknit 2
Nike ZoomX
Man maths tells me i should get a another pair of Bostons as they are on sale, despite my cooking the last pair of 11's and having all the above...
fiatpower said:
boholoblanka said:
Morning
Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
2 pairs of roads which I rotate and 1 pair of trails. Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
I have a few pairs and use them all, this is the current rotation
Nike invincible 2 - good for easy runs and when you feel beet up
Nike Pegasus shield- for when it rains, good grip crap midsole imo
Nike peg turbo 2 - decent do it all shoe, not my fav and rarely worn now but only have 150miles in it so wont chuck
Adidas prime x - an amazing shoe imo really versatile, just a bit unstable, I have put 185 miles on mine and they feel great still.
Adidas adios pro 2 (I have 2 pairs) - race shoe, love it
Adizero pro - minimalist session/interval shoe, I wouldnt want to run more then 5km in it!
Reebok float ride 2 - Light daily trainer
Reebok float ride 3 - Sturdy grippy do it all daily trainer
Reebok floatride energy x - great daily trainer with a half plate, I have run a marathon in these and they were great!
reebok
Hoka rocket x (original one) - good shoe for sessions and half marathon racing
Hoka Mach 5 - daily/tempo shoe, really like it
Saucony Kinvara 13 - daily/tempo shoe, prefer the hoka but the saucony is still great (wore them today)
Saucony endorphin shift - crap shoe I put 60 miles in it and left it there!
Asics nova blast winterized - good shoe great midsole, outsole grip is poor.
Nike invincible 2 - good for easy runs and when you feel beet up
Nike Pegasus shield- for when it rains, good grip crap midsole imo
Nike peg turbo 2 - decent do it all shoe, not my fav and rarely worn now but only have 150miles in it so wont chuck
Adidas prime x - an amazing shoe imo really versatile, just a bit unstable, I have put 185 miles on mine and they feel great still.
Adidas adios pro 2 (I have 2 pairs) - race shoe, love it
Adizero pro - minimalist session/interval shoe, I wouldnt want to run more then 5km in it!
Reebok float ride 2 - Light daily trainer
Reebok float ride 3 - Sturdy grippy do it all daily trainer
Reebok floatride energy x - great daily trainer with a half plate, I have run a marathon in these and they were great!
reebok
Hoka rocket x (original one) - good shoe for sessions and half marathon racing
Hoka Mach 5 - daily/tempo shoe, really like it
Saucony Kinvara 13 - daily/tempo shoe, prefer the hoka but the saucony is still great (wore them today)
Saucony endorphin shift - crap shoe I put 60 miles in it and left it there!
Asics nova blast winterized - good shoe great midsole, outsole grip is poor.
Smitters said:
HR vs pace is an interesting one. I side with HR. Both definitely have value and to a large extent, achieve the same thing in training, as long as you approach it with some thought.
To clarify, I don't run to an exact HR, I run within an HR range and I assume those who run to pace are aiming to be within a certain pace range too. Most calculators of such things will give you ranges from easy, tempo, VO2 max, long interval, short interval etc. They typically also calculate HR ranges alongside.
Of everything I've learned about training, two things stick out for me as the most impactful. The first, is consistency trumps everything. The second is the 80/20 rule. 80% of running at Z2/conversational/easy pace and 20% at higher intensity. Especially when considering your average middle-aged fun runner, time for recovery, the ability to be consistent by limiting the hard sessions, and capping stress from exercise when life is also often throwing stress at you makes for a longer running career in my view. If you can run to pace and not trash yourself every session, great, but I think a lot of experienced runners forget what it's like as a relative newbie who finds pace judgement hard. Particularly when you need to be going slower that you want to.
Here's why I use HR.
1) I am variably fit. I chop and change sports a bit depending on my goals, family and injury-state. So my tempo run pace would be different at different times of year, whereas, for the most part, the HR range in which I run tempo stays the same. Ergo, simpler for my little brain. I have a good idea of my max HR at any given time and I track my resting HR.
2) Although I use RPE alongside, I use HR to both slow myself down on a good day to meet the objective of the training plan, and not over-fatigue myself later in the week. I also use it to eyeball my overall state of health. I obviously have pace expectations for each HR after a period of consistent training, so using HR in conjunction with pace allows me to spot fatigue, illness etc. A higher HR for a given pace is a little red flag for me, as is a depressed HR on a harder session. HR for me is thus a holistic tool - it takes into account my existing fatigue, mental and physical state and so on to get me a workout at a particular stress-level. Pace is the by product.
3) I live in and run in a hilly area. Pace is often an irrelevant metric and bears little relation to intensity of the run.
4) Similar to point 1, if I am training for a race, I may have a time goal in mind, but because of that variable fitness, I often get those newbie-gains pace jumps. In a season I might do two 10km races and get a 49 and a 44. A consistent club runner's times might vary by 30 seconds over the season. Therefore, training at race pace, or at paces designed to serve a certain race pace, on day one of a training plan will be impossible. For me, race pace is an outcome of the level of success I have in following a training plan at a set HR range for each type of run.
5) I tend to turn HR off after the first few miles of a race, once I've made sure I'm not going way too fast. I'll very often leave my watch on it's clock face as it gets to a point where, as long as I know how far I have to go, I'm basically racing as fast as I can to the line. Stats are irrelevant at that point.
That's my take on it. But if in doubt, 3x30mins per week, one easy, one middling and one hard. If everyone did that, the whole population would be a lot healthier.
Really interesting post, thanks for taking the time!To clarify, I don't run to an exact HR, I run within an HR range and I assume those who run to pace are aiming to be within a certain pace range too. Most calculators of such things will give you ranges from easy, tempo, VO2 max, long interval, short interval etc. They typically also calculate HR ranges alongside.
Of everything I've learned about training, two things stick out for me as the most impactful. The first, is consistency trumps everything. The second is the 80/20 rule. 80% of running at Z2/conversational/easy pace and 20% at higher intensity. Especially when considering your average middle-aged fun runner, time for recovery, the ability to be consistent by limiting the hard sessions, and capping stress from exercise when life is also often throwing stress at you makes for a longer running career in my view. If you can run to pace and not trash yourself every session, great, but I think a lot of experienced runners forget what it's like as a relative newbie who finds pace judgement hard. Particularly when you need to be going slower that you want to.
Here's why I use HR.
1) I am variably fit. I chop and change sports a bit depending on my goals, family and injury-state. So my tempo run pace would be different at different times of year, whereas, for the most part, the HR range in which I run tempo stays the same. Ergo, simpler for my little brain. I have a good idea of my max HR at any given time and I track my resting HR.
2) Although I use RPE alongside, I use HR to both slow myself down on a good day to meet the objective of the training plan, and not over-fatigue myself later in the week. I also use it to eyeball my overall state of health. I obviously have pace expectations for each HR after a period of consistent training, so using HR in conjunction with pace allows me to spot fatigue, illness etc. A higher HR for a given pace is a little red flag for me, as is a depressed HR on a harder session. HR for me is thus a holistic tool - it takes into account my existing fatigue, mental and physical state and so on to get me a workout at a particular stress-level. Pace is the by product.
3) I live in and run in a hilly area. Pace is often an irrelevant metric and bears little relation to intensity of the run.
4) Similar to point 1, if I am training for a race, I may have a time goal in mind, but because of that variable fitness, I often get those newbie-gains pace jumps. In a season I might do two 10km races and get a 49 and a 44. A consistent club runner's times might vary by 30 seconds over the season. Therefore, training at race pace, or at paces designed to serve a certain race pace, on day one of a training plan will be impossible. For me, race pace is an outcome of the level of success I have in following a training plan at a set HR range for each type of run.
5) I tend to turn HR off after the first few miles of a race, once I've made sure I'm not going way too fast. I'll very often leave my watch on it's clock face as it gets to a point where, as long as I know how far I have to go, I'm basically racing as fast as I can to the line. Stats are irrelevant at that point.
That's my take on it. But if in doubt, 3x30mins per week, one easy, one middling and one hard. If everyone did that, the whole population would be a lot healthier.
Altra Olympus 4 trail - really like these, sometimes use them on road but they're quite heavy
Altra Rivera 3 - confortabile, everyday shoe
Altra Vanish Carbon - long distance race, not that durable (like most carbon race shoes)
Brooks Ghost 14 - comfy slow run shoes
On Cloudflow - not that keen but use them occasionally
Salomon Trail Shoes - pretty much retired in favour of the Altras but still get the occasional outing when it's really muddy.
Altras are zero drop with wide toe boxes which suit me well, but you do need to transition to them carefully if you're used to high drop shoes as they can put more strain on the calfs
Altra Rivera 3 - confortabile, everyday shoe
Altra Vanish Carbon - long distance race, not that durable (like most carbon race shoes)
Brooks Ghost 14 - comfy slow run shoes
On Cloudflow - not that keen but use them occasionally
Salomon Trail Shoes - pretty much retired in favour of the Altras but still get the occasional outing when it's really muddy.
Altras are zero drop with wide toe boxes which suit me well, but you do need to transition to them carefully if you're used to high drop shoes as they can put more strain on the calfs
Been lurking for a while, but have been poorly training for this event on Sunday:
https://www.madbullevents.com/events-1/race-the-tr...
I'm hoping the weather will cool off slightly, which it looks to be doing.
Anyone else going?
https://www.madbullevents.com/events-1/race-the-tr...
I'm hoping the weather will cool off slightly, which it looks to be doing.
Anyone else going?
boholoblanka said:
ajap1979 said:
boholoblanka said:
Morning
Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Too many Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Asics GlideRide 3
Saucony Endorphin Shift
Saucony Ride 15 RunShield
New Balance RC Elite V2
Nike Pegasus Turbo 2
Nike Pegasus Trail 2 GTX
Nike VaporFly 3
Adidas Boston 9's
Adidas Boston 6
Adidas Ultraboost Cld rdy
Nike Pegasus
Nike Pegasus Shield
Nike Flyknit 2
Nike ZoomX
Man maths tells me i should get a another pair of Bostons as they are on sale, despite my cooking the last pair of 11's and having all the above...
Nike Pegasus 35 Turbo
Nike ZoomX Invincible
Nike Alphafly (well used and outgrown by my son)
Nike Alphafly OG (unused)
Nike Tempo Next% - sole tore after 100km or so exchanged for the above
Scott Supertrac Ultra RC
Saucony Peregrine 12 (unused)
ASICS Cumulus 20
ASICS Nimbus 20
ASICS Hyperspeed 5
Adidas Ultra Boost (original!)
Adidas Adizero RC4
Adidas Boston 6
I’d say Adidas are my favourite - did huge miles in Supernova, Solar Boost, original Boost. Nike tend to aggravate my achilles, apart from Alphafly which really put you on your toes. Again my Boston 6 are great when my Achilles is niggling, but probably don’t have many miles left in them…
I’m always looking out for ‘workhorse’ shoes for steady miles on light gravel cycle paths (very little actual tarmac). Not impressed with my ASICS, very rigid and clumpy and I much preferred my even older Cumulus (which again did massive miles including a marathon).
joshcowin said:
Really interesting post, thanks for taking the time!
You're welcome. It's never black and white, but I did remember when gasping out on a run lat week that HR can be literally or metaphorically a life saver if you arrive at a marathon and find it's 30 degrees C too. I would wager that running to HR and not pace would save the race finish for most.But, indeed, it's a bit of both in reality. I need to know an expected pace to understand if the HR is sensible or not.
In unrelated news, I took delivery of a treadmill on Saturday. My company allows us £800 wellness allowance, which can be spent on a variety of things. I blew it all in one go on a JTX Sprint 5 https://www.jtxfitness.com/jtx-sprint5-home-treadm... which came well rated, and as I'm short of leg, the slightly smaller deck than some shouldn't be an issue. I'm excited. The guys who delivered it less so when they had to carry the 90kg box 150m. I tipped them in ice cold diet cokes. I should not that my 75 year old father and I made considerably less fuss when we moved it though.
boholoblanka said:
Morning
Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Brooks Ghost 14 - general training but I find them a bit too hot and heavyQuick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Saucony Ride 15 - quicker training / shorter distances
Brooks Cascadia 16 - trail shoes for when it's muddy or I'll be on sharp stones
Merrell Trail Glove 6 - barefoot / lightweight shoes with a bit of grip (I prefer barefoot shoes offroad if possible)
Merrell Bare Access - barefoot / lightweight shoes with less grip (mainly for grass parkruns!)
cslwannabe said:
boholoblanka said:
ajap1979 said:
boholoblanka said:
Morning
Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Too many Quick one: how many pairs of runners have you got that you actively use for running?
Asics GlideRide 3
Saucony Endorphin Shift
Saucony Ride 15 RunShield
New Balance RC Elite V2
Nike Pegasus Turbo 2
Nike Pegasus Trail 2 GTX
Nike VaporFly 3
Adidas Boston 9's
Adidas Boston 6
Adidas Ultraboost Cld rdy
Nike Pegasus
Nike Pegasus Shield
Nike Flyknit 2
Nike ZoomX
Man maths tells me i should get a another pair of Bostons as they are on sale, despite my cooking the last pair of 11's and having all the above...
Nike Pegasus 35 Turbo
Nike ZoomX Invincible
Nike Alphafly (well used and outgrown by my son)
Nike Alphafly OG (unused)
Nike Tempo Next% - sole tore after 100km or so exchanged for the above
Scott Supertrac Ultra RC
Saucony Peregrine 12 (unused)
ASICS Cumulus 20
ASICS Nimbus 20
ASICS Hyperspeed 5
Adidas Ultra Boost (original!)
Adidas Adizero RC4
Adidas Boston 6
I’d say Adidas are my favourite - did huge miles in Supernova, Solar Boost, original Boost. Nike tend to aggravate my achilles, apart from Alphafly which really put you on your toes. Again my Boston 6 are great when my Achilles is niggling, but probably don’t have many miles left in them…
I’m always looking out for ‘workhorse’ shoes for steady miles on light gravel cycle paths (very little actual tarmac). Not impressed with my ASICS, very rigid and clumpy and I much preferred my even older Cumulus (which again did massive miles including a marathon).
cslwannabe said:
I’m always looking out for ‘workhorse’ shoes for steady miles on light gravel cycle paths (very little actual tarmac). Not impressed with my ASICS, very rigid and clumpy and I much preferred my even older Cumulus (which again did massive miles including a marathon).
ASICS shoes have moved on massively from the ones you have. The GlideRide 3s are fantastic, as are the Novablast 3s. Not ran in Adidas for 15 years, but have just ordered the new Boston 12s. Slightly apprehensive because the fit seems to have came in for some criticism and good lock down is essential for me.
ajap1979 said:
cslwannabe said:
I’m always looking out for ‘workhorse’ shoes for steady miles on light gravel cycle paths (very little actual tarmac). Not impressed with my ASICS, very rigid and clumpy and I much preferred my even older Cumulus (which again did massive miles including a marathon).
ASICS shoes have moved on massively from the ones you have. The GlideRide 3s are fantastic, as are the Novablast 3s. Not ran in Adidas for 15 years, but have just ordered the new Boston 12s. Slightly apprehensive because the fit seems to have came in for some criticism and good lock down is essential for me.
SpydieNut said:
I’ve done that race the train a few years ago - a lovely run, but it was hot then too and despite 2 water stations I was dry by the end of it. Beat the train though 
Enjoy
ETA - turns out it was 2018
A great run though
Well on the 3rd attempt at this, I didn't beat the train...again. So I'll be back next year.Enjoy
ETA - turns out it was 2018
A great run though
Edited by SpydieNut on Thursday 15th June 15:29
Legs didn't have it in them and my thighs were cramping by 14k. Realised I've not been doing the right sort of training, not enough time on the legs, but plenty of elevation.
Anyway....on to the next....
http://www.tringrunningclub.org.uk/ridgewayrun/
wol said:
Well on the 3rd attempt at this, I didn't beat the train...again. So I'll be back next year.
Legs didn't have it in them and my thighs were cramping by 14k. Realised I've not been doing the right sort of training, not enough time on the legs, but plenty of elevation.
Anyway....on to the next....
http://www.tringrunningclub.org.uk/ridgewayrun/
That's local to me and is a great run... the week after Loch Ness so may not make it this year though...Legs didn't have it in them and my thighs were cramping by 14k. Realised I've not been doing the right sort of training, not enough time on the legs, but plenty of elevation.
Anyway....on to the next....
http://www.tringrunningclub.org.uk/ridgewayrun/
wol said:
Well on the 3rd attempt at this, I didn't beat the train...again. So I'll be back next year.
Legs didn't have it in them and my thighs were cramping by 14k. Realised I've not been doing the right sort of training, not enough time on the legs, but plenty of elevation.
Anyway....on to the next....
http://www.tringrunningclub.org.uk/ridgewayrun/
Have a go at beating the horse or the boat for a change.Legs didn't have it in them and my thighs were cramping by 14k. Realised I've not been doing the right sort of training, not enough time on the legs, but plenty of elevation.
Anyway....on to the next....
http://www.tringrunningclub.org.uk/ridgewayrun/
smn159 said:
That's local to me and is a great run... the week after Loch Ness so may not make it this year though...
Me too I have looked at the man vs horse things. That's another level......I'm far too unfit at the moment, but the plan is to try and pull it together over the course of this year and see what I can achieve.
Thinking maybe doing another 1/2 marathon as the furthest on road, with longer off-road if I can.
The problem I find is the amount of time it takes to train. With a small child, house that needs lots of DIY, a project car and work in a small startup company I really don't have time for 4hr training runs!
wol said:
I have looked at the man vs horse things. That's another level......I'm far too unfit at the moment,
You can do it as a 3 person relay. I'm by no means speedy, I was probably managing about a 27-28 minute parkrun when we did Man v Horse, plus I have no hills to train on, but it was honestly the most fun race I've done. Definitely helped being the 3rd person in a fairly slow team so I was one of the last relay runners to set off and was on fresh legs running with people who had already run 14 or 15 miles, but it was such a fun course ranging from hills so steep I was using my hands at some points, to long downhill sections with stunning views.A mate did race the boat a few years back while his mrs went on the boat and they both enjoyed it.
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