The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
MattS5 said:
I would suggest you've not done enough to get round with running alone, and the time you'll take will mean you will be out a long time.
However, if you feel you can do it, then adopt a run walk strategy, but you'll need to do this from the begining to ensure the steady effort can be maintained.
Go off at a slow pace and then maybe run 5 miles, walk a mile, and do this 4 times through out the race.
Personally I'd probably pull out based on just how little training you've done.
I didn't read his post like he was asking if he should run. I also agree with you, he should definitely not run. The 'get me around' program has 3/4 runs a week with 3 or 4 runs which are: 2.5hrs, 3hrs (18miles at slow pace, slightly less for some) x 2 + 1 x 3.5hr run as an absolute minimumHowever, if you feel you can do it, then adopt a run walk strategy, but you'll need to do this from the begining to ensure the steady effort can be maintained.
Go off at a slow pace and then maybe run 5 miles, walk a mile, and do this 4 times through out the race.
Personally I'd probably pull out based on just how little training you've done.
Birdster said:
I'm meant to be running the Brighton marathon this weekend and don't feel fit enough and generally not feeling positive and thinking I should have tried a half marathon for my first event.
Every time I went for a long run (longest of 13 miles) I'd normally have a cold the following week and would be out of running for a week plus. Then I'd find it hard to get back into. This prompted a visit to my GP for a blood test as I was concerned about my immune system. I had quite a few bugs/viruses over winter months and they seemed to come on after a long run when your immune system is weakened. My blood test came back with nothing showing major concern, just that my cholesterol had gone form 3.9 to 5.1, which I want to lower. My blood pressure was 160/85, but comes down to 140/79 after multiple tests. So still higher than ideal. I'm cutting the caffeine out and trying a few other things to bring it down. Mainly the stop thinking I can eat what I want because I've 'done lots of exercise this week'
When it comes to the actual running I am running a 6min k/m average, but the highest I got to last week was 9.5 miles. I could have probably pushed on, but just found it comfortable. I'm a little worried that I kept dropping off of my training plan and I'm thinking if I can't manage more than 13 miles how can I do 26?
December I managed 26 miles, January 67 miles, February 17 miles. So way off training. Every time I felt like I was making progress I was ill and tailed off. Friends seems to think go, but I think this is just setting myself up for failure. Considering I couldn't run more than 30 minutes on a treadmill walking for 3 minutes and then running for 3 minutes I'm proud of what I've managed with regards to fitness, but I have a long way to go.
Sorry for going on. A little bit of rambling to myself and asking for advice at the same time.
I'd agree with the posts above that you should pull out. If you try to get around on the training that you've done there's a high chance of an overuse injury (since your body won't have adapted to the demands of a marathon) which will put you out for a lengthy spell, so I'd give it a miss and train properly for the next one.Every time I went for a long run (longest of 13 miles) I'd normally have a cold the following week and would be out of running for a week plus. Then I'd find it hard to get back into. This prompted a visit to my GP for a blood test as I was concerned about my immune system. I had quite a few bugs/viruses over winter months and they seemed to come on after a long run when your immune system is weakened. My blood test came back with nothing showing major concern, just that my cholesterol had gone form 3.9 to 5.1, which I want to lower. My blood pressure was 160/85, but comes down to 140/79 after multiple tests. So still higher than ideal. I'm cutting the caffeine out and trying a few other things to bring it down. Mainly the stop thinking I can eat what I want because I've 'done lots of exercise this week'
When it comes to the actual running I am running a 6min k/m average, but the highest I got to last week was 9.5 miles. I could have probably pushed on, but just found it comfortable. I'm a little worried that I kept dropping off of my training plan and I'm thinking if I can't manage more than 13 miles how can I do 26?
December I managed 26 miles, January 67 miles, February 17 miles. So way off training. Every time I felt like I was making progress I was ill and tailed off. Friends seems to think go, but I think this is just setting myself up for failure. Considering I couldn't run more than 30 minutes on a treadmill walking for 3 minutes and then running for 3 minutes I'm proud of what I've managed with regards to fitness, but I have a long way to go.
Sorry for going on. A little bit of rambling to myself and asking for advice at the same time.
Edited by Birdster on Tuesday 4th April 10:03
johnwilliams77 said:
MattS5 said:
I would suggest you've not done enough to get round with running alone, and the time you'll take will mean you will be out a long time.
However, if you feel you can do it, then adopt a run walk strategy, but you'll need to do this from the begining to ensure the steady effort can be maintained.
Go off at a slow pace and then maybe run 5 miles, walk a mile, and do this 4 times through out the race.
Personally I'd probably pull out based on just how little training you've done.
I didn't read his post like he was asking if he should run. I also agree with you, he should definitely not run. The 'get me around' program has 3/4 runs a week with 3 or 4 runs which are: 2.5hrs, 3hrs (18miles at slow pace, slightly less for some) x 2 + 1 x 3.5hr run as an absolute minimumHowever, if you feel you can do it, then adopt a run walk strategy, but you'll need to do this from the begining to ensure the steady effort can be maintained.
Go off at a slow pace and then maybe run 5 miles, walk a mile, and do this 4 times through out the race.
Personally I'd probably pull out based on just how little training you've done.
All that said, I've just entered a marathon following my shocking 19km shambles. I have a month, haven't run over 25km this year and am just out to experience the day out. Time isn't an issue as it's trail, so I want a finish, not a PB. Good luck, whatever, but don't beat yourself up. You can only control so many things and there are lots of other races.
dave0010 said:
does anyone else really struggle with morning runs versus afternoon/evening runs? my mornings runs kick my ass!! but afternoon/evening my endurance and pace are way up
I can (and do) wake up at 5:30am and be out of the door running by 5:40. My long runs have all been done this way.Evenings are absolutely terrible for me, even if I leave it 4 hours after a light dinner I just feel like I'm running through treacle, pace is terrible and I have no desire to push through that.
Birdster - I would not recommend that you do the marathon, but if you have committed and want to get round, I would suggest the following that a friend of mine recently did to great effect.
It's the run/walk plan mentioned above, but is 3 1/2 minutes running and 30 seconds walk. Why like this? It puts your focus on the timing as they are so short and 3 1/2 minutes are manageable in terms of running time. The caveat is that you have to do it from the start of the race (as she did) and not start when you get tired. You have to be disciplined and stick to it the whole race. Also start near the back so you don't disrupt others. My friend did 4:40 using this and had a longest run of 13 miles.
It's the run/walk plan mentioned above, but is 3 1/2 minutes running and 30 seconds walk. Why like this? It puts your focus on the timing as they are so short and 3 1/2 minutes are manageable in terms of running time. The caveat is that you have to do it from the start of the race (as she did) and not start when you get tired. You have to be disciplined and stick to it the whole race. Also start near the back so you don't disrupt others. My friend did 4:40 using this and had a longest run of 13 miles.
Birdster said:
I'm meant to be running the Brighton marathon this weekend...
Brighton's Tail End Charlie does 6hr40 pace, so about 15min mile, after that you can continue but are on your own, have to use the pavement, plenty of people get passed by him starting from about 4 mile 4!
If you feel like giving it a go, try walk run at a pace to stay ahead of him, you can always pick up the pace later if you're comfortable. You're near finish at mile 5 and mile 12 and mile 18's not too far back if you drop out!
Whatever you do I'll be ahead of you as I'm driving a lead car again, that's the best way to do a marathon
john2443 said:
Whatever you do I'll be ahead of you as I'm driving a lead car again, that's the best way to do a marathon
When you've done this again, can you share what it is like and the problems you face (if any) I guess it must be hard to concentrate for 2 hours+ and I assume that there are lots of factors to consider.I've only chased a lead car 2-3 times, but I appreciate the job is not as easy as some might think
Thanks all. It's kind of what I was feeling. I just wanted to hear it from others, rather than family and friends trying to encourage me. When we were on holiday I was going for my runs, or using the gym and was so dedicated. I let every set back push me back too far. Just disappointed in myself.
The only thing making me want to do it is myself, but now I know my limits and can start working on running over the summer and perhaps enter some shorter events. I paid for my place and didn't ask for sponsorship. This was to prevent me from feeling pressured/obliged.
The only thing making me want to do it is myself, but now I know my limits and can start working on running over the summer and perhaps enter some shorter events. I paid for my place and didn't ask for sponsorship. This was to prevent me from feeling pressured/obliged.
northandy said:
AndStilliRise said:
Do sprints help with running fast?
The reason why i ask is that over the last few weeks i have been doing quality sessions once or twice a week however have not noticed any increase in running speed? Today i did 6*0.5m with 60sec recovery. HR MAX was 160 and i found with a 60sec recovery HR was 115.
What am i doing wrong?
I joined a club in January and didn't feel I was getting much improvement. I had run a sub 20min parkrun last October but been nowhere since after my first marathon. However after regular sessions I feel a lot quicker now, I have knocked 20 seconds off my best parkrun last Saturday. I think in time you'll find improvement will come The reason why i ask is that over the last few weeks i have been doing quality sessions once or twice a week however have not noticed any increase in running speed? Today i did 6*0.5m with 60sec recovery. HR MAX was 160 and i found with a 60sec recovery HR was 115.
What am i doing wrong?
The jiffle king said:
When you've done this again, can you share what it is like and the problems you face (if any) I guess it must be hard to concentrate for 2 hours+ and I assume that there are lots of factors to consider.
I've only chased a lead car 2-3 times, but I appreciate the job is not as easy as some might think
This is my 4th year, once advance lead, staying ahead of the lead car that had the clock on the roof. The pace there is driven by the runners so the timer car watches them in the mirror and I watch him in my mirror and he waves madly at me if he's catching up! I've only chased a lead car 2-3 times, but I appreciate the job is not as easy as some might think
He could talk to me on the radio but making "Get a move on" waves is quicker!
The police bikes ahead of me who were doing 11.9mph when we were doing 12 realised after a few moments of me blasting the horn, flashing the headlights and waving madly for them to get a f
king move on that it would be helpful if they sped up a bit!The last 2 years and this one is Cavalcade Lead which runs ahead of race lead, I have a load of scooters, Harleys, Minis, sponsors cars etc behind me and have to set the correct pace.
We have a pace sheet with target times at the mile markers, made a bit more complicated as we start at mile 1 and miss out mile 8 cos of a U turn so it's not a steady pace all the way.
Co driver looks after the stopwatch and timesheet and tells me if I'm ahead or behind target, we're aiming to be 10mins/2 miles ahead of the race so a bit like a regularity rally.
You're right that it's harder than you might think, last year my co driver (who's back again this year) thought she was just coming for a gentle drive round town waving to spectators and looking cool. She did do that but was surprised how full on it was concentrating on spotting the mile markers and getting times. We're also listening to radio messages of what mile race lead were at, fine tuning our time based on that and radioing in our times/miles.
I guess it's not actually ever so hard as there's a 10 min buffer but there's the worry that you'll f it up and hold up the race - once someone's said Go to a bunch of Africans, they go with capital G and keep on 5 min miling until they cross the finish line so if something goes wrong you can't stop and work it out!
Last year we got to mile 26 when we peel off left to park up and the runners go right into finish, there were barriers across our route and a marshal pointing right.
I pointed left.
He pointed right.
I stopped and said to co driver Would you mind hopping out my dear and explaining to the gentleman that it would be helpful if he could remove the barriers and allow us to proceed to our parking place.
Well, words to that effect but more concise!
Fortunately she did it and he did what she told him!
I was bricking it because the runners had started racing the last section (14:35 5k) and the back of the cavalcade was a few hundred metres behind me.
Overall is a bloody amazing experience - good fun when I came to the end of a section when we looped round right, right, right, left and met the Minis coming head on doing Italian job swerves in and out of the cones marking the middle of the road. I may have given them a fright by swerving a 4x4 back at them!
We're looking forward to Sunday
Challo said:
northandy said:
AndStilliRise said:
Do sprints help with running fast?
The reason why i ask is that over the last few weeks i have been doing quality sessions once or twice a week however have not noticed any increase in running speed? Today i did 6*0.5m with 60sec recovery. HR MAX was 160 and i found with a 60sec recovery HR was 115.
What am i doing wrong?
I joined a club in January and didn't feel I was getting much improvement. I had run a sub 20min parkrun last October but been nowhere since after my first marathon. However after regular sessions I feel a lot quicker now, I have knocked 20 seconds off my best parkrun last Saturday. I think in time you'll find improvement will come The reason why i ask is that over the last few weeks i have been doing quality sessions once or twice a week however have not noticed any increase in running speed? Today i did 6*0.5m with 60sec recovery. HR MAX was 160 and i found with a 60sec recovery HR was 115.
What am i doing wrong?
I like the McMillan website a lot, as it explains all the various sessions clearly. Two general possibilities are:
A tempo run - Challenges your threshold between easy and hard. Usually 10 to 40 minutes. Effort is medium. Comfortably hard running. Used once every seven to fourteen days as a marathon approaches to improve lactate threshold. 30-40 mins is the max for tempo runs. Any more and the effort will be too hard, like a race, or you're not running hard enough, since you can sustain it. Session would be 2km/10 min WU, 10-30 mins at tempo, 2km/10min CD at 80-85% of your HR reserve (Polar's description of HR reserve - http://support.polar.com/uk-en/support/heart_rate_...
400m repeats - 4 x to 10 x 400m per session - Improves ability to run fast, maximises oxygen delivery to the muscles and increases ability to remove lactic acid. Develops mental toughness when facing severe fatigue. 2km WU, 4 -10 x 400m per session with 200m jog recoveries, min 1km CD. Hard effort at 90-100% of HR reserve
Woefully unprepared (3 runs in a month) for today, but had an amazing time running the Maverick Dorset Long Race. 22k, 1800ft of climbs! I took it easy and stopped to take lots of photos, took me 3:25. The winner was an incredible 1:33 (with 2nd 15 seconds behind). I can't even process that on a course that tough.
dave0010 said:
Does anyone have a link to site with a good marathon training program on it. Now I'm over my initial stage of getting my legs used to turning over I'd like to bring some real structure into my training. I just have no idea where to start now as this will be my first Marathon.
http://rw.runnersworld.com/training-plan-finder/marathon-training-plans.htmlI have run four marathons, I am nothing special - clock in over four hours so not a racing snake.
Overall I wouldn't worry to much about missing the odd run here or there, what is critical and UNSKIPPABLE, is to do a 18m 20m and 22m in weeks T-5, T-4 and T-3. If you do those, and chuck a few 5k recovery runs and 10k at more than race pace, you will be fine.
The post above with a longest run of 13m before a marathon is right to pull out. It will be agony.
Oh and one Gel every 10K - water in between is what works for me.
Any Tailwind users here? Bit of a revelation using it for my 3+ hour trail race yesterday in warm conditions. Got through 1.5l of water with two sticks of Tailwind and felt great after, no headache (which I've always got after a long run) and not hungry either.
Stomach was absolutely fine, it tasted good even when warm and it went down very easily (the naked version is pretty much like drinking water).
I hate gels with a passion so very pleased I've found an alternative.
Stomach was absolutely fine, it tasted good even when warm and it went down very easily (the naked version is pretty much like drinking water).
I hate gels with a passion so very pleased I've found an alternative.
ukaskew said:
Any Tailwind users here? Bit of a revelation using it for my 3+ hour trail race yesterday in warm conditions. Got through 1.5l of water with two sticks of Tailwind and felt great after, no headache (which I've always got after a long run) and not hungry either.
Stomach was absolutely fine, it tasted good even when warm and it went down very easily (the naked version is pretty much like drinking water).
I hate gels with a passion so very pleased I've found an alternative.
No but I think I'll give it a try. Glad you found something.Stomach was absolutely fine, it tasted good even when warm and it went down very easily (the naked version is pretty much like drinking water).
I hate gels with a passion so very pleased I've found an alternative.
I bought really expensive GU gels and they're bloody disgusting just like all the others I've tried
KTF said:
Looks like it was very hot at the Brighton Marathon today and times suffered as a result. A lot of people from our club who have been really strong in training have posted poor (in relative terms) times due to the temperature.
Aye, a friend of mine has flown in from Hong Kong to do the Brighton Marathon with the hope of cooler temps and less humidity. He should still fare reasonably well, arriving slightly more acclimatised than majority of poor native Brits!Did a local 10k this morning, which was pretty torturous in the second half when the temps rose. Most people's times suffered, especially as we all took off like it was a good 10 degrees cooler. Wanted to skim sub-40, but finished in 40:15 due to lack of recent training due to injury, and running solo for the second half. Work to be done!
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