The Running Thread Vol 2

[andy_s]

Tailwind - my wife started using it a while ago and she likes it (i.e. there is little to dislike) and although I can see the logic behind combining calories with water it just becomes a bit of a hassle on longer events for me. I do like a packet of Rego & cold burn water towards the end of the day though.

Electrolytes - having said the above, I've done 4 big hot climate races and in those circumstances I did consciously manage my electrolytes combined in the water - the MdS (French) approach is to make you eat lots of salt tabs for when the electrolyte gets too baulk-y to drink.

GPS - the fenix3 has about 24hrs battery life, the new (and very expensive) model has 75hrs on Ultratrac mode I think. I'm looking for another myself, I'd be quite happy with minimum functionality - grid ref, and load / visualise a route basically, but as everything has so many bells and whistles you have to pay a small fortune to get the extended battery life in something newer over something simple like a 401 which is so old it can only manage about 17 hours...

Just had news I'm sweeping on the Glen Lyon Ultra next month, so may have a chance to improve on last years time...!

[feef]

Smitters said:

The jiffle king said:

Totally right and I forgot to mention that. In very hot climates, it's the electrolytes which make the difference

I was listening to one of Ian Corless' podcasts and they were discussing the links between identified cases of hyponatremia and the big push to drink drink drink in marathons, and if it was linked to marketing. It also got quite scientific, regards the osmosis through linings of this and that and how when suffering, if you're not careful, you can make it worse, not better, plus how the symptoms can be misinterpreted as, for example, heat-stroke and dehydration, which obviously making things much worse. It struck a chord as I've historically been a big drinker in events (hic!) and had a few incidents when I've felt pretty sick in my stomach. In retrospect, it could well have been salt-imbalance and in every case I made it worse, not better by not realizing this.

I totally subscribe to your prep in the preceding days. I've found my long runs to me noticeably easier on quite low volumes of fluid - 750ml for 18 miles/three hours this weekend in 20 degrees C - because I planned for it and was consciously hydrating 24 hours beforehand.

Theres quite a lot of research to support the idea that the push for hydrate-hydrate-hydrate has come from marketing more than medical origins.

Prof Tim Noakes was one of the first to comment on it, and it's touched on in this article in the BJSM

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/47/11/663

He also re-evaluted the data from a Gatorade funded study with some interesting results
it's discussed here: http://sweatscience.com/electrolytes-and-overdrink...
and the full article is here (but requires a paid subscription to the BJSM for the full content) : http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/45/6/475

In a nutshell, however, he found that with electrolyte drinks the volume of electrolyte lost due to exercise was relatively insignificant in terms of health.
He also discovered that if you DID lose enough electrolytes to affect your health, you'd likely be dead due to dehydration before you reached that point.
On top of that, if it's assumed that you somehow did survive the effects of dehydration, if you then attempted to replenish your electrolytes with these drinks, then the quantity absorbed from these drinks is so small that you'd then likely die of hyponatremia/overhydration before your electrolyte levels were sufficiently raised.
In talking to some athletes I know (mainly cyclists), one of their anecdotal indicators for sodium loss was that their sweat was far less salty after a long ride than it was at the beginning, so from that they assumed sodium loss. What is actually happening is that there's a salt accumulation in our pores, even when not exercising, from our natural perspiration and so as that's flushed out at the start of exercise it's noticeably more salty than at the end when the pores have been well flushed.

If any of my understanding or interpretations of these articles is flawed, I'd be interested in a decent discussion. I find many are very closed minded to this sort of stuff.

Edited by feef on Thursday 13th April 11:09

[bigandclever]

Maybe it's unnecessary but I tend to add a sachet of Dioralyte every now and again to my water on long runs. Seems to work for me.

[Smitters]

I think that it's whatever works - it certainly seems that adding too much liquid is easier and more harmful than not drinking enough salts. Bodies are quite clever really. If you're stopping every couple of miles and peeing clear, you should probably reduce consumption a little. Straw coloured is good. Fanta is not so good. Nothing at all for hours is also not so good. Just remember if you're wearing yellow tinted sunnies - that can give you a scare!

[john2443]

KTF said:

Looks like it was very hot at the Brighton Marathon today and times suffered as a result. A lot of people from our club who have been really strong in training have posted poor (in relative terms) times due to the temperature.

It was quite hot, although if it had been later in the year when everyone was used to running in the heat it might not have felt so bad - everyone's been training in the cold and suddenly had to strip off this week and race. While the runners were complaining about the heat, I was shivering when I parked the lead car - I just had a T on and couldn't stop to put a jacket on but needed the windows open. I realised now that I could have put the heater on, but didn't think about it then, was too busy! I think the combination of stress and wind blowing past cooled me off, so a bit later I was walking down the prom in a hoodie while everyone else was in Ts and shorts!

Water shortages later on, we were driving more in early afternoon, I wonder if people were over drinking in panic due to heat as well as pouring on their heads.

The best piece of abuse shouted at me while driving was 'Get off your phone, it's illegal'...she obviously didn't notice I was driving on the wrong side of the road at the time and had just driven the wrong way down a one way street and through red traffic lights. (On the race route so the roads were closed)

[The jiffle king]

I think its the temperature change which is the main challenge. I'm much more used to running in 25C like I did last night so it does not impact me as much, but the main thing for me is to be constantly hydrated. I did 12.7 last night in the heat and drank 1 litre in total on the run but our pace was a little slower than usual as we had a Boston runner tapering, as well as me and 1 other having a race on Saturday.
Runners where I live always walk around with a bottle of water in daily life and there are water fountains and toilets at any shopping place/park/place of interest, so its easy to keep fluid levels up.
Going to be 29C when I go for my 5 miler later so am going to take it slower and have already taken in lots of fluid and a salt tablet

[Jordan210]

Been to see a physio today. No pulls or damage to muscles luckily. Just tight calfs and IT band.

He told me it's most probably been caused by my shoes as the arch support isn't doing it's job anymore. So should replace them.

So looks like I'm gona have to brake the rules and wear a new pair of shoes for the marathon. Have to panic buy a new pair of asics and hope they come before Monday !

Edited by Jordan210 on Thursday 13th April 19:03

[HenrysDad]

Just joined the PH Strava group and am doing my 1st marathon in London next weekend.

My training has been intermittent due to niggling injuries, but hopefully I'll get round in sub 4.5 hours.

[john2443]

Did the Good Good Friday Friday run today (used to be the Good Friday run every Friday but now it's only once a year hence cumulative name!)

Jog 6k Brighton Marina to Saltdean along the cliff top at the pace of the slowest then race back, did 31.48, particularly seeing as it's hilly and wind blowing the wrong way I was happy with that, 33:47 last year so I'm still getting faster with age (60 this year so I don't think I'll keep getting faster for long!)

Not sure that parkrun will be too quick tomorrow after that! Presentations for our 4th birthday beforehand so no chance to warm up, will probably find someone I can pace to 26/27 mins and just enjoy it.

[The jiffle king]

Ran the Atlanta Track Club Singleton 10k today which was not exactly flat with 305ft of elevation. (Think 90-100m of vertical climb) It was a 2 lap course and I went through 5k a little bit quickly, but held on for 4th overall in 36:32 which is my 2nd best ever so very pleased. Got a nice Gong for being 1st Masters as well, and now need to go and see the horse for a few 100m sprints this afternoon

I did buy the Faster road racing book that someone on here recommended and it arrived yesterday so looking forward to seeing the schedules

Edited by The jiffle king on Saturday 15th April 16:32

[MattS5]

Jordan210 said:

Been to see a physio today. No pulls or damage to muscles luckily. Just tight calfs and IT band.

He told me it's most probably been caused by my shoes as the arch support isn't doing it's job anymore. So should replace them.

So looks like I'm gona have to brake the rules and wear a new pair of shoes for the marathon. Have to panic buy a new pair of asics and hope they come before Monday !

Edited by Jordan210 on Thursday 13th April 19:03

l

Get a like for like pair and you'll probably get away with it.

[anonymous-user]

@56 the times have started to slip . Rarely under 20 mins for 5k or 1.30 for a half. But i'm a few pounds heavier than 2 years ago when was able to do a 19 5k or 1.26 half marathon.
Will lose those 5lbs by the summer & get back to where I was . Added incentive of new age category in some races.
My aim is to hit sub 20 5k when 60. A bit slower than when aged 20 but a good target.

[Jordan210]

MattS5 said:

Get a like for like pair and you'll probably get away with it.

Managed to get a pair delivered yesterday. Same make just newer model. Did a light run in them this morning and feel fine. So will add a few miles on to them over this week.

So fingers crossed.

[The jiffle king]

Jimboka said:

@56 the times have started to slip . Rarely under 20 mins for 5k or 1.30 for a half. But i'm a few pounds heavier than 2 years ago when was able to do a 19 5k or 1.26 half marathon.
Will lose those 5lbs by the summer & get back to where I was . Added incentive of new age category in some races.
My aim is to hit sub 20 5k when 60. A bit slower than when aged 20 but a good target.

They are great times and you put many younger runners to shame. There are many good Vets out there, I saw that Paul Gregory ran sub 60 minutes at over 60 years of age for the Maidenhead Easter 10 on Friday! When you run a lot, you forget how many of the population would love to get close to a 20 minute 5k

[MattS5]

Jordan210 said:

Managed to get a pair delivered yesterday. Same make just newer model. Did a light run in them this morning and feel fine. So will add a few miles on to them over this week.

So fingers crossed.

Even just wearing them round the house should get them broken in a little. As youve bought the same/similar I think you'll be fine.

[anonymous-user]

The jiffle king said:

Jimboka said:

@56 the times have started to slip . Rarely under 20 mins for 5k or 1.30 for a half. But i'm a few pounds heavier than 2 years ago when was able to do a 19 5k or 1.26 half marathon.
Will lose those 5lbs by the summer & get back to where I was . Added incentive of new age category in some races.
My aim is to hit sub 20 5k when 60. A bit slower than when aged 20 but a good target.

They are great times and you put many younger runners to shame. There are many good Vets out there, I saw that Paul Gregory ran sub 60 minutes at over 60 years of age for the Maidenhead Easter 10 on Friday! When you run a lot, you forget how many of the population would love to get close to a 20 minute 5k

A quick google of Paul Gregory, was doing sub 55 10 miles in his 50s, awesome times!

[johnwilliams77]

The jiffle king said:

They are great times and you put many younger runners to shame. There are many good Vets out there, I saw that Paul Gregory ran sub 60 minutes at over 60 years of age for the Maidenhead Easter 10 on Friday! When you run a lot, you forget how many of the population would love to get close to a 20 minute 5k

Including myself. I have never done 5km in sub 20 but I am quite close....maybe this year (I am about a minute off)

[egor110]

johnwilliams77 said:

Including myself. I have never done 5km in sub 20 but I am quite close....maybe this year (I am about a minute off)

My pb is 22.22 however i'm doing a park run on sat and a friend of mine represents the country at duathlons is also doing it.

If this doesn't drag me around in 20 then nothing will .

I've found the whole pb thing is quite a fine tipping point between motivating you and demotivating you.

I run in the quickest group at my club but near the back of it , i know i'm not going to beat the quick guys at races but once i take the pressure off i just enjoy the running .

A friends moved into the next village so the last 2 days i've just showed him around a couple of runs from his front door using little footpaths , cut thrus thru fields that would be hard to find on your own , nobody bothered about times just out having a laugh.

[johnwilliams77]

egor110 said:

My pb is 22.22 however i'm doing a park run on sat and a friend of mine represents the country at duathlons is also doing it.

If this doesn't drag me around in 20 then nothing will .

I've found the whole pb thing is quite a fine tipping point between motivating you and demotivating you.

I run in the quickest group at my club but near the back of it , i know i'm not going to beat the quick guys at races but once i take the pressure off i just enjoy the running .

A friends moved into the next village so the last 2 days i've just showed him around a couple of runs from his front door using little footpaths , cut thrus thru fields that would be hard to find on your own , nobody bothered about times just out having a laugh.

I completely agree. On one hand it's great to see improvement, on the other hand it adds pressure and is much harder on the mind to sustain >170bpm (for example) in terms of absolute enjoyment.

I am at a cross roads in my thinking of focus. I really feel like getting into trail ultra's where there is a much more relaxed attitude about running and much less chat about pace. It's all about getting out, enjoying the countryside, keeping away from cars / pavement. I think that's where I am at, totally chill man.

I finally got myself up to a 50 mile week which was rather boring sometimes on my own...!

[tenohfive]

johnwilliams77 said:

I really feel like getting into trail ultra's where there is a much more relaxed attitude about running and much less chat about pace. It's all about getting out, enjoying the countryside, keeping away from cars / pavement. I think that's where I am at, totally chill man.

I finally got myself up to a 50 mile week which was rather boring sometimes on my own...!

First point: do it. Give it a go. I'm not a road runner, I made the jump to the trails very early on and I still enjoy running on the tarmac but you're spot on about the attitudes. Every ultra I've done I've spent at least half the race nattering with complete strangers when our paces seemed to align for a bit - which really helps the miles slip by.

Second point: tried podcasts?