The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
egor110 said:
80 mpw for a marathon ?
wow that's more than i'd bother doing for a 50k , is there a possibility your over training and loosing your spark ?
I think your right with the overtraining! I do on average about 40miles a week when training, maybe up to 60miles at a push if i throw in a couple back to back long runs!wow that's more than i'd bother doing for a 50k , is there a possibility your over training and loosing your spark ?
I mainly train on the hills though but the same format applies regarding 60-80% easy runs and the others tempo/speed work!
I'm a Sub 3hr marathon, 36min 10k, 17min 5k runner!
Back to running club for the first time in 11 months last night.
Running with others again made me push a little more than I would do on my own, so I managed to do a 10k in just under 54 minutes - that's the furthest I've run in a year, so it's my fastest 10k of the year (OK, 10 minutes slower than my pb, but small victories etc)
Running with others again made me push a little more than I would do on my own, so I managed to do a 10k in just under 54 minutes - that's the furthest I've run in a year, so it's my fastest 10k of the year (OK, 10 minutes slower than my pb, but small victories etc)
AbzST64 said:
I think your right with the overtraining! I do on average about 40miles a week when training, maybe up to 60miles at a push if i throw in a couple back to back long runs!
I mainly train on the hills though but the same format applies regarding 60-80% easy runs and the others tempo/speed work!
I'm a Sub 3hr marathon, 36min 10k, 17min 5k runner!
Impressive times, I think I am a few years away from that sort of pace. How many miles are in your legs / over how many years? I am on my second marathon and currently doing ave 45 mpw as a part of a program. I have ran a total of 1000 miles in my life and all within the last 2 years. I mainly train on the hills though but the same format applies regarding 60-80% easy runs and the others tempo/speed work!
I'm a Sub 3hr marathon, 36min 10k, 17min 5k runner!
johnwilliams77 said:
Impressive times, I think I am a few years away from that sort of pace. How many miles are in your legs / over how many years? I am on my second marathon and currently doing ave 45 mpw as a part of a program. I have ran a total of 1000 miles in my life and all within the last 2 years.
Thanks, i hope to go quicker but focusing on different things at the moment (Glencoe Skyline in 4 weeks).To be honest not long, maybe been back running properly for 3 years. Im 33. Played football till mid 20s then did nothing for 6 odd years and got back into it.
Do around approx 2000 miles a year but over 40,000m elevation gain each year as i run in the hills every day! To be honest that's what has made me quick, i don't really train on flat road etc so when i do it's pretty easy for my legs!
AndStilliRise said:
Generally, it is working on 2 or 3 speed sessions per week, 1 tempo, 1 long and lots of easy running in between, peaking on 80mpw.
I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
Just my 2p, but 2-3 speed sessions a week sounds like too much. You appear to be following a close-to elite level training plan whilst not being an elite - no offence intended. Again, this sounds terribly familiar.I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
If you are paying for this coaching, you need to raise all these issues with your coach so he/she has a clear idea of what you're feeling. If you are not telling your coach everything re nutrition and rest, they may have a false impression of what you can tolerate, though your numbers should be showing warning bells too.
If you have already had this discussion, I would fire your coach and look for a new one. They are your employee at the end of the day. Coaching is incredibly individual. Being qualified at it doesn't mean you're good at it. Again, assess your goals and whether you're missing, meeting or exceeding them. If you're not meeting/exceeding, something needs to change. If you have the discipline to do double days, restrict calorie intake and so on, you have the mental fortitude to improve significantly.
Out of interest, what was the 3x1 mile repeats session called? And what was it's purpose?
' and lots of easy running in between, peaking on 80mpw '
what's the point of the lots of the easy running bit ?
it sounds like you've hired a coach done his routines then make the rest up yourself ?
if you we're training for a ultra where you have to do back to back sessions so you get used to making tired legs run fair enough it would sort of make sense but not for a marathon.
what's the point of the lots of the easy running bit ?
it sounds like you've hired a coach done his routines then make the rest up yourself ?
if you we're training for a ultra where you have to do back to back sessions so you get used to making tired legs run fair enough it would sort of make sense but not for a marathon.
Smitters said:
AndStilliRise said:
Generally, it is working on 2 or 3 speed sessions per week, 1 tempo, 1 long and lots of easy running in between, peaking on 80mpw.
I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
Just my 2p, but 2-3 speed sessions a week sounds like too much. You appear to be following a close-to elite level training plan whilst not being an elite - no offence intended. Again, this sounds terribly familiar.I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
If you are paying for this coaching, you need to raise all these issues with your coach so he/she has a clear idea of what you're feeling. If you are not telling your coach everything re nutrition and rest, they may have a false impression of what you can tolerate, though your numbers should be showing warning bells too.
If you have already had this discussion, I would fire your coach and look for a new one. They are your employee at the end of the day. Coaching is incredibly individual. Being qualified at it doesn't mean you're good at it. Again, assess your goals and whether you're missing, meeting or exceeding them. If you're not meeting/exceeding, something needs to change. If you have the discipline to do double days, restrict calorie intake and so on, you have the mental fortitude to improve significantly.
Out of interest, what was the 3x1 mile repeats session called? And what was it's purpose?
AndStilliRise said:
Smitters said:
AndStilliRise said:
Generally, it is working on 2 or 3 speed sessions per week, 1 tempo, 1 long and lots of easy running in between, peaking on 80mpw.
I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
Just my 2p, but 2-3 speed sessions a week sounds like too much. You appear to be following a close-to elite level training plan whilst not being an elite - no offence intended. Again, this sounds terribly familiar.I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
If you are paying for this coaching, you need to raise all these issues with your coach so he/she has a clear idea of what you're feeling. If you are not telling your coach everything re nutrition and rest, they may have a false impression of what you can tolerate, though your numbers should be showing warning bells too.
If you have already had this discussion, I would fire your coach and look for a new one. They are your employee at the end of the day. Coaching is incredibly individual. Being qualified at it doesn't mean you're good at it. Again, assess your goals and whether you're missing, meeting or exceeding them. If you're not meeting/exceeding, something needs to change. If you have the discipline to do double days, restrict calorie intake and so on, you have the mental fortitude to improve significantly.
Out of interest, what was the 3x1 mile repeats session called? And what was it's purpose?
Carry on, but if you feel the slightest twinges - bin it.
AndStilliRise said:
Smitters said:
AndStilliRise said:
Generally, it is working on 2 or 3 speed sessions per week, 1 tempo, 1 long and lots of easy running in between, peaking on 80mpw.
I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
Just my 2p, but 2-3 speed sessions a week sounds like too much. You appear to be following a close-to elite level training plan whilst not being an elite - no offence intended. Again, this sounds terribly familiar.I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
If you are paying for this coaching, you need to raise all these issues with your coach so he/she has a clear idea of what you're feeling. If you are not telling your coach everything re nutrition and rest, they may have a false impression of what you can tolerate, though your numbers should be showing warning bells too.
If you have already had this discussion, I would fire your coach and look for a new one. They are your employee at the end of the day. Coaching is incredibly individual. Being qualified at it doesn't mean you're good at it. Again, assess your goals and whether you're missing, meeting or exceeding them. If you're not meeting/exceeding, something needs to change. If you have the discipline to do double days, restrict calorie intake and so on, you have the mental fortitude to improve significantly.
Out of interest, what was the 3x1 mile repeats session called? And what was it's purpose?
One thing is for sure, since you're only in week 2 - he will know how you really feel and how well you are resting/eating/recovering.
AbzST64 said:
egor110 said:
80 mpw for a marathon ?
wow that's more than i'd bother doing for a 50k , is there a possibility your over training and loosing your spark ?
I think your right with the overtraining! I do on average about 40miles a week when training, maybe up to 60miles at a push if i throw in a couple back to back long runs!wow that's more than i'd bother doing for a 50k , is there a possibility your over training and loosing your spark ?
I mainly train on the hills though but the same format applies regarding 60-80% easy runs and the others tempo/speed work!
I'm a Sub 3hr marathon, 36min 10k, 17min 5k runner!
80mpw is a lot and your times should be dropping significantly. As an example, I and a friend moved from 30-50mpw and are down in the 36:xx 10k range and I'm in the Vet category, so there must be something not working
As others have said, post up 4 weeks of your training and we might be able to look and help. I do 1 long run, 1 x tempo and sometimes some speedwork. I then run easy miles in-between, at a much slower pace, stretch and eat pretty healthily.
I wonder if you are over-training or not tapering well for races
As others have said, post up 4 weeks of your training and we might be able to look and help. I do 1 long run, 1 x tempo and sometimes some speedwork. I then run easy miles in-between, at a much slower pace, stretch and eat pretty healthily.
I wonder if you are over-training or not tapering well for races
AndStilliRise said:
Thanks man. TBH i am going to stick with it, this is only week 2 and he has promised me results, I have never had to work so hard before and really owe to myself to see the training through. It can as they say only get better!
No worries. Remember, with this intensity, recovery is key. At a minimum I would start taking your HR on waking every day and recording it. It's a simple, free indicator of how you're body is feeling. If you find it falling slowly as training progresses, then stepping up again for a few days consider why.Edited to add my personal experience:
No doubt intensity has benefits. But it's never simple. I trained Nov-June for a July ultra, getting out and doing ever increasing mileage - essentially a massive base building phase that never ended. Any higher efforts were hills, parkruns shoving a buggy and about four to six tempo runs (one a week). My parkrun time dropped from 27.xx to 20.xx over those eight months as I built myself up to a 24 hour race. Just saying... the body is a funny thing.
Edited by Smitters on Wednesday 23 August 15:15
johnwilliams77 said:
AndStilliRise said:
Smitters said:
AndStilliRise said:
Generally, it is working on 2 or 3 speed sessions per week, 1 tempo, 1 long and lots of easy running in between, peaking on 80mpw.
I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
Just my 2p, but 2-3 speed sessions a week sounds like too much. You appear to be following a close-to elite level training plan whilst not being an elite - no offence intended. Again, this sounds terribly familiar.I only get told on the day what needs to be done, otherwise i end up overthinking the weeks effort and rearranging to make it easier for myself!
If you are paying for this coaching, you need to raise all these issues with your coach so he/she has a clear idea of what you're feeling. If you are not telling your coach everything re nutrition and rest, they may have a false impression of what you can tolerate, though your numbers should be showing warning bells too.
If you have already had this discussion, I would fire your coach and look for a new one. They are your employee at the end of the day. Coaching is incredibly individual. Being qualified at it doesn't mean you're good at it. Again, assess your goals and whether you're missing, meeting or exceeding them. If you're not meeting/exceeding, something needs to change. If you have the discipline to do double days, restrict calorie intake and so on, you have the mental fortitude to improve significantly.
Out of interest, what was the 3x1 mile repeats session called? And what was it's purpose?
One thing is for sure, since you're only in week 2 - he will know how you really feel and how well you are resting/eating/recovering.
I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
AbzST64 said:
Depends if his coach is someone he see's weekly or just an 'online' coach who has given him a training plan for what he inputted.
I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
To an extent - you can report what you want in terms of how you're feeling but if you're sharing your progress (speed, HR) data, that will surely tell him quite a lot? (of course, you need to be honest in how you're feeling!)I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
johnwilliams77 said:
AbzST64 said:
Depends if his coach is someone he see's weekly or just an 'online' coach who has given him a training plan for what he inputted.
I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
To an extent - you can report what you want in terms of how you're feeling but if you're sharing your progress (speed, HR) data, that will surely tell him quite a lot? (of course, you need to be honest in how you're feeling!)I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
If your coach has set a speed session , 2 tempo runs and a long slow run but what your actually doing is that plus ' lots of easy running in between' then he doesn't know the whole story does he.
When he thinks your having a cross training day or a rest day the truth is your actually not , your running !
egor110 said:
johnwilliams77 said:
AbzST64 said:
Depends if his coach is someone he see's weekly or just an 'online' coach who has given him a training plan for what he inputted.
I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
To an extent - you can report what you want in terms of how you're feeling but if you're sharing your progress (speed, HR) data, that will surely tell him quite a lot? (of course, you need to be honest in how you're feeling!)I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
If your coach has set a speed session , 2 tempo runs and a long slow run but what your actually doing is that plus ' lots of easy running in between' then he doesn't know the whole story does he.
When he thinks your having a cross training day or a rest day the truth is your actually not , your running !
Once you get the running bug it is hard to try not run fast or have slow/rest days but believe me without these days you will not progress very quickly! As strange as it sounds having these slow runs days etc make you faster! Your body/muscles etc need to recover to become stronger.
egor110 said:
johnwilliams77 said:
AbzST64 said:
Depends if his coach is someone he see's weekly or just an 'online' coach who has given him a training plan for what he inputted.
I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
To an extent - you can report what you want in terms of how you're feeling but if you're sharing your progress (speed, HR) data, that will surely tell him quite a lot? (of course, you need to be honest in how you're feeling!)I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
If your coach has set a speed session , 2 tempo runs and a long slow run but what your actually doing is that plus ' lots of easy running in between' then he doesn't know the whole story does he.
When he thinks your having a cross training day or a rest day the truth is your actually not , your running !
AndStilliRise said:
egor110 said:
johnwilliams77 said:
AbzST64 said:
Depends if his coach is someone he see's weekly or just an 'online' coach who has given him a training plan for what he inputted.
I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
To an extent - you can report what you want in terms of how you're feeling but if you're sharing your progress (speed, HR) data, that will surely tell him quite a lot? (of course, you need to be honest in how you're feeling!)I don't have a coach as such but run with a couple top athletes so they tell what i should/shouldn't be doing and see what i am like weekly...whereas i could go online to Hawkins running and tell them what i want and get a training plan..report to them what i want to report and carry on...!
If your coach has set a speed session , 2 tempo runs and a long slow run but what your actually doing is that plus ' lots of easy running in between' then he doesn't know the whole story does he.
When he thinks your having a cross training day or a rest day the truth is your actually not , your running !
You might as well follow a hal higdon plan for free ?
Your running to much and not allowing your body to recover and instead of getting quicker your getting slower and will end up injured.
egor110 said:
So why bother paying for a coach if you don't bother sticking to the plan ?
You might as well follow a hal higdon plan for free ?
Your running to much and not allowing your body to recover and instead of getting quicker your getting slower and will end up injured.
I think he means: use garmin, training peaks, Strava to record everything rather than 'pay for a coach and ignite him!'You might as well follow a hal higdon plan for free ?
Your running to much and not allowing your body to recover and instead of getting quicker your getting slower and will end up injured.
tenohfive said:
I'm looking forward to this years UTMB (purely as an online spectator, not a participant.) With Kilian, Francois D'haene, Walmsley, Luis Alberto Hernando, Xavier Thevenard et al all taking part there's going to be a lot of talent there and a mix of different approaches to the race. Personally I think it'll be one of the Salomon guys that'll do it, with Kilian the obvious favourite - but Francois has had a strong season too. And if Walmsley does his 'death or glory' routine it should make things interesting.
Anyone else going to be following it?
What about Bryan Sandes or Zach Miller?Anyone else going to be following it?
In the women i think it'll be either caroline chaverot or magdalene boulet.
Anyone fancy a bet/sweepstake and the winner decides what charity the money goes to ? should spice up watching dots move around a map.
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