The Running Thread Vol 2

[Cybertronian]

KTF said:

A great result but that 34s would haunt me for some time...

I made peace with it at mile 23!

Mark-C said:

Really enjoyed the Yorkshire Marathon - what a well organised event! I was aiming for Sub-4 given it was my first marathon in four years. Really chuffed with 3:45:11 but I went through half distance at 1:44:30 (roughly PB pace) but completely tanked at 21 miles. I'm booked into Manchester next April ...

Good work! I love the Yorkshire Marathon and always recommend it to people looking for an autumn race. Much more intimate than London and you don't finish feeling like you've had all your senses assaulted by the crowds!

[northandy]

Cybertronian said:

Thanks, gents! I'm very pleased indeed and knew sub-3 was possible by only the finest of margins. Going by the crude double your half marathon PB and add 10 minutes gives me only 10 seconds of breathing room anyway, so I'll use the next year to get my half marathon down to sub-84, or even sub-83 if planets align.

UpTheIron: you may have seen me in the race pack booklet - I was one of the guys (Andy) they interviewed going for sub-3. Doing some sleuthing, I'm the only one that failed :-(

Bizarrely, I actually find the Yorkshire course conducive to good times for me. I slow comparably less on gentle climbs compared to most, and pancake flat courses, like London, knacker me out due to over-use of the same muscles etc.

Edited by Cybertronian on Sunday 8th October 20:32

I noticed you in the booklet write up... bizarrely I'm in the booklet too as I'm in the photo of the start from 2017 (baldy bloke in a parkrun 50 shirt)

I had a nightmare on Sunday, through half way in 1:42 then developed a pain in my shoulder with every running step that forced me to walk... the last 7 miles... a mind numbing 2:50 second half (to be honest I should have just pulled out) but the other half was at the finish 😊

[Cybertronian]

northandy said:

I noticed you in the booklet write up... bizarrely I'm in the booklet too as I'm in the photo of the start from 2017 (baldy bloke in a parkrun 50 shirt)

I had a nightmare on Sunday, through half way in 1:42 then developed a pain in my shoulder with every running step that forced me to walk... the last 7 miles... a mind numbing 2:50 second half (to be honest I should have just pulled out) but the other half was at the finish ??

Ah! I've just spotted you as well. Fair play for sticking it out. I've just received an email about next year's race... Dare I enter again?

[tenohfive]

RizzoTheRat said:

But no so good if you have some harder surfaces on your route. I find the Speedcross surprisingly good on hard stuff, and shot past a mate in mudclaws on a damp downhill concrete section a while back where he reckoned it felt really slippery and I was having no problems. They've definitely got more grip than the Salomans in the mud though.

ETA: Keep the receipt though, My wife and I both bought speedcross 4's last year and both of us had them split near the little toe. Both replaced with no quibble (Cotswold Outdoor) and not had any trouble with the new ones so might have just been a bad batch.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 9th October 10:22

I've done short stretches of tarmac in Mudclaws and they were fine, but it wasn't wet. And I wouldn't use them for anything with any significant surfaced sections because I'd expect the wear rates to be too high. Whereas with the SC being so cheap I just don't care about wear.

Egor, which Hokas are you referring to? And which Inov8's for that matter? (The two most common are Mudclaws and X-Talon 212's, I'm guessing it's one of them.)

bigandclever said:

This one looks a laugh ... http://cheviotgoat.com/

That does look good, although from what I've heard of the Cheviots conditions underfoot I'd expect that to be a bit of a ball buster race. I'm already racing that weekend down south though; one for next year.

[northandy]

Cybertronian said:

Ah! I've just spotted you as well. Fair play for sticking it out. I've just received an email about next year's race... Dare I enter again?

If I do another I think Manchester or Edinburgh for me, York is handy but that long switchback section drives me insane... Sunday was horrific as I walked a large chunk of that, so the pain was even longer! 😂

[egor110]

tenohfive said:

RizzoTheRat said:

But no so good if you have some harder surfaces on your route. I find the Speedcross surprisingly good on hard stuff, and shot past a mate in mudclaws on a damp downhill concrete section a while back where he reckoned it felt really slippery and I was having no problems. They've definitely got more grip than the Salomans in the mud though.

ETA: Keep the receipt though, My wife and I both bought speedcross 4's last year and both of us had them split near the little toe. Both replaced with no quibble (Cotswold Outdoor) and not had any trouble with the new ones so might have just been a bad batch.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Monday 9th October 10:22

I've done short stretches of tarmac in Mudclaws and they were fine, but it wasn't wet. And I wouldn't use them for anything with any significant surfaced sections because I'd expect the wear rates to be too high. Whereas with the SC being so cheap I just don't care about wear.

Egor, which Hokas are you referring to? And which Inov8's for that matter? (The two most common are Mudclaws and X-Talon 212's, I'm guessing it's one of them.)

bigandclever said:

This one looks a laugh ... http://cheviotgoat.com/

That does look good, although from what I've heard of the Cheviots conditions underfoot I'd expect that to be a bit of a ball buster race. I'm already racing that weekend down south though; one for next year.

I'm using hoka challenger atr off road and cliftons on road and use inov8 roclites 295's ?

Hokas are weird because i have no arch and over pronate yet have been running fine in the hoka cliftons with no orthotics.

The roclites weren't bad on the road either but the challengers did 20 road miles no problem at all.

[tenohfive]

egor110 said:

I'm using hoka challenger atr off road and cliftons on road and use inov8 roclites 295's ?

Hokas are weird because i have no arch and over pronate yet have been running fine in the hoka cliftons with no orthotics.

The roclites weren't bad on the road either but the challengers did 20 road miles no problem at all.

I use Challenger 3 ATR's as my road shoe - I really rate them (about 700km in them so far, albeit two pairs due to a warranty issue.) I'll also use them on trails too and find them a good all rounder. They have got their limits mind - the sole isn't as aggressive as the others spoken about, and they're lethal on wet rock - but I'm glad I've got a pair.

How do the Clifton 3 compare fit wise to the Challengers? I'm considering a pair for road running. Reviews on the 4 seem pretty mixed so hoping I can get a deal on the 3's somewhere if they've got a similar fit.

[egor110]

tenohfive said:

egor110 said:

I'm using hoka challenger atr off road and cliftons on road and use inov8 roclites 295's ?

Hokas are weird because i have no arch and over pronate yet have been running fine in the hoka cliftons with no orthotics.

The roclites weren't bad on the road either but the challengers did 20 road miles no problem at all.

I use Challenger 3 ATR's as my road shoe - I really rate them (about 700km in them so far, albeit two pairs due to a warranty issue.) I'll also use them on trails too and find them a good all rounder. They have got their limits mind - the sole isn't as aggressive as the others spoken about, and they're lethal on wet rock - but I'm glad I've got a pair.

How do the Clifton 3 compare fit wise to the Challengers? I'm considering a pair for road running. Reviews on the 4 seem pretty mixed so hoping I can get a deal on the 3's somewhere if they've got a similar fit.

I think there essentially the same shoe but the challenger has a more aggresive sole for off road .

The cliftons are really comfy slightly more room than the challengers , if you can get them for £59 off sport shoes.com i think there worth a go.

Like i said i've gone from about 2 years of puma ignites ( neutral) with orthotics to hokas without orthotics with no side effects .

Even though there heavier than the puma's i did a 1.34 half in sept wearing them which was quite a surprise .

I've found the challengers a bit st in the mud , insole slid around and folded over into the toe box and lack of grip but for summer trail use totally fine and so comfy.

[RizzoTheRat]

I started getting a bit of an ache on the outside of my foot the other week, think an aching arch but the other side. Usually starts 5-10 mins in to a run or walk and then fades after another 5-10 minutes. I assumed my trainers were getting a bit past it so replaced them with another identical pair, but still get the ache in the new ones. However I did a couple of 5k runs at the weekend in different trainers, and walked quite a lot of miles in other shoes, without the ache at all. So it seems to be related to the trainers, but I'd been using the original trainers for some time with no problems. Any thoughts?

[Cybertronian]

I get this from time to time. Manufacturing tolerances can sometimes mean the same model of shoe can be just different enough that you get on with one pair and not with another. Sometimes a manufacturer will switch to a different supplier for the fabric, rubber etc. Sometimes, it's just sloppy finishing and quality checking.

I had three pairs of Nike Pegasus 32 on the go at the same time last year and one pair always seemed to feel different to the other two. I also had one pair of Adidas Adios Boost 2 and the right shoe was not symmetrical with the left shoe at all.

[andy_s]

tenohfive said:

Two and a half minutes off your PB is a cracking result, well done Cybertronian.

Any of the off-road runners got anything lined up from December time onwards? I'm mooching around looking for some shorter ultras (50-55 km or so, maybe a 50 miler) or hillier marathons to keep me ticking over until I can line up a longer focus races. I'll probably do V3K but that's ages away yet, fancy a few whilst the days are short and cold, wet and windy to keep me honest and avoid fattening up like a Christmas turkey.

Anyone got their eye on anything?

Edited by tenohfive on Sunday 8th October 19:24

A bit out of your neck of the woods but here's the list of the Scottish trail/Ultra runs kindly compiled by Mr MacFarlane:




So much more choice than a few years ago. Only two I've booked so far are the Great Lakeland 3 day and the UltraGB Scotland race. Well, I'll get to the start line at least....

[tenohfive]

Cheers Andy, will have a mooch through. On first impressions The Highland Fling looks interesting, I'm sure I've heard that talked about elsewhere and seems like it's just about hilly enough to justify the trip.

ETA:

It's not on that list, but has anyone done any of the Hardmoors events? I'm debating Hardmoors 55.

Edited by tenohfive on Wednesday 11th October 13:37

[egor110]

tenohfive said:

Cheers Andy, will have a mooch through. On first impressions The Highland Fling looks interesting, I'm sure I've heard that talked about elsewhere and seems like it's just about hilly enough to justify the trip.

Are you only looking up north ?

I'm down in the south west and there's some good ultra runs here over the winter.

[tenohfive]

egor110 said:

Are you only looking up north ?

I'm down in the south west and there's some good ultra runs here over the winter.

No, I live in the south so as long as they take in some hills I'm happy. I'm all ears to ultras down this way with a bit less travel.

[egor110]

tenohfive said:

egor110 said:

Are you only looking up north ?

I'm down in the south west and there's some good ultra runs here over the winter.

No, I live in the south so as long as they take in some hills I'm happy. I'm all ears to ultras down this way with a bit less travel.

dec - there's endurancelifes dorset ultra 33 miles / 5786ft

feb - there's endurancelifes south devon ultra 34 miles / 6099ft
mudcrews arc of attrition race 100 miles from coverack -porthtowan in cornwall

march - there's the cousin jack classic 55k from cape cornwall to st ives by byskvyan events

[Smitters]

Just put together my training plan for the Newport Marathon. I'm equal parts excited and terrified. I've decided to go for it and set my self a fairly lofty goal - sub 3.30. Future plans are Comrades in 2020 and GFA in London en route/2021 (easier as I'll be 40 then), as I'm apparently the worlds unluckiest VLM entrant.

I chose this because I've seen/read about or heard about a few examples where setting very tough goals has translated into significant changes. The theory is that if you change incrementally, you never really eradicate the bad habits, but by forcing yourself to focus on a very difficult goal, you have to analyse every facet, cut the fat and dedicate your time to the good.

3.30 may not be world-on -ire stuff, but with a half mara pb of 1.39.50 ten or more years ago and a parkrun pb of 20.39 in May this year it's going to require some dedication from me. I ought to be able to achieve it according to a couple of running calculators, given the right training. The trick will be getting there uninjured, for which I am extremely prone, and not ill, for which I also seem prone.

I've opted for 16 weeks, plus a three week taper, so I don't technically start until the end of the month, but assuming I'll lose at least one, if not two weeks for some reason, I'm going for it from today.

The first seven weeks are base consolidation, drills and core work. I shall also be trying a run commute for some brain-out time-on-feet. That takes me to a short section of speed work prior to a 7km xc race before Christmas, followed by recovery and some more base and drills, but with some target mara pace sections in alternate long runs.

I'll drop in to bore you/ask advice if things aren't going to plan, as I go.

[johnwilliams77]

Smitters said:

Just put together my training plan for the Newport Marathon. I'm equal parts excited and terrified. I've decided to go for it and set my self a fairly lofty goal - sub 3.30. Future plans are Comrades in 2020 and GFA in London en route/2021 (easier as I'll be 40 then), as I'm apparently the worlds unluckiest VLM entrant.

I chose this because I've seen/read about or heard about a few examples where setting very tough goals has translated into significant changes. The theory is that if you change incrementally, you never really eradicate the bad habits, but by forcing yourself to focus on a very difficult goal, you have to analyse every facet, cut the fat and dedicate your time to the good.

3.30 may not be world-on -ire stuff, but with a half mara pb of 1.39.50 ten or more years ago and a parkrun pb of 20.39 in May this year it's going to require some dedication from me. I ought to be able to achieve it according to a couple of running calculators, given the right training. The trick will be getting there uninjured, for which I am extremely prone, and not ill, for which I also seem prone.

I've opted for 16 weeks, plus a three week taper, so I don't technically start until the end of the month, but assuming I'll lose at least one, if not two weeks for some reason, I'm going for it from today.

The first seven weeks are base consolidation, drills and core work. I shall also be trying a run commute for some brain-out time-on-feet. That takes me to a short section of speed work prior to a 7km xc race before Christmas, followed by recovery and some more base and drills, but with some target mara pace sections in alternate long runs.

I'll drop in to bore you/ask advice if things aren't going to plan, as I go.

For what it's worth, I did a half marathon during my training for a marathon of 1hr 39 (warm conditions) 4 weeks before the marathon, park run PB about 20:45 during my training block.

My marathon time was 3:31 a few weeks ago and was 20mins quicker than my marathon a few months prior. Training averaged about 40-45miles a week in the 8 weeks prior to the marathon and slightly less prior. Happy to provide more detail on training if it might help you.

[egor110]

Have you looked at manchester marathon ?

A load from our club travelled up from somerset and they all came back saying it was a fast route.

3 week taper seems a lot , i've found my best half/marathon times have come off the back of ultra training where i was doing back to back runs sun/mon/tues then 10-13 on a thursday and my taper was the week of the race not doing mid distance thursday run .

I've found having a couple of lazy / low mileage weeks leading up to the race back fired because i just got lazy , but i guess we all work in different ways.

[johnwilliams77]

egor110 said:

Have you looked at manchester marathon ?

A load from our club travelled up from somerset and they all came back saying it was a fast route.

3 week taper seems a lot , i've found my best half/marathon times have come off the back of ultra training where i was doing back to back runs sun/mon/tues then 10-13 on a thursday and my taper was the week of the race not doing mid distance thursday run .

I've found having a couple of lazy / low mileage weeks leading up to the race back fired because i just got lazy , but i guess we all work in different ways.

My trainer who is very experienced also subscribed to this view on tapering and I think I had still done 15-18 miles on the week of the marathon plus 26 on the day. It worked.

[egor110]

johnwilliams77 said:

egor110 said:

Have you looked at manchester marathon ?

A load from our club travelled up from somerset and they all came back saying it was a fast route.

3 week taper seems a lot , i've found my best half/marathon times have come off the back of ultra training where i was doing back to back runs sun/mon/tues then 10-13 on a thursday and my taper was the week of the race not doing mid distance thursday run .

I've found having a couple of lazy / low mileage weeks leading up to the race back fired because i just got lazy , but i guess we all work in different ways.

My trainer who is very experienced also subscribed to this view on tapering and I think I had still done 15-18 miles on the week of the marathon plus 26 on the day. It worked.

Like i said we all work different and there is no hard and fast rule , i know people who never stretch never train up for ultras and still seem to be able to pull it out the bag on race day it would never work for me though.