The Running Thread Vol 2

[Cybertronian]

Smitters said:

HR aside, I'm scheduled for my first run-commute tomorrow. In and out. So naturally, I totally forgot, brought nothing useful today and to add insult to injury, have to work from home on Weds. So I'll be lugging a load of clothes about due to disorganisation, and lugging a laptop six miles home. Wicked. You f'ing tt Smitters.

Good luck with the two-way commute!

If it's any consolation, at least you'll be less likely to forget in the future after this episode?

[tenohfive]

VEA said:

Anyone use either Smashrun or MyZone?

Obviously not related. I like the way Smashrun looks. http://smashrun.com/

http://myzone.org/
My understanding is its a heart rate monitor that is compatible with other deivces/ apps.
A couple of friends have been raving about it recently and as I am now stepping up my training I thought it would be good to upgrade from the TomTom watch I am using at the moment.

I apologise in advance for a) not being able to answer the question, and b) not being that constructive either.

I've no experience of either but love new things. Smashrun - Strava with badges? That's how it seems. Only Strava has badges/challenges/segments too, and a much bigger pool of users. And the in house analytics of either TomTom or Garmin are pretty powerful; I'm not sure what (if anything) more you're getting. And that's without touching on Strava Premium.

MyZone...I don't understand it either. A HRM that's an activity tracker?

For me, the answer is much simpler: decent watch (almost all runners watches include 24/7 HR, activity tracking - and they do running properly too) and a decent HRM. Fancy features like running dynamics optional (Wahoo & Garmin both do this, although only Garmin talks to Garmin watches for RD data.)

I've only cast a cursory look over both the above though, so what is it that you're seeing that appeals?

[johnwilliams77]

tenohfive said:

I apologise in advance for a) not being able to answer the question, and b) not being that constructive either.

I've no experience of either but love new things. Smashrun - Strava with badges? That's how it seems. Only Strava has badges/challenges/segments too, and a much bigger pool of users. And the in house analytics of either TomTom or Garmin are pretty powerful; I'm not sure what (if anything) more you're getting. And that's without touching on Strava Premium.

MyZone...I don't understand it either. A HRM that's an activity tracker?

For me, the answer is much simpler: decent watch (almost all runners watches include 24/7 HR, activity tracking - and they do running properly too) and a decent HRM. Fancy features like running dynamics optional (Wahoo & Garmin both do this, although only Garmin talks to Garmin watches for RD data.)

I've only cast a cursory look over both the above though, so what is it that you're seeing that appeals?

That's what I am wondering too - my garmin 235 has a HR monitor and bluetooth so does everything I could need...

[Smitters]

Two positive updates.

1) The shoes arrived. Right size, right colour. I resisted the urge to wear them today.

2) Run-commute part 1 of 2 complete. Lovely way to start the day, if you ignore the biohazard that is our work shower. Even with a bigger bag than I'd like, it was very pleasant. I may not agree if it's pissing down tonight, but hey ho - so far, an agreeable way to get some mileage in and all paced very easily. I even arrived early enough to stretch properly, have a snack and not have to queue for the biohazard.

[VEA]

tenohfive said:

VEA said:

Acrap.

I apologise in advance for a) not being able to answer the question, and b) not being that constructive either.

I've no experience of either but love new things. Smashrun - Strava with badges? That's how it seems. Only Strava has badges/challenges/segments too, and a much bigger pool of users. And the in house analytics of either TomTom or Garmin are pretty powerful; I'm not sure what (if anything) more you're getting. And that's without touching on Strava Premium.

MyZone...I don't understand it either. A HRM that's an activity tracker?

For me, the answer is much simpler: decent watch (almost all runners watches include 24/7 HR, activity tracking - and they do running properly too) and a decent HRM. Fancy features like running dynamics optional (Wahoo & Garmin both do this, although only Garmin talks to Garmin watches for RD data.)

I've only cast a cursory look over both the above though, so what is it that you're seeing that appeals?

johnwilliams77 said:

That's what I am wondering too - my garmin 235 has a HR monitor and bluetooth so does everything I could need...

You're both absolutely right. Re smash run, I don't know, I just like techy stuff and think it looks cool.

Re Myzone. I was under the impression from reading elsewhere that wrist based HR is not overly accurate, was therefore thinking about getting a chest strap one. This was suggested as it would work with my TomTom watch.

Guess I should get myself a Garmin of some sorts...

[johnwilliams77]

VEA said:

You're both absolutely right. Re smash run, I don't know, I just like techy stuff and think it looks cool.

Re Myzone. I was under the impression from reading elsewhere that wrist based HR is not overly accurate, was therefore thinking about getting a chest strap one. This was suggested as it would work with my TomTom watch.

Guess I should get myself a Garmin of some sorts...

Wrist may not be super accurate but it gives me a good enough idea.

i.e. I can tell my average resting is dropping. I can tell my HR is lower at LR pace. I can see overall improvements which makes sense to my overall fitness improvements. When this is in strava premium you get a good idea of 'fitness and freshness' which is obviously not 100% accurate but 'good enough'. HR is too much faff for me to be worth the extra accuracy (and I understand they're not perfect either, if they're not perfectly clean they can throw errors like the wrist watch can)

[feef]

VEA said:

Re Myzone. I was under the impression from reading elsewhere that wrist based HR is not overly accurate, was therefore thinking about getting a chest strap one. This was suggested as it would work with my TomTom watch.

Guess I should get myself a Garmin of some sorts...

Until recently, I've been using a bluetooth chest strap monitor with my iPhone and logging the runs with Strava.
A couple of weeks ago I got a Suunto Spartan Sport Baro with the wrist HR monitor. The results I'm seeing seem to be in line with the readings I was getting with the chest strap monitor.

I think the issue arises if you are used to wearing your watch very loosely. There are some people I see who wear a watch like a bracelet with it rattling around their wrist, and if you wear a wrist HR monitor like that it won't be reading much. I certainly don't wear my watch tight, but the watch back is in contact with the skin almost all the time.

[tenohfive]

VEA said:

You're both absolutely right. Re smash run, I don't know, I just like techy stuff and think it looks cool.

Re Myzone. I was under the impression from reading elsewhere that wrist based HR is not overly accurate, was therefore thinking about getting a chest strap one. This was suggested as it would work with my TomTom watch.

Guess I should get myself a Garmin of some sorts...

I've always had OHR on my watches but (partly through cycling, where OHR really struggles) I've also used a few different BT and ANT+ HRM's. There's no doubt in my mind - OHR isn't as accurate as a proper chest strap. The only exception being dedicated OHR HRM's such as the Scosche Rhythm.

In terms of 'here and now' accuracy - if they're fitted right, tightly, on the fleshy part of the wrist - you'll get a good reading. And if it changes, it'll recognise the change - but slowly. So for steady paced runs (whatever that pace may be) a watch with OHR is fine. For intervals/hill reps or just undulating terrain where your pace stays the same, it's much slower to pick up the change than a proper chest strap.

Occasionally I'll just rely on OHR on my Garmin 935, but given I have to move the watch up my wrist (to a fleshier point than it naturally sits) and chucking on a chest strap isn't time consuming, I use a chest strap for 90% of my runs.

My advice?

If you're happy with your watch but want HR during intervals etc, get a chest strap that works with it (which for TomTom is a limited number.) But futureproof yourself by getting one that does ANT+ as well in case you go for a different watch manufacturer in future. Double check compatibility, but the Wahoo or Tickr X is what I'd be looking at (and if it helps, I've got the X - it works with the Runner 2/Spark.)

If you're unhappy with your watch, look for one with OHR - it's handy to have regardless. If you're only interested in steady state HR during runs, don't worry about a chest strap. If you are, budget for a chest strap HR too.

Two other things:
Chest straps can spike to start with. If you get this, either lick the strap or look at EKG gel to chuck on to start your run. (After awhile sweat will do the same job.)
Eventually once you've got a feel for where RPE sits with your HR zones, you'll fine yourself using HR less and less. But to start with it's handy to get a feel for it and confirm that you are correct in 'feeling' like you're in Zone 2, for example.

[Smitters]

tenohfive said:

Two other things:
Chest straps can spike to start with. If you get this, either lick the strap or look at EKG gel to chuck on to start your run. (After awhile sweat will do the same job.)
Eventually once you've got a feel for where RPE sits with your HR zones, you'll fine yourself using HR less and less. But to start with it's handy to get a feel for it and confirm that you are correct in 'feeling' like you're in Zone 2, for example.

I wet my strap under the tap, then once it's on, get some water on my hand and wet the skin-strap contact. Not had a spike in months. I also tried EKG gel, left over from a foetal doppler jobbie we had but I found it a bit of a mess and no more successful.

Agree re. RPE and getting to know yourself. In a pinch, I've always equated breathing rate to effort - four footfalls (LRLR) to an in breath and four for an out = an easy run. Maybe a bit quicker than the old chestnut "conversational pace", but still easy. Three and three is tempo, two and two hard efforts, one and one a balls out sprint for the line. And of course, you self-adjust for tiredness, illness etc. because it's your own CV system providing the regulation.

[anonymous-user]

I use the Polar H10 (2017 model) with a TomTom Spark 3 and it generally works fine. There's a slight issue at races where you're penned in at the start and it gets confused with every ones Bluetooth activated watches/phones and won't connect to my watch - but it will always eventually connect a few minutes into the race.

[egor110]

Blisters-

Anyone got any tips ?

I've started getting one on my arch , the only things i've done different is run in hokas without my orthotics so could it be that my arch isn't being supported and is sliding about ?

When i was doing my ultra training i was using pumas on road and inov8's both with orthotics and was banging in some decent mileage , back to back to back runs with no problems what so ever.

Be a shame if it is the hokas because there mega comfy ( bar the blister ) i've experimented with a few different insoles but not sure about sticking orthotics in them as it'll be like wearing high heels.

[johnwilliams77]

egor110 said:

Blisters-

Anyone got any tips ?

I've started getting one on my arch , the only things i've done different is run in hokas without my orthotics so could it be that my arch isn't being supported and is sliding about ?

When i was doing my ultra training i was using pumas on road and inov8's both with orthotics and was banging in some decent mileage , back to back to back runs with no problems what so ever.

Be a shame if it is the hokas because there mega comfy ( bar the blister ) i've experimented with a few different insoles but not sure about sticking orthotics in them as it'll be like wearing high heels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ijf2EYfOYY

[travel is dangerous]

Notice the mention of orthotics in the last post. Has anyone ever had any made for them?

A year on from an ankle sprain I am suffering from a painful posterior tibial tendon, possibly tendonitis, i dunno. it hurt just under the bony bit on the inside of my ankle. Have tried wobble boards, stloads of calf raises, strengthening gluten, all kinds of thing, still get pain from running more than approx 5-10k a week...

I am starting to wonder if there anything fundamental in my gait or whatever that is causing it.

[egor110]

[quote=travel is dangerous]Notice the mention of orthotics in the last post. Has anyone ever had any made for them?

A year on from an ankle sprain I am suffering from a painful posterior tibial tendon, possibly tendonitis, i dunno. it hurt just under the bony bit on the inside of my ankle. Have tried wobble boards, stloads of calf raises, strengthening gluten, all kinds of thing, still get pain from running more than approx 5-10k a week...

I am starting to wonder if there anything fundamental in my gait or whatever that is causing it.[/quote
I had a pair made for me in the mid 2000's and i've used the sole obsession ones where you heat them in the oven to get them soft then stand in them.

I couldn't honestly say there worse than the proper custom made ones , the custom made ones we're a lot harder plastic but the cheaper ones do seem to work .

[RizzoTheRat]

Is it just me or do hills seem shorter at night? My headtorch gives me a good view a few meters ahead but doesn't penetrate all that far. The steepish but relatively short hill on my commute home the last couple of days feels a lot shorter when I can't see the top

[JimmyConwayNW]

Finished work earlier than normal yesterday and went out for a run. No massive aim, set a PR for my 10k time and scraped by in 44mins 50 seconds. My aim was to get to under 45mins by the end of the year. Felt well chuffed to have done that from being a right fatty exactly a year ago where I could not have even thought about doing a 10k run.

Best run in ages, had loads of energy and really enjoyed it.

[The jiffle king]

JimmyConwayNW said:

Finished work earlier than normal yesterday and went out for a run. No massive aim, set a PR for my 10k time and scraped by in 44mins 50 seconds. My aim was to get to under 45mins by the end of the year. Felt well chuffed to have done that from being a right fatty exactly a year ago where I could not have even thought about doing a 10k run.

Best run in ages, had loads of energy and really enjoyed it.

Thats a great time if you are relatively new to running and have been losing weight, then it's really impressive

[Smitters]

Guess whose "tight hamstring" has just been diagnosed as a bulging disc prodding a nerve? No wonder the stretching wasn't helping - it was making it worse through the back bending. FFS.

[ukaskew]

JimmyConwayNW said:

Finished work earlier than normal yesterday and went out for a run. No massive aim, set a PR for my 10k time and scraped by in 44mins 50 seconds. My aim was to get to under 45mins by the end of the year. Felt well chuffed to have done that from being a right fatty exactly a year ago where I could not have even thought about doing a 10k run.

Best run in ages, had loads of energy and really enjoyed it.

Hugely impressive. I think I’m doing it all wrong, as I’ve been running for 18 months now and somehow getting heavier and slower! Within 6 months I was down to a 24min 5k and 50min 10k, I’m now at 27mins and an hour respectively. Put on nearly a stone in that time too. I had to walk some of the 10k as my legs just didn’t have it in them.

I’m a bit all over the place in terms of getting runs in, lucky to average 2 per week quite often due to young family and two jobs. I wonder if losing the speed run (parkrun) is the issue, as I rarely get to do that anymore but did it fairly consistently last year and would always really really push myself.

Seriously demotivating! If it wasn’t for the weight issue too I’d just crack on and enjoy it, I ran a trail 12k yesterday and loved every second of it, paced myself to my current ability and felt I did ok, results come through and I was 285 out of 302!

[smn159]

ukaskew said:

Hugely impressive. I think I’m doing it all wrong, as I’ve been running for 18 months now and somehow getting heavier and slower! Within 6 months I was down to a 24min 5k and 50min 10k, I’m now at 27mins and an hour respectively. Put on nearly a stone in that time too. I had to walk some of the 10k as my legs just didn’t have it in them.

I’m a bit all over the place in terms of getting runs in, lucky to average 2 per week quite often due to young family and two jobs. I wonder if losing the speed run (parkrun) is the issue, as I rarely get to do that anymore but did it fairly consistently last year and would always really really push myself.

Seriously demotivating! If it wasn’t for the weight issue too I’d just crack on and enjoy it, I ran a trail 12k yesterday and loved every second of it, paced myself to my current ability and felt I did ok, results come through and I was 285 out of 302!

Do you tend to do your runs at the same sort of pace? That could be the problem. Stretch to three runs a week if you can and make one a speed session (intervals), one a long slow run and one a hill session. Make your slow runs slow and your speed intervals fast.

Losing the weight will make a big difference as well (obvs)