The Running Thread Vol 2

[zygalski]

Don't worry - I'm 40 minutes for 4.5 miles

[Challo]

yellowjack said:

I've just started running again (again!)...


Joined the PH Strava running club too. I'm decidedly "glacial" when it comes to pace, and I'm 32nd out of 32 runners so far this week. But hey? It's a start!

How do I join the PH Strava club? I tried to go back a few pages but cannot find the details.

[Smitters]

Challo said:

How do I join the PH Strava club? I tried to go back a few pages but cannot find the details.

https://www.strava.com/clubs/pistonheads-running

[Tycho]

Smitters said:

I may have slightly entered the Beacons Ultra in November. I'm 50% excited and 50% wondering what the hell I'm playing at. But I lose motivation in the autumn, so this should keep me moving nicely into Christmas by which time I'll have definitely earned my break! Also no need to chase speed now, which is so often the route to my own destruction. Just get familiar with long walks and walking poles.

Anyone else in, or done it? The course looks "easy" - in that there are only a few major ups, instead of loads of up and down. I feel like the long descent has the potential to ruin many a set of legs. It also looks like a lot is runnable, which actually makes lap two survival hard I think, after a macho-man start.

Looks like a nice course, very nice countryside to run through. I may take a look at this myself when I get the go ahead to get back running from the physio. Hopefully that will be in a few weeks as 6 months with no running is driving me mad.

[Mothersruin]

yellowjack said:

I've just started running again (again!)...


Joined the PH Strava running club too. I'm decidedly "glacial" when it comes to pace, and I'm 32nd out of 32 runners so far this week. But hey? It's a start!

If I recall you're an ex-Osnabruck guy - there just before I was?

[Smitters]

Tycho said:

Looks like a nice course, very nice countryside to run through. I may take a look at this myself when I get the go ahead to get back running from the physio. Hopefully that will be in a few weeks as 6 months with no running is driving me mad.

Agree - I love that area. Done a fair few walks, runs and rides over the years. What's really nice is a one lap recce at a sensible pace is a lovely morning out on the hills without killing the day and gives you all the info you need.

I feel for you on the no-running front. I'm still fighting niggles, but I'm back moving again. Had issues since early November and it's made me a miserable sod for two months, before I woke up and realised I should be doing something else that helps running. I hit the gym and four weeks later, surprise surprise I'm back running because some strength has returned.

[okgo]

Just done another 4.5 miles, 7.3 min miles so getting a bit quicker, running on the fronts of my feet certainly feels faster and easier but I feel like its going to increase my chance of injury when I do it. Quite annoying. Perhaps my shoes are a bit bulky...?

[The jiffle king]

okgo said:

Just done another 4.5 miles, 7.3 min miles so getting a bit quicker, running on the fronts of my feet certainly feels faster and easier but I feel like its going to increase my chance of injury when I do it. Quite annoying. Perhaps my shoes are a bit bulky...?

If you can I would do a run assessment as it will help you choose the right shoes.

[The jiffle king]

A bit cold out there this morning. Did not take the woolly hat off , 2 pairs of gloves, 3 layers on top and it was LLC cold.
Not looking forward to Bramley 20 on Sunday if it's like this

[RC1807]

We've snow on the ground in Luxembourg this week, but trail runnin gin the forest on Wed lunchtime was an absolute treat... fresh snow, loads of other runners out, snow falling = good grip
Plan to get out again today, although it's likely to be quite icy

I'm a long way off my PB times of 5:30/km, set mid 2016, and I've no idea why, but I still keep plugging along, probably 1min/km slower nowadays

zygalski said:

Don't worry - I'm 40 minutes for 4.5 miles

I know running club members that DREAM of 10 mins/mile, so yours isn't too shabby at all!

[Cybertronian]

The jiffle king said:

Not looking forward to Bramley 20 on Sunday if it's like this

Decent race. Will you be racing it or using it as a training run? If you're driving in, try and get there 15-20 mins earlier than you think you'll need to. It was gridlocked trying to get in and park up when I last did it in 2014.

[The jiffle king]

Cybertronian said:

Decent race. Will you be racing it or using it as a training run? If you're driving in, try and get there 15-20 mins earlier than you think you'll need to. It was gridlocked trying to get in and park up when I last did it in 2014.

Thanks for the advice. We are driving there and will get thete early.
I'm helping a friend who is in marathon training so it's his call on the pace. He's changed his mind 6 times already though but t latest plan is 5 x easy ish and then crank it up to marathon pace by mile 17. We'll probably find out on the day

I did do this race in 2009 ish but I don't recall too much as it was my first 20 mile run and I had to be physically helped into the car afterwards.

[TiminYorkshire]

Smitters said:

I may have slightly entered the Beacons Ultra in November. I'm 50% excited and 50% wondering what the hell I'm playing at. But I lose motivation in the autumn, so this should keep me moving nicely into Christmas by which time I'll have definitely earned my break! Also no need to chase speed now, which is so often the route to my own destruction. Just get familiar with long walks and walking poles.

Anyone else in, or done it? The course looks "easy" - in that there are only a few major ups, instead of loads of up and down. I feel like the long descent has the potential to ruin many a set of legs. It also looks like a lot is runnable, which actually makes lap two survival hard I think, after a macho-man start.

I'll be interested on your report, I've done part of that course on a training run in the distant past. Doing two laps will be interesting mentally, the expected vs the unexpected, and the difference in experience 2nd time round, plus doing some in the dark.

I've also enetered my first ultra (Grand Tour of Skiddaw) and am going about preparation, I've done some long distance stuff in the past (Coast to coast over 6 days 192 miles) so think I can manage the distance. However when I was doing the coast to coast (as a personal challenge/for fun) I wasn't trying to hit a specific pace/race, so I'm unsure as what "tactic" to take for an Ultra, race it, run it for fun, run it for fun then push the last third, or just try to survive and get round!

Keep us up to date on your training plan and ultra tips

Edited by TiminYorkshire on Thursday 8th February 10:11

[onedsla]

AndStilliRise said:

Need some help please.

I am keen marathon runner however last Summer/Autumn started training for speed so stopped the running anything over 10k. Got a 19:30/5k in Sept and then from there to now I have been getting slower and slower. To the extent 9mm are now difficult albeit with the expected HR I am really struggling to breathe deeply. Using a peak flow metre my reading's average 250-300 which are similar to my wife who is a non-athletic.

That being said I am still ok on a bike and have loads of gym strength. No idea what is causing me this trouble. This morning I visited the GP (took me a few weeks to admit there is something wrong).

Today I did a 15m zwift ride and a 10k/60min/HR125 on a treadmill. Tomorrow I think I will stick with the treadmill and see if I can push it along a little.

Even the 1500m is an endurance event. Pretty sure I'd beat a fully fit Usain Bolt at that distance by some margin, despite no doing no 'speed' training. My ideal / realistic 5km plan would be along the lines of:
1: 60 mins easy
2: 15 mins wu, 5 x 1200 @ 5km pace (400m jog), 10 mins
3: 50 mins easy
4: 15 mins wu. 12 x 400m 'fast' (mile to 3km pace) with 200m jog recoveries, 10 mins
5: 50 mins easy
6: 60 mins with 3 x 2 miles brisk (around HM pace), 2mins easy running recovery between each
7: 13 - 15 miles slow

I'm not surprised your 5km has slowed down if you've dropped longer running.

Push for a full blood works to see if there are any anomalies.

I've just recovered from a horrible week. Nasty chest infection combined with a busy work week in Bangalore. I somehow lost 2kg, but not in a good way - felt very weak and depleted for several days following. Things came back last night. Tentatively started a tempo run about 4-5s per mile slower than 2 weeks ago, but found it much easier than expected, and ended up completing 10km only 3s slower overall - though did 'cheat' a little by speeding up at the end! Will be looking to increase the distance from next week.

[Smitters]

TiminYorkshire said:

Smitters said:

I may have slightly entered the Beacons Ultra in November. I'm 50% excited and 50% wondering what the hell I'm playing at. But I lose motivation in the autumn, so this should keep me moving nicely into Christmas by which time I'll have definitely earned my break! Also no need to chase speed now, which is so often the route to my own destruction. Just get familiar with long walks and walking poles.

Anyone else in, or done it? The course looks "easy" - in that there are only a few major ups, instead of loads of up and down. I feel like the long descent has the potential to ruin many a set of legs. It also looks like a lot is runnable, which actually makes lap two survival hard I think, after a macho-man start.

I'll be interested on your report, I've done part of that course on a training run in the distant past. Doing two laps will be interesting mentally, the expected vs the unexpected, and the difference in experience 2nd time round, plus doing some in the dark.

I've also enetered my first ultra (Grand Tour of Skiddaw) and am going about preparation, I've done some long distance stuff in the past (Coast to coast over 6 days 192 miles) so think I can manage the distance. However when I was doing the coast to coast (as a personal challenge/for fun) I wasn't trying to hit a specific pace/race, so I'm unsure as what "tactic" to take for an Ultra, race it, run it for fun, run it for fun then push the last third, or just try to survive and get round!

Keep us up to date on your training plan and ultra tips

Edited by TiminYorkshire on Thursday 8th February 10:11

I know about half the route already, which helps I think, and some good youtube videos have got me a bit of recon and in the mood. I shall boldly state (and then whimperingly admit otherwise in late November), but I plan on finishing in daylight/dusk. I'd like to go sub 10, so will be basing my training around five hour lap pace.

About the only sensible advice I can give for your first ultra is unless you want to win it, I'd run it for fun and see where you go. But then who's sensible when entering an ultra? There are good and bad things about being out for so long. You can be in the hole a long time and not really see any escape, which sucks, but you can correct issues (like dehydration) and recover your pace, again, because you've got the time to turn things around. If you do the first km of a five k ten seconds too fast, you might be cooked. The margins are a bit wider on an ultra. Just keep moving forwards...

The ten hours is quite arbitrary - it seems both doable and challenging. It'll be as much down to weather and conditions as my training and prep, so I'll be packing for the full 15... and some rain.

[MattS5]

FunkyNige said:

I do them when brushing my teeth Means I get 4 minutes in a day, no idea how many that is mind!
I've got 2 half marathons booked in for this year (Bungay and Palma) so I've actually taken the advice to slowly increase mileage rather than taking the attitude of just running the longer distances and seeing what happens - after a 10 mile race last year my knees hurt so much I could barely walk...
My weekend 'long' runs have been increasing by 1km each week, 13km yesterday along a very muddy bridlepath (Marriot's Way near Norwich if anyone knows it), pace was terrible as I dodging the mud but I now have a route I can add 500m onto each week so I've got a bit of a plan in mind for this year.

I know it well but run the other end of it, often Aylsham to Reepham and back.
Bungay half, does that follow the same route as the full? A good friend of mine won the full distance last year and he reckons there is a few hills to keep runners honest!

[yellowjack]

Mothersruin said:

If I recall you're an ex-Osnabruck guy - there just before I was?

Yes. 23 Engr Regt, '89 to '92.

I was one of the "victims" of the 'Advanced' CFT* trial too. Three miles instead of eight, but almost all done as a run instead of a march, in CEFO* instead of CEMO*, as a section rather than a troop, and carrying section heavy weapons (Carl Gustav* and LMG*) shared between the section.

Thankfully it didn't catch on.

I really struggled with running for my whole army career. I mean, I passed the tests/assessments as and when required, but I was always more comfortable tabbing out a 10-mile march & shoot competition than I was with a BFT* (which was also run in boots back then).

I'm hoping that this time around, because I'm running for myself rather than to achieve a test 'pass', then I'll be able to enjoy it more...


For those who don't know (and why would most people?)...

*CFT = Combat Fitness Test (currently 8 miles in 2 hours carrying 25 kg rucksack plus weapon)
*CEFO = Complete Equipment - Fighting Order (webbing/assault vest with weight to simulate battle ready kit)
*CEMO = Complete Equipment - Marching Order (as CEFO, plus a loaded bergan/rucksack)
*Carl Gustav = aka: "Charlie G" - 22 lb of 84mm 'Recoilless Rifle', basically a reusable anti-tank rocket launcher.
*LMG = Light Machine Gun (clue - it wasn't all than "light" in terms of weight )
*BFT = Basic Fitness Test (used to be 1.5 miles [2.4 km] individual effort, in 10m 30s or less, for under 40 year-olds. Preceded by a warm-up run/walk of 15 minutes as a squad)

For the last two years of my army career I had an illness which has left me registered disabled (not physically). So I no longer had to pass those tests, and then came 6 years of civilian life where I continued to opt out of running, but cycled for pleasure and fitness. So as I try to reintroduce running into my life I'm finding it very hard work. As I'm reasonably fit, and can cycle all day long if I want/need to (160 miles in a day last summer, for example), it's not so much fatigue that holds me back, but muscular issues. Lots of tightness in my legs, both during, and especially after a run.

I ran yesterday morning, stretched off, had a shower, then went to the theatre with my wife in the afternoon. By the evening, my thighs were so bad that I could get upstairs OK, but struggled to walk "normally" when coming down stairs.

[Mothersruin]

Take it easy. Very easy mate. We're used to beastings and being pushed very hard. That's fine when we're young, no good any more. I have to always back off as it's counter productive. I'm now resigned to plodding along but I've already proven I can do some distance/endurance so I'm happy.

I was 12 Armd in Mercer, 90-94.

[tenohfive]

yellowjack said:

it's not so much fatigue that holds me back, but muscular issues. Lots of tightness in my legs, both during, and especially after a run.

I ran yesterday morning, stretched off, had a shower, then went to the theatre with my wife in the afternoon. By the evening, my thighs were so bad that I could get upstairs OK, but struggled to walk "normally" when coming down stairs.

Apologies if I'm repeating something I've posted before, but have a look at the lunge matrix and leg swings as a warm up. Chuck in a bit of twice a week strength work and you'll find your legs become more resilient. The old advice of build slowly is every bit as true, and I loosely follow the 80/20 rule (80 of all running at low intensity.) But the above things don't take much time at all.

There's a bit of science around how depending on how muscular injuries or tendon injuries can be approached in different ways. Off the top of my head, tendon injuries can be countered by short stints of skipping rope work - whereas muscular injuries are best prevented with sessions targeting the muscles, like squats, dead lifts and calf raises.

If anyone's interested in that subject, I seem to remember it was on this podcast (along with a load of stuff about gelatin synthesis which was interesting.)
http://www.scienceofultra.com/podcasts/58

[egor110]

Mothersruin said:

Take it easy. Very easy mate. We're used to beastings and being pushed very hard. That's fine when we're young, no good any more. I have to always back off as it's counter productive. I'm now resigned to plodding along but I've already proven I can do some distance/endurance so I'm happy.

I was 12 Armd in Mercer, 90-94.

I guess as we get older we have to decide if we want to still try and beat the young ones and maybe cut short our running days or slow down and carry on running for years ahead .