The Running Thread Vol 2

[okgo]

Well, they do have video replay in runners needs, looked pretty obvious to me the difference before and after. Some peoples videos he showed me were shocking, almost ankle breaking every step.

[WolfieBot]

If they advise support shoes all it's doing is masking the problem.

Wearing a neutral shoe and correcting the poor form is the real answer.

Edited by WolfieBot on Wednesday 4th July 15:29

[AWF90]

I see. Makes sense I suppose then. Thanks again for the advice all.

[fiatpower]

okgo said:

Well, they do have video replay in runners needs, looked pretty obvious to me the difference before and after. Some peoples videos he showed me were shocking, almost ankle breaking every step.

My girlfriend's ankles were like this, almost at 90 degrees!

[Smitters]

There's also a lovely video of Kipchoge doing a track session and he's pronating quite a bit. The issue is pronation is normal. Overpronation, or supination isn't, but that threshold of it happening and you still running absolutely fine with it, versus it causing issues is different for everyone.

Then you get to the second issue, which is we all want a solution now. Support shoes for over-pronation do this, to a degree, but the reasons behind the excessive pronation are still there, as noted above. The long-game solution is to spend some time figuring out what needs strengthening and build that into your weekly exercise routine, not as a fix, but as a habit. Maybe more focus initially to improve, but then as a long-term maintenance strategy too.

I would also expect to chase things about a bit, so you improve one thing (for me, lower leg strength) and it highlights something else, in my case, my core is now lagging. I still do my calf exercises, but not as much, and I do some fairly horrible core exercise. It's all little building blocks to being a better runner, but it's a long process and I can certainly see why people buying a shoe that "fixes" the issue and allows you to run pain free tomorrow is a tempting proposition.

One pertinent question - is there something wrong with your existing shoe style? If they work OK, then a similar style would be worth a shot.

[andy_s]

Wise words Smitters.

[Smitters]

andy_s said:

Wise words Smitters.

Said no one, ever! But cheers.

I've been aiming to run in zero-drop shoes for years now, but every time I try, something else that needs attention rears it's head. I'm slowly chipping away, having raised my cadence from a heel-thumping overstride of about 160 to mid-170s to mid 190s depending on the pace.

I have core issues, glute issues, hamstring issues, tight calves, sore feet, sore shins. I have spent the best part of half a decade trying to figure out how to manage, then mitigate, then beat these things. I'm not there yet, but I'm a hell of a lot closer to it than I was.

I listened to a podcast the other day with Andy Jones-Wilkins, who said if given the choice of one perfect race, or daily running for the rest of his life, he'd choose daily and I completely agree. As soon as the notion of consistency stuck with me, I realised that speed is a byproduct of consistency and consistency is a byproduct of a whole lot that's not running. Rest, pre/rehab, gym, the food we eat. It's an all consuming lifestyle if you're a self confessed running nerd and sports science geek, but when it makes sense, it makes sense. My Mrs is very tolerant of my watching YT vids on running form, or good 5k workouts now. I mean, when did Barbara Windsor ever give entertaining advice on LT?

[FunkyNige]

Another case of 'just running and surprised at the speed' - there's a local 5k series here (Wroxham), the second race was just before my wedding and the third was just after I got back from Honeymoon (New York then Antigua).
It seems the key to quicker running is 2 weeks of burgers, rum and no running as I somehow got my 5k PB in the third race last night! Wasn't expecting much so just kept up with the people around me at a reasonable pace, got to the end of the race and I had somehow knocked a few seconds off my PB...

[MattS5]

FunkyNige said:

Another case of 'just running and surprised at the speed' - there's a local 5k series here (Wroxham), the second race was just before my wedding and the third was just after I got back from Honeymoon (New York then Antigua).
It seems the key to quicker running is 2 weeks of burgers, rum and no running as I somehow got my 5k PB in the third race last night! Wasn't expecting much so just kept up with the people around me at a reasonable pace, got to the end of the race and I had somehow knocked a few seconds off my PB...

Good effort in the heat last night.
Quite a few (around 30) of the club I run with were there. Some got PB's but many didn't improve on the times they got in race 1 and 2, despite having focused on 5k training for the past 8 weeks.

[tenohfive]

Smitters said:

Said no one, ever! But cheers.

I've been aiming to run in zero-drop shoes for years now, but every time I try, something else that needs attention rears it's head. I'm slowly chipping away, having raised my cadence from a heel-thumping overstride of about 160 to mid-170s to mid 190s depending on the pace.

I have core issues, glute issues, hamstring issues, tight calves, sore feet, sore shins. I have spent the best part of half a decade trying to figure out how to manage, then mitigate, then beat these things. I'm not there yet, but I'm a hell of a lot closer to it than I was.

I listened to a podcast the other day with Andy Jones-Wilkins, who said if given the choice of one perfect race, or daily running for the rest of his life, he'd choose daily and I completely agree. As soon as the notion of consistency stuck with me, I realised that speed is a byproduct of consistency and consistency is a byproduct of a whole lot that's not running. Rest, pre/rehab, gym, the food we eat. It's an all consuming lifestyle if you're a self confessed running nerd and sports science geek, but when it makes sense, it makes sense. My Mrs is very tolerant of my watching YT vids on running form, or good 5k workouts now. I mean, when did Barbara Windsor ever give entertaining advice on LT?

Running form is one thing I've moved away from. I can see the benefits of strength and conditioning particularly in a general sense, or based upon the type of injuries you're most prone to (muscular - strength. Ligament/tendon - jump rope etc ) but I've moved away from working specific areas. As soon as you strengthen one area in isolation by the nature of our musculo-skeletal system you're going to be changing the load elsewhere in a fairly inconsistent manner. Causing new issues.

And I've mentioned it before, but running economy is for me the ultimate target - I want to be able to go faster for the same input. Interfering with your natural gait is the opposite of how you improve your RE. That gets better just by running. I'm no Christopher McDougall style, pinole munching minimalist seeking his roots.

I feel that a lot of runners over-think injury. To me it seems that either a lack of conditioning or overtraining are behind a lot of injuries. And the instant response to injury is to try and fix it. Whereas I would now ignore that specific injury and just focus on general core and leg conditioning - and rest. It's both short and long-term cure.
Not my idea however; the one physio I've met and had any respect for always used to turf me out when I had pre-race injury issues with the same kinds of S&C exercises rather than giving me anything to deal with the injury. It didn't make me feel better but 18 months on I'm *touch wood* injury free and can't remember the last time I had anything other than ignorable niggles.

[T6 vanman]

AbzGuyGTI said:

T6 vanman said:

T6 vanman said:

ManVsCoast stuff

And more

Haha Good luck...! That's crazy! Ive raced a few VKs and normally complete in around an hour (depending on course), no idea how long it would take me doing a pile of other endurance stuff for 15 miles miles beforehand...id give yourself 2hrs + just to walk that to be honest!

Amazing weekend,
Ratrace Man Vs Coast. Thoroughly recommend an event from this team

Not easy but amazing
Scenery was breath-taking …. Strangely so was the run (think this was 19~20 miles in


For an old plodder like me I'll take 7 hours odd. (so excited at finishing I forgot to turn off MmR, actual time was around 7:35

Edited by T6 vanman on Sunday 8th July 21:29

[FreeLitres]

I'm doing my first ever road race in a weeks time! It's only a 5k and I have done 70+ Parkruns so I know I will get round OK.

I've been sent a race number which has a microchip on it. Can anyone answer these questions from a race noob?

1) I will be starting mid-rear of the pack. Will the microchip start my time when I cross the start line? I'm just wondering when to start my race watch to give a realistic estimate of my run time.

2) How do you stick your race number on your shirt?

3) Do the participants of races tend to be of a higher calibre compared to Parkruns?

Thanks in advance

[WolfieBot]

Did a beer mile today.

Down a beer, run a lap of the track, repeat 4 times!

I'm terrible at drinking quickly so it was a pretty abysmal performance.

9:19, don't think I've even drunk 4 beers in that time before let alone ran the mile too!

Don't think I'll be repeating that again for a while!

[Cybertronian]

FreeLitres said:

I'm doing my first ever road race in a weeks time! It's only a 5k and I have done 70+ Parkruns so I know I will get round OK.

I've been sent a race number which has a microchip on it. Can anyone answer these questions from a race noob?

1) I will be starting mid-rear of the pack. Will the microchip start my time when I cross the start line? I'm just wondering when to start my race watch to give a realistic estimate of my run time.

2) How do you stick your race number on your shirt?

3) Do the participants of races tend to be of a higher calibre compared to Parkruns?

Thanks in advance

Good luck!

1) Start your watch as you cross the start line. Also, start in a sensible place, so as not to be slowed down or slow others down.

2) Safety pins. Think about whether you want the number higher or lower on your top.

3) Probably a touch higher, as many racers also parkrun, but not all parkrunners attend races.

[The jiffle king]

FreeLitres said:

I'm doing my first ever road race in a weeks time! It's only a 5k and I have done 70+ Parkruns so I know I will get round OK.

I've been sent a race number which has a microchip on it. Can anyone answer these questions from a race noob?

1) I will be starting mid-rear of the pack. Will the microchip start my time when I cross the start line? I'm just wondering when to start my race watch to give a realistic estimate of my run time.

2) How do you stick your race number on your shirt?

3) Do the participants of races tend to be of a higher calibre compared to Parkruns?

Thanks in advance

1) yes you get a gun time which is from the gun until you finish and a chip time which is exactly how long it took you

2) safety pins. Mist races supply them

3) could be better or worse than a parkrun. Usually a bit better but there will be 45 min runners almost certainly

Enjoy, it’s basically like a parkrun

[T6 vanman]

FreeLitres said:

2) How do you stick your race number on your shirt?


Thanks in advance

If you don't like the idea of putting pins through your t-shirt or snagging a nylon running top you can use these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Running-Belt-Race-Numbe...

As above for 1 & 3

Also enjoy it Don't get to concerned about times as these will come with improved fitness, Just do the run for fun,

You'll probably be with some of the same runners you 'compete' with at parkrun

[tenohfive]

Well Kilian has finally done his BGR - and taken an hour off Billy Bland's time:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2018/07/kilian_jor...
I don't think there was ever any doubt that with the right local guides to help him around it was always within his ability to do it, but still an impressive record to take and one that has stood since 1982.

Very firmly on my 'to do' list is having a go at a Bob Graham one day. Seeing this has made me think about scouting a couple of the legs if I manage to get up there over the summer.

[andy_s]

tenohfive said:

Well Kilian has finally done his BGR - and taken an hour off Billy Bland's time:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2018/07/kilian_jor...
I don't think there was ever any doubt that with the right local guides to help him around it was always within his ability to do it, but still an impressive record to take and one that has stood since 1982.

Very firmly on my 'to do' list is having a go at a Bob Graham one day. Seeing this has made me think about scouting a couple of the legs if I manage to get up there over the summer.

Yeah incredible feat, the support runners were all cobbled together at the last minute too - when he set off there was no one set up for leg five, however he got the cream of runners by chance as another attempt was cancelled at the last minute. (ETA - as per the link - doh!) Nice to see Bland there on course and at the end and Killian humble as ever with his acknowledgment of better conditions and being inspired by Billy all the way - nice guy.

[AbzGuyGTI]

andy_s said:

tenohfive said:

Well Kilian has finally done his BGR - and taken an hour off Billy Bland's time:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2018/07/kilian_jor...
I don't think there was ever any doubt that with the right local guides to help him around it was always within his ability to do it, but still an impressive record to take and one that has stood since 1982.

Very firmly on my 'to do' list is having a go at a Bob Graham one day. Seeing this has made me think about scouting a couple of the legs if I manage to get up there over the summer.

Yeah incredible feat, the support runners were all cobbled together at the last minute too - when he set off there was no one set up for leg five, however he got the cream of runners by chance as another attempt was cancelled at the last minute. (ETA - as per the link - doh!) Nice to see Bland there on course and at the end and Killian humble as ever with his acknowledgment of better conditions and being inspired by Billy all the way - nice guy.

Yeah pretty epic time especially coming off of winning Mont Blanc Marathon last weekend and a leg break 3 months ago...! Not sure if anyone will get close to that for while...!

[SpydieNut]

tenohfive said:

Well Kilian has finally done his BGR - and taken an hour off Billy Bland's time:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2018/07/kilian_jor...
I don't think there was ever any doubt that with the right local guides to help him around it was always within his ability to do it, but still an impressive record to take and one that has stood since 1982.

Very firmly on my 'to do' list is having a go at a Bob Graham one day. Seeing this has made me think about scouting a couple of the legs if I manage to get up there over the summer.

gutted i missed this - we were actually in Keswick on Saturday and there were some trails runners coming on late afternoon - not sure what they were doing though - I think Kilian did it yesterday.

unbelievable running though