The Running Thread Vol 2

[Smitters]

T6 vanman said:

Pete102 said:

Signed up for a local half marathon in September....giving me 8 weeks to go from my current running (5k, 2 - 3 times a week) up to the half distance.

Hope you dont mind me joining the thread!

Hi Pete,

Welcome to the thread,

Of course your welcome,

Post weekly your updates from your training plan, …. If you have the running blue's vent your frustration here,

Good luck with the HM

Enjoy - and welcome. Not awful weather to be doing more running! Until the inevitable thunder storm strikes!

[fiatpower]

Smitters said:

Enjoy - and welcome. Not awful weather to be doing more running! Until the inevitable thunder storm strikes!

I don't know, I much prefer running in cold temperatures to the current high temperatures. High temperatures better for everything else though!

[feef]

fiatpower said:

Smitters said:

Enjoy - and welcome. Not awful weather to be doing more running! Until the inevitable thunder storm strikes!

I don't know, I much prefer running in cold temperatures to the current high temperatures. High temperatures better for everything else though!

Yup. I’m much happier running when it’s cold. Anything below 10degrees suits me fine.

[T6 vanman]

Smitters said:

Enjoy - and welcome. Not awful weather to be doing more running! Until the inevitable thunder storm strikes!

Sorry Smitters, but can not agree - This weather's been awful, The Ultra a fortnight ago killed me in the heat and I'm averaging about 15 sec per Km down on my averages during my evening runs,
Look what you've started Pete ….!

[AWF90]

Any tips on increasing speed over long distance? I am currently doing ~10 miles 2 or 3 times a week, roughly 9 min miles.
I do 5k's in about 24 min - 10k's in about 52 min and HM in about 2 hr. I'm 23 and think I should be running ' faster ' .... When I started running about 2 years ago, my times were v similar to these, I don't seem to be improving?

[The jiffle king]

AWF90 said:

Any tips on increasing speed over long distance? I am currently doing ~10 miles 2 or 3 times a week, roughly 9 min miles.

You're training the same way every week and expecting a different result. A good school of thought is to have the following runs every week:
1 x long run - Do a bit longer than 10 miles but slower. Sometimes do the last 2-3 miles at race pace
1 x tempo run - Build up from 2 miles at +10/20 seconds slower than race pace to 6-8 miles
1 x speed/intervals - 8 x 800, 12 x 400m, 4 x 1 mile or similar (Warm up and cool down needed)

[tenohfive]

AWF90 said:

Any tips on increasing speed over long distance? I am currently doing ~10 miles 2 or 3 times a week, roughly 9 min miles.
I do 5k's in about 24 min - 10k's in about 52 min and HM in about 2 hr. I'm 23 and think I should be running ' faster ' .... When I started running about 2 years ago, my times were v similar to these, I don't seem to be improving?

I'm a big believer that the long slow run is a key part of speed at anything from 5k to 50 miles. Your bodies internal fueling is important and training it to be more efficient becomes more important the longer you go. By running long enough that you deplete your muscle glycogen stores (i.e. the instant energy stores in your muscles, immediately ready for use) you force your body a) to become more efficient at burning fat as a primary fuel source - something you'll need running long, and b) it increases the size of your muscle glycogen stores - so you can push harder for longer.
It's also when you're most receptive to mitochondrial recruitment - basically meaning your muscles will work more effectively and efficiently.

I'd be aiming to do 1 weekly long run at low effort, lasting at least two hours but ideally closer to two and a half to three hours - so I'd say around 15-16 miles. Once a month going longer (20-ish) having built up to that distance if it means a significant increase in what you're currently doing.

I don't personally do any intensity in that run, be it tempo or fast-finish. Others do.

I think it's dangerous to attribute specific outcomes to one part of training because fundamentally all training is cumulative, it's not down to magic workouts and people rarely make just one change to their training over a given time period. But my perception is that pushing my long run to 16+ miles made me faster at everything from 5k to 50k.

Oh, and it's probably worth mentioning - if you're carrying any extra timber you don't need have a look at diet. You can't outrun a bad diet, and less unnecessary weight will make you faster.

[Smitters]

You can all do one! Heat is my secret advantage. Yes it's hard, but because I'm odd and therefore run almost daily whenever we go on hols, I've got quite good in the heat, or should I say, quite good at surfing the line between going hard and grinding to a halt in a cold sweat, with a fat tongue and wobbly vision.

I can sympathise on the ultra in heat though T6. I did Race to the Tower in early June and it was sweltering, though still a good 5 degrees cooler that recently.

Man who:

Likes the extreme temps (heat and cold)
Likes running uphill
Enjoys the pain of exertion at high altitude

Is it any bloody wonder I enjoy ultras? Next up, my new hobby, banging my thumb with a hammer.

[T6 vanman]

Smitters said:

Stuff

I can sympathise on the ultra in heat though T6. I did Race to the Tower in early June and it was sweltering, though still a good 5 degrees cooler that recently.


Is it any bloody wonder I enjoy ultras? Next up, my new hobby, banging my thumb with a hammer.

Spooky ... mine was - Race to the stones

[tenohfive]

I did an ultra in unexpected heat (April/May time - think it was around 27c) wearing calf sleeves and short tights. Mistake. From mid-thigh to just below the knee got a cracking tan. The rest of my legs were pasty white.
I couldn't go out in public in shorts for months.

I do generally like running in the heat though - or anything that adds another dimension or a bit of drama to the running. It's just keeping an eye on hydration (during races anyway) that's the issue, it really can creep up on you and make life bloody miserable. Being able to monitor what I'm drinking as I go is one of the reasons I prefer soft bottles to a bladder during long races.

[Challo]

The jiffle king said:

AWF90 said:

Any tips on increasing speed over long distance? I am currently doing ~10 miles 2 or 3 times a week, roughly 9 min miles.

You're training the same way every week and expecting a different result. A good school of thought is to have the following runs every week:
1 x long run - Do a bit longer than 10 miles but slower. Sometimes do the last 2-3 miles at race pace
1 x tempo run - Build up from 2 miles at +10/20 seconds slower than race pace to 6-8 miles
1 x speed/intervals - 8 x 800, 12 x 400m, 4 x 1 mile or similar (Warm up and cool down needed)

On the longer runs I always found running to time helped me more than just focusing on miles. I run a HM in about 1.42 and for my longest runs I run upto 2hrs rather than the 11miles. Felt I had more in the tank come race day.

[AWF90]

That's great Gents - roll on Sunday then for a very steady 2 hr + run.

tenohfive said:

Oh, and it's probably worth mentioning - if you're carrying any extra timber you don't need have a look at diet. You can't outrun a bad diet, and less unnecessary weight will make you faster.

Nope, not a fat lad. 190cm, 82kg so BMI of around 22.8 - thanks again though!!

[andy_s]

I'm sure the heat takes it out of you, but when it gets cooler you seem to spring along! Had some great runs while on my jollies in northern Spain and I was drenched through after minutes - crazy, but back in the UK did some great runs out with my wife (a trail marathon with the start and finish being up and back down Ben Lomond and the like) and felt a lot stronger than I have done for a while. Now I have to keep it up but I'm in 45-50 degrees - fatal heat really so off to the gym

Tenohfive/Smitters et al - I'd commend a good programme shown on S4C [Welsh BBC] recounting a tale of someone on last year's Dragon's Back - he's a bit of a cracker but a great guy, anyway, some interesting insight - go over to iPlayer / S4C / or search Ar Gefn y Ddraig - oh and put subtitles 'on'! Check out the guy cracking on with a broken leg....

ETA: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p06cm3cs/ar-...

Edited by andy_s on Friday 27th July 18:39

[askew]

Hello!

I am running my first Great North Run this September and have a question about logistics from others who have run it previously. Namely: what's the deal in getting back from Gateshead to Newcastle – is public transport up to the job? Any tips of the trade to avoid the crowds/get out of dodge?

[MattS5]

askew said:

Hello!

I am running my first Great North Run this September and have a question about logistics from others who have run it previously. Namely: what's the deal in getting back from Gateshead to Newcastle – is public transport up to the job? Any tips of the trade to avoid the crowds/get out of dodge?

Park at the end, get the shuttle bus to the start. Simple really.
Takes around 20-30 mins from memory.
I got to the car park around 2.5hrs before race start, then used the bus ride to eat a banana and sip at a bottle of water.
Had to hang around for about 30 mins at the start, dropped bag into baggage,then got into pen with 30 mins to spare.

[askew]

Sounds like a plan – I didn't realise there was a shuttle.

[The jiffle king]

Not done more than 16 miles in a single run since Feb, so decided to help some friends with their 20 miler this morning....
90% was on trails which was good, but legs feel a bit battered. Lesson learned..... until next time

[irf]

Could really do with some help if possible gents.

Been running for almost two years now, graduated from c25k. Pace is slow (28 min 5k but 62 min 6 mile (pb)) but not too bothered about that.

My main issue is shin splints.

What happens is I gradually build mileage up and then the shin splints start.

Beginning of this year I went to a runners need shop and had my gait analysed. Up to then I was wearing asics gel kayanos and was told they were actually ok as I was over pronating. Had some massages done (painful but oh my, worth every penny) and got some brooks adrenaline gts -18s.

From then I was on average doing two 3.2 mile runs during the week and then going longer on the weekend always heeding the increasing the run no more than 10% rule . Got up to 7.6 miles and while i was fine during the run it's afterwards that I'm limping.

I always stretch after the run, Wear compression socks afterwards, run cold water over my calves, use a foam roller and in the last week or two been doing toe raises.

I'd really appreciate any input as at the moment I'm a bit lost. I was originally thinking I'd be at a point where I could enter a half marathon this autumn but no way now.

Thanks.

edit to add. Current status is I gave myself two weeks off which was hard. Felt better, went out for just two miles and they're back again. Went and got another massage and while it's sorted any calf tightness I don't think it's done much the shin splints.

Hoping someone will just say xyz is your problem, buy zyx trainers although I know it's never that straight forward.

Edited by irf on Monday 30th July 19:53

[askew]

Aww, that sucks. Have you seen a physio? Wondering if you have a stress fracture rather than just shin splints. It may well be a bio-mechanical issue: muscle imbalance/chronic tightness.

Try this: run your hand down your shirt, until you feel the area that is in the most pain. Press quite firmly about three inches away from the area of pain, onto the shin. Gradually press along the bone getting closer and closer. If you feel little or no pain until directly over, this might indicate a fracture. If it's over a larger area it's likely shin splints.

In either case, you'll probably need to avoid running for about six weeks, do stuff on the bike or pool. When you do come back, be gentle: try running for 5 x 3 minutes and stretch each time. If you can get on a treadmill and run up hill, this will alleviate the strain on your forefoot.

[grumbledoak]

irf said:

My main issue is shin splints.

I found kneeling, with tops of the feet on the floor and toes pointed behind, stretches my shins well.