The Running Thread Vol 2

[Cybertronian]

C0ffin D0dger said:

I'm after an event recommendation for popping my half marathon cherry, aim to be "ready" early May though could be a little sooner if needs be. Want to do something road based around the West Midlands and preferably not too hilly, I'll build up to those if the first attempt goes well

I had looked at my most local event the Worcester Half and Full marathon which starts / finishes at the rugby ground but from what I've read it has quite a bit of climbing. Next is the Tewkesbury Half but the route is putting me off, not because of any inclines but because it's ran on open roads and knowing the area well I wouldn't chose to run on much of the route normally due to it being on fairly busy roads. The reviews I've read aren't favourable either.

Prepared to travel a bit if needs be. Are there many half marathon events on closed roads? Could imagine it might be difficult to close off that much road. The Draycote Water (Nr. Rugby) Half looks interesting.

Thanks.

There's the Shakespeare Half Marathon in late April. Tewkesbury for me wasn't fun - uninspired course on a very warm day for me in 2017.

One problem you'll have is the time of year. Whilst there are half marathons available all year round, many of the key races take place in March-April and September-October. May will start to get warm and that's when more 10k races start to emerge as many don't want to run longer distances in the warmth.

The other problem is as the events are smaller and lower profile, the higher the likelihood they'll take place at least on partially live roads, i.e. one lane will be closed for runners and the opposite side open to traffic. Races are marshalled, especially on the high risk portions of routes so I wouldn't let this put you off. Unless you're going to be one of the front-runners or those at the very end, you'll have plenty of others to run with and there'll be no mistake to drivers that you're participating in a race.

Good luck!

Edited by Cybertronian on Wednesday 9th January 09:09

[Mothersruin]

There's The Darwin Half/Full in Shrewsbury.

I did it a few years back - it's flat, no traffic, facilities always near by...

...but it's a 1km loop and it's really, really, really, really boring.

http://codrc.co.uk/the-charles-darwin-day/

Did I mention how boring it is?

ETA - Ah, just seen for a May date. Sorry, this will be too soon.

[Gargamel]

RobM77 said:

I'd be interested in opinions, but my wife recommended a training plan to me that sounds similar to these ideas that you've described above; she is a doctor and keen runner and a keen advocate of the "Furman Institute's" training methods (http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Pages/default.aspx - the details are somewhere on there). Basically you start with your current race pace and from that calculate a 'short tempo' pace (fast-ish, IIRC it's about 10-15s per km off race pace for me), long tempo (relaxed jog looking at the scenery), and various interval paces for 400m, 800m etc. Each week I have three key runs: a long LT run, a shorter ST run, and an intervals session. I don't like following rigid plans (I'm in this for fun!), so I've just taken the basic spirit of it, but I'm very steadily building things up and getting slowly faster and faster. Every so often I recalculate (or I'm supposed to - I just guess to be honest). I had a long period away from running due to injury ten years ago, but re-started running regularly a year or two ago, and since then my paces have all improved by 30s/km.

I think most experience runners have a fairly settled preferred routine. I am back in Marathon training so mine is this.

I have a long slow run on a Sunday, where I build my distances.
Short 5k slow run Monday as a recovery.
Wednesday a medium sized race pace or similar effort. Sometimes this is fartlek or in any event in my head this is a speed run. 8k or so.
Friday moderate speed usually below race pace but a solid 10 -12 k.

Makes for about a 40k week, then a bit more as the Sunday runs build up.

My other tip is every 4th week I step back, so have a lighter week, about 70% of the week before volume, helps keep the injuries down and allows a better recovery

[Smitters]

Gargamel said:

RobM77 said:

I'd be interested in opinions, but my wife recommended a training plan to me that sounds similar to these ideas that you've described above; she is a doctor and keen runner and a keen advocate of the "Furman Institute's" training methods (http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Pages/default.aspx - the details are somewhere on there). Basically you start with your current race pace and from that calculate a 'short tempo' pace (fast-ish, IIRC it's about 10-15s per km off race pace for me), long tempo (relaxed jog looking at the scenery), and various interval paces for 400m, 800m etc. Each week I have three key runs: a long LT run, a shorter ST run, and an intervals session. I don't like following rigid plans (I'm in this for fun!), so I've just taken the basic spirit of it, but I'm very steadily building things up and getting slowly faster and faster. Every so often I recalculate (or I'm supposed to - I just guess to be honest). I had a long period away from running due to injury ten years ago, but re-started running regularly a year or two ago, and since then my paces have all improved by 30s/km.

I think most experience runners have a fairly settled preferred routine. I am back in Marathon training so mine is this.

I have a long slow run on a Sunday, where I build my distances.
Short 5k slow run Monday as a recovery.
Wednesday a medium sized race pace or similar effort. Sometimes this is fartlek or in any event in my head this is a speed run. 8k or so.
Friday moderate speed usually below race pace but a solid 10 -12 k.

Makes for about a 40k week, then a bit more as the Sunday runs build up.

My other tip is every 4th week I step back, so have a lighter week, about 70% of the week before volume, helps keep the injuries down and allows a better recovery

The Furman plan looks sensible - though to be honest, when you break things down to their elements, most plans are. One point of note - tempo should not feel like an easy jog! There's always interpretation but my hierarchy is this(and there is some overlapping of course):

Recovery
Long Run Pace
Easy Pace
Tempo
Tempo Intervals (this would be long intervals of 1km-5km+)
Intervals (up to 800, effort 8-10/10, depending on length)

The step from Easy to Tempo is significant, but avoids the "grey zone". HM pace may fall just to the tempo side of the grey zone, mara pace closer to easy, but still in there somewhere.

Whatever you're doing, if you're having fun, you're doing something right though!

[RobM77]

Thanks guys, interesting to hear your thoughts. I enjoy it, which is the main thing, but I'm very competitive with myself and have a target 5k time I'm trying to reach. The plan has seen steady increases in pace, but at my present rate I'm maybe another year or so off my target.

[Smitters]

Just co-hosted the first office running club session. Myself and another keen runner took the LiFR course with UKA last year with a view to creating a total beginners group for the office.

First session today - a great learning experience for all concerned, not least on how to run session that cover all sorts of ability levels from those only capable of a brisk walk to some quite fit folk at the front.

Definitely challenging, but looking forward to seeing how the group evolves and our coaching roles shake out too.

[lufbramatt]

Good work, I hope it's successful for you!

We did one in our office about a year ago, a couch to 5k type thing over 2 months. Started with 12 or so people. 2 dropped out after a week, I think most of the rest did complete the 5k distance at the end. All really happy and enthusiastic about carrying it on. But then after a few weeks they had all given up and it was back to me and one other guy (who already ran anyway) going running at lunchtimes. Which was a shame :-/

My running year is off to a much better start, managed my first parkrun in 5 years on new years day (20:18 "official time", 19:56 on my watch due to the time it took to get over the start line). Aim for the year is to get under 18 mins. Most of my training is cycling but I'm gradually increasing the number of running sessions I'm doing. Did 9 miles on sunday on a fairly hilly off road route in 65 mins, making the most of the trail shoes I got for Christmas, really enjoyed it. Just got to keep the injuries at bay this year!

Edited by lufbramatt on Wednesday 9th January 15:54

[C0ffin D0dger]

Cybertronian said:

There's the Shakespeare Half Marathon in late April. Tewkesbury for me wasn't fun - uninspired course on a very warm day for me in 2017.

One problem you'll have is the time of year. Whilst there are half marathons available all year round, many of the key races take place in March-April and September-October. May will start to get warm and that's when more 10k races start to emerge as many don't want to run longer distances in the warmth.

The other problem is as the events are smaller and lower profile, the higher the likelihood they'll take place at least on partially live roads, i.e. one lane will be closed for runners and the opposite side open to traffic. Races are marshalled, especially on the high risk portions of routes so I wouldn't let this put you off. Unless you're going to be one of the front-runners or those at the very end, you'll have plenty of others to run with and there'll be no mistake to drivers that you're participating in a race.

Good luck!

Edited by Cybertronian on Wednesday 9th January 09:09

Thanks for that! Liking the look of the Shakespeare one, fairly flat, decent sized field, nice having a bit of a crowd to get / keep you moving. Knowing Stratford they'll be stuff to keep the wife and kids entertained while I'm out running too. Have to work out if it fits with everything else but it's the end of the school Easter holiday so should be okay.

[RobM77]

lufbramatt said:

Good work, I hope it's successful for you!

We did one in our office about a year ago, a couch to 5k type thing over 2 months. Started with 12 or so people. 2 dropped out after a week, I think most of the rest did complete the 5k distance at the end. All really happy and enthusiastic about carrying it on. But then after a few weeks they had all given up and it was back to me and one other guy (who already ran anyway) going running at lunchtimes. Which was a shame :-/

My running year is off to a much better start, managed my first parkrun in 5 years on new years day (20:18 "official time", 19:56 on my watch due to the time it took to get over the start line). Aim for the year is to get under 18 mins. Most of my training is cycling but I'm gradually increasing the number of running sessions I'm doing. Did 9 miles on sunday on a fairly hilly off road route in 65 mins, making the most of the trail shoes I got for Christmas, really enjoyed it. Just got to keep the injuries at bay this year!

Edited by lufbramatt on Wednesday 9th January 15:54

Thanks. My target is a sub 20min 5k. Currently I'm doing about 21:xx regularly without too much effort, but I still feel like I'm a fair way off sub 20. I'm making steady progress though, so hopefully will get there soon!

I don't have any trail shoes, but some of my friends and family do trail runs and they look fun, so I'm quite tempted. My only worry at my age is getting an awkward footing, spraining something and being out of running for ages...

[Cybertronian]

C0ffin D0dger said:

Thanks for that! Liking the look of the Shakespeare one, fairly flat, decent sized field, nice having a bit of a crowd to get / keep you moving. Knowing Stratford they'll be stuff to keep the wife and kids entertained while I'm out running too. Have to work out if it fits with everything else but it's the end of the school Easter holiday so should be okay.

It's my current half marathon PB course, so should serve you well!

The only real downside I experienced with the race was the final 5k. The route moves from road to a dis-used railway line that'd been filled in - whilst firm, the top surface was slightly loose, like gravel, and the lower traction was quite jarring. That section is very well supported, however.

[Smitters]

Cheers for the encouragement - we're trying to avoid our club being about a specific goal (I'm channeling Brian Williams, to those in the know...), and making our sessions accessible and applicable to all. Essentially, a total beginner and Mo Farah ought to be able to turn up and do the same session, and get the same out of it. This means it's without a defined end-point and thus people can join late, stop and return and not fear being left behind by the group. It also makes it bloody hard to think up sessions.

Re trail shoes - I would say the benefits in both leg strength from running trails, proprioception improvements from foot placement, mental engagement or "being present" because of the increased awareness required and softness underfoot which helps prevent injury outweights the risk of turning an ankle, though the risk is there.

Stratford Half - my PW course, though not due to the course, but terrible training. Glad to hear there's support on the track section now. If was a deserted wind-tunnel when I did it, boring, and monotonous. But then I was on it for a looooong time!

[SHutchinson]

Smitters said:

Cheers for the encouragement - we're trying to avoid our club being about a specific goal (I'm channeling Brian Williams, to those in the know...), and making our sessions accessible and applicable to all. Essentially, a total beginner and Mo Farah ought to be able to turn up and do the same session, and get the same out of it. This means it's without a defined end-point and thus people can join late, stop and return and not fear being left behind by the group. It also makes it bloody hard to think up sessions.

Re trail shoes - I would say the benefits in both leg strength from running trails, proprioception improvements from foot placement, mental engagement or "being present" because of the increased awareness required and softness underfoot which helps prevent injury outweights the risk of turning an ankle, though the risk is there.

Stratford Half - my PW course, though not due to the course, but terrible training. Glad to hear there's support on the track section now. If was a deserted wind-tunnel when I did it, boring, and monotonous. But then I was on it for a looooong time!

When I was a run leader (which I really enjoyed btw) I used to modify my sessions if I had a massive range of abilities turn up. We used to do a lot of interval pyramids. 20 seconds fast, jog back to regroup, 30 seconds fast, jog back to regroup ... 40..50..60..50..40..30 you get the idea. That way everyone was running for the same amount of time and got the same rest periods, it just meant that Mo Farah covered a lot more ground than the less advanced runners.

If you find a really long hill it's even better as it's a tough session for everyone but no one ends up too far away.

[tenohfive]

Any happy or unhappy runners with results from the UTMB/TDS/CCC ballot today?

[ukaskew]

hyphen said:

What's the age range of people?

I've only done a few events so far but most appear to be open to runners now too so it's a pretty wide spread. I'm 36 and certainly at the younger end, but the events have been reasonably tough so it's not a jolly for Doris and her knitting club, if that's what you're wondering!

The Stonehenge Stomp is 40k and the cut off is 8hrs if I remember correctly, I think that's a fairly flat route though and the course is marked, so presumably at the easier end of the scale.

The Bath Beat was a real slog with an absolutely brutal final couple of miles, I walked the last 15 miles but (as a fairly brisk walker) passed quite a few younger runners who I didn't then see again.

They usually have a 2hr or so window when you can start but they ask the runners to start as late as possible otherwise the checkpoints may not be manned etc.

RizzoTheRat said:

Are you aware of the LDWA? https://www.ldwa.org.uk/

Yep, I think the events I've signed up for have been organised by the local groups or at least affiliated with them.

Edited by ukaskew on Friday 11th January 08:18

[Smitters]

SHutchinson said:

When I was a run leader (which I really enjoyed btw) I used to modify my sessions if I had a massive range of abilities turn up. We used to do a lot of interval pyramids. 20 seconds fast, jog back to regroup, 30 seconds fast, jog back to regroup ... 40..50..60..50..40..30 you get the idea. That way everyone was running for the same amount of time and got the same rest periods, it just meant that Mo Farah covered a lot more ground than the less advanced runners.

If you find a really long hill it's even better as it's a tough session for everyone but no one ends up too far away.

Cheers - that's exactly what we're doing. Next week I'm going to start with the ministry of silly walks, AKA slow speed drills of high knees, gentle lunges, hurdles and bum kicks, then do the session you've suggested. Our range is fit 5-a-side footballers to ladies who have never run, so we're trying to avoid hills currently, in case we put off/kill someone!

[Smitters]

tenohfive said:

Any happy or unhappy runners with results from the UTMB/TDS/CCC ballot today?

Me and my mate. Me, because I missed the second qualy race, so couldn't even enter. Bah. My mate because he was rejected in the ballot for the PTL. New plans required for us both.

You in for anything?

[andy_s]

Smitters said:

tenohfive said:

Any happy or unhappy runners with results from the UTMB/TDS/CCC ballot today?

Me and my mate. Me, because I missed the second qualy race, so couldn't even enter. Bah. My mate because he was rejected in the ballot for the PTL. New plans required for us both.

You in for anything?

PTL is a dream of mine, along with the Tors; only one person I knew got a place (CCC) the rest bummed out.

[Scabutz]

Spine race starts Sunday. I have designs on this race for the future so will be watching the trackers. Some one from my wife's running club is doing it.

[AbzGuyGTI]

andy_s said:

Smitters said:

tenohfive said:

Any happy or unhappy runners with results from the UTMB/TDS/CCC ballot today?

Me and my mate. Me, because I missed the second qualy race, so couldn't even enter. Bah. My mate because he was rejected in the ballot for the PTL. New plans required for us both.

You in for anything?

PTL is a dream of mine, along with the Tors; only one person I knew got a place (CCC) the rest bummed out.

1 in UTMB (Elite runner though), 1 in CCC, i Failed in OCC!

[Smitters]

Gutted for you missing the OCC. I reckon it'll be getting harder and harder to enter all events this year, more points and so on.

I'm doing my first orienteering event today. 3km with my boy (4), so zero pressure and max fun.