The Running Thread Vol 2

[feef]

Candellara said:

I've been running for a few years, mainly 5k's and 10'ks and run about 35km a week.

The longest event I've done is a half marathon and keep pontificating about stepping up for the full marathon.

I managed the half marathon fine in terms of fitness (this was about 7 months ago and I finished in 1h46m) but my fitness has improved since. The main issue I had was aching back and aching hamstrings towards the end of the half.

How much of a step (excuse the pun) is it from running the half to the full marathon?

I did a couple of Halfs before deciding to do a full marathon. Did my first marathon in June. I am consistently doing a 2hr half marathon distance, so guessed I could do a full marathon in 5 hrs. I was on target for my 5 hrs until I got a groin strain. At that point I worked out that I could walk the remaining distance and still come in at under 6 hrs : which I did.

It's not whether you can do it, it's what goal you set yourself for it.

[RobM77]

feef said:

Candellara said:

I've been running for a few years, mainly 5k's and 10'ks and run about 35km a week.

The longest event I've done is a half marathon and keep pontificating about stepping up for the full marathon.

I managed the half marathon fine in terms of fitness (this was about 7 months ago and I finished in 1h46m) but my fitness has improved since. The main issue I had was aching back and aching hamstrings towards the end of the half.

How much of a step (excuse the pun) is it from running the half to the full marathon?

I did a couple of Halfs before deciding to do a full marathon. Did my first marathon in June. I am consistently doing a 2hr half marathon distance, so guessed I could do a full marathon in 5 hrs. I was on target for my 5 hrs until I got a groin strain. At that point I worked out that I could walk the remaining distance and still come in at under 6 hrs : which I did.

It's not whether you can do it, it's what goal you set yourself for it.

Fair point! If Candellara ran a 1hr46min first half and then completed the remaining half at a brisk walk (4mph), he'd finish in exactly 5 hours.

[Candellara]

feef said:

I did a couple of Halfs before deciding to do a full marathon. Did my first marathon in June. I am consistently doing a 2hr half marathon distance, so guessed I could do a full marathon in 5 hrs. I was on target for my 5 hrs until I got a groin strain. At that point I worked out that I could walk the remaining distance and still come in at under 6 hrs : which I did.

It's not whether you can do it, it's what goal you set yourself for it.

Fair point. I think i'll do one more half and then go for the full marathon. My first target would be to do it in sub 4 hours.

[bigandclever]

Supposed to be peak-mileage week for training before Grand to Grand in a month or so, but looking outside it's raining and I really can't be arsed for this afternoon Doing a daily split routine, nice and steady with a 10kg race week bag weight, of:
am .. 7 miles home to train station -- commute -- 2 miles train station to work
pm .. 2 miles work to train station -- commute -- 7 miles train station to home
Saturday off
Sunday veeeery slow 20 miles. Should see me just over 100miles for the week if I sack off this afternoon, but I'll have to do some rowing or something to compensate a bit.

[johnwilliams77]

bigandclever said:

Supposed to be peak-mileage week for training before Grand to Grand in a month or so, but looking outside it's raining and I really can't be arsed for this afternoon Doing a daily split routine, nice and steady with a 10kg race week bag weight, of:
am .. 7 miles home to train station -- commute -- 2 miles train station to work
pm .. 2 miles work to train station -- commute -- 7 miles train station to home
Saturday off
Sunday veeeery slow 20 miles. Should see me just over 100miles for the week if I sack off this afternoon, but I'll have to do some rowing or something to compensate a bit.

Wish my body could cope with that!

[bigandclever]

johnwilliams77 said:

Wish my body could cope with that!

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m properly fked at the moment But this is peak week, will wind down over the next 3 weeks swapping back-to-backs to time-on-feet, a week off doing anything before kick-off, then 170miles or so slogging through the desert.

[gazza285]

Rather a damp run tonight, which has led to some serious nipple chafing. Had me dancing in the shower after...

[S1KRR]

Argh! Disaster time!


Got NYC Marathon in November. 11 weeks to go. Pulled my groin muscle after a negative split 14Miler! Felt like being stabbed the next time I ran

Aborted that run. Rested it for 10 days, Deep heated it. Deep Freezed it. Upped my protein in my diet in a vain hope. For the last week I've been doing some Groin Strain related strength/stretching/resistance band work. 3 times a day.


Started to feel OK, could walk with no twinges. Went for a 5K run/walk VERY slow and came back and felt OK, not fit, and pain was a 1 on the scale. Went for a run this morning, 6K again VERY SLOW and incorporated some walks in there as well if it started to get above 3-4. Got home, could feel it. Did a little foam rollering (avoiding the groin specifically) Had a pretty sedentary day, and its gone back to 7-8 pain again!


Suggestions?!?!? Already given up on any sort of time for NYC, (Around 4hours would be nice though!) Just want to get round and enjoy it. Really, REALLY don't want to cancel it as it'll cost thousands! Should I be considering swimming and/or cycling or time on an elliptical in the mean time? Deep tissue massage seems pointless to me, but would it be worth it?

Probably not viewed as wise. But happy not to run for a extended period AFTER November to allow it all to heal 101% Will even tolerate having to limp for the rest of my holiday over there!

[Kawasicki]

S1KRR said:

Argh! Disaster time!


Got NYC Marathon in November. 11 weeks to go. Pulled my groin muscle after a negative split 14Miler! Felt like being stabbed the next time I ran

Aborted that run. Rested it for 10 days, Deep heated it. Deep Freezed it. Upped my protein in my diet in a vain hope. For the last week I've been doing some Groin Strain related strength/stretching/resistance band work. 3 times a day.


Started to feel OK, could walk with no twinges. Went for a 5K run/walk VERY slow and came back and felt OK, not fit, and pain was a 1 on the scale. Went for a run this morning, 6K again VERY SLOW and incorporated some walks in there as well if it started to get above 3-4. Got home, could feel it. Did a little foam rollering (avoiding the groin specifically) Had a pretty sedentary day, and its gone back to 7-8 pain again!


Suggestions?!?!? Already given up on any sort of time for NYC, (Around 4hours would be nice though!) Just want to get round and enjoy it. Really, REALLY don't want to cancel it as it'll cost thousands! Should I be considering swimming and/or cycling or time on an elliptical in the mean time? Deep tissue massage seems pointless to me, but would it be worth it?

Probably not viewed as wise. But happy not to run for a extended period AFTER November to allow it all to heal 101% Will even tolerate having to limp for the rest of my holiday over there!

I’d like to offer you some decent advice, but I can’t! I did a 10k yesterday even though three weeks beforehand I stopped running due to (for me at least) unusual knee swelling and pain. The 10k I ran was part of a triathlon relay, so I didn’t want to let the swimmer and cyclist down.

It was a deeply unpleasant race, and today my knees hurt, a lot. So I’m taking a 1, maybe 2 month running break...gentle cycling is on the cards. I’m nearly 45, so I suppose it’s hardly surprising really.

[Smitters]

S1KRR said:

Argh! Disaster time!


Got NYC Marathon in November. 11 weeks to go. Pulled my groin muscle after a negative split 14Miler! Felt like being stabbed the next time I ran

Aborted that run. Rested it for 10 days, Deep heated it. Deep Freezed it. Upped my protein in my diet in a vain hope. For the last week I've been doing some Groin Strain related strength/stretching/resistance band work. 3 times a day.


Started to feel OK, could walk with no twinges. Went for a 5K run/walk VERY slow and came back and felt OK, not fit, and pain was a 1 on the scale. Went for a run this morning, 6K again VERY SLOW and incorporated some walks in there as well if it started to get above 3-4. Got home, could feel it. Did a little foam rollering (avoiding the groin specifically) Had a pretty sedentary day, and its gone back to 7-8 pain again!


Suggestions?!?!? Already given up on any sort of time for NYC, (Around 4hours would be nice though!) Just want to get round and enjoy it. Really, REALLY don't want to cancel it as it'll cost thousands! Should I be considering swimming and/or cycling or time on an elliptical in the mean time? Deep tissue massage seems pointless to me, but would it be worth it?

Probably not viewed as wise. But happy not to run for a extended period AFTER November to allow it all to heal 101% Will even tolerate having to limp for the rest of my holiday over there!

Physio asap and (as you've already decided) forget the time and enjoy the experience. If the physio says it's OK, go for walks instead of runs, inc a long walk each week. Time on feet and movement will be beneficial, even if you're not running.


Tough Mudder for me this weekend. Battered, bruised but had a great time. The love thy Tough Mudder brother ethos isn't for everyone, but I can't deny it's a good event.

[RobM77]

I agree. Physio asap, preferably a sports physio who understands running. Some niggles you can back off the load by running slow and reducing speed sessions (I'm doing this right now), but some you need complete rest.

[GTO-3R]

Who uses foam rollers? I've upped my mileage a fair amount this year and to aid my recovery (and warm up) I've been advised to get a foam roller. If you use one, which is it and would you recommend one?

I've seen a lot of positive reviews for the Trigger Point ones across a few different websites but it's a new world to me so wondered what the PH masses have!

[The jiffle king]

GTO-3R said:

Who uses foam rollers? I've upped my mileage a fair amount this year and to aid my recovery (and warm up) I've been advised to get a foam roller. If you use one, which is it and would you recommend one?

I've seen a lot of positive reviews for the Trigger Point ones across a few different websites but it's a new world to me so wondered what the PH masses have!

Ouch ouch ouch. They can work but I would advise the following:
- start very gently.... they can do you more damage than help if not well used
- stretch before use...
- don’t just run the initial pain area. The problem could be much further away but manifesting itself elsewhere
- don’t overdo the foam roller.... it should be used along with stretching and easy runs

We have various torture devices for this use but stretching still works best for me

[Kawasicki]

The jiffle king said:

GTO-3R said:

Who uses foam rollers? I've upped my mileage a fair amount this year and to aid my recovery (and warm up) I've been advised to get a foam roller. If you use one, which is it and would you recommend one?

I've seen a lot of positive reviews for the Trigger Point ones across a few different websites but it's a new world to me so wondered what the PH masses have!

Ouch ouch ouch. They can work but I would advise the following:
- start very gently.... they can do you more damage than help if not well used
- stretch before use...
- don’t just run the initial pain area. The problem could be much further away but manifesting itself elsewhere
- don’t overdo the foam roller.... it should be used along with stretching and easy runs

We have various torture devices for this use but stretching still works best for me

You did mention ouch, didn't you?

Oh, you mentioned it three times. That ties in well with my experiences.

[Smitters]

Yep - 66Fit basic roller here. Use it all the time. Got a pointy roller one too, but it's limited as you can't really do all your limbs comfortably. Just a smooth fairly soft one is fine IMHO.

I also have a golf ball, tennis ball and a hard rubber ball the size of a tennis ball, all of which are good for feet, calves and the hard ball good for shoulders and glutes when leaning on a wall.

Go easy - better to go softly, more often.

eta: this one: https://66fit.co.uk/collections/foam-rollers/produ...

Also, I use it regularly, not just to target tightness.

Edited by Smitters on Monday 19th August 15:56

[S1KRR]

Smitters said:

Yep - 66Fit basic roller here. Use it all the time. Got a pointy roller one too, but it's limited as you can't really do all your limbs comfortably. Just a smooth fairly soft one is fine IMHO.

I also have a golf ball, tennis ball and a hard rubber ball the size of a tennis ball, all of which are good for feet, calves and the hard ball good for shoulders and glutes when leaning on a wall.

Go easy - better to go softly, more often.

eta: this one: https://66fit.co.uk/collections/foam-rollers/produ...

Also, I use it regularly, not just to target tightness.

Ditto on the 66 Fit one. 90cm x 15cm. It's a good bit of kit. Had it probably 6-7 years now. Your ITB will be the killer the first few times, but you'll get through that easily enough. I can do mine whenever I want with no pain.

Also ditto on the golf ball for foot massage. Mine lives under the table my PC is on, so I can roll it round under my foot whilst typing


As suggested. Physio appointment also booked for tomorrow, so hopefully some constructive advice can follow

[GTO-3R]

Thanks for all your replies, I'm really looking forward to the pain of using one now

I'll take it easy and see how I go!

eta: Why would you choose a 15cm one over 10cm? What difference does each make to how they work? I'm guessing with the 10cm being smaller it "digs in" a bit more?

Edited by GTO-3R on Tuesday 20th August 10:31

[AbzGuyGTI]

S1KRR said:

Argh! Disaster time!


Got NYC Marathon in November. 11 weeks to go. Pulled my groin muscle after a negative split 14Miler! Felt like being stabbed the next time I ran

Aborted that run. Rested it for 10 days, Deep heated it. Deep Freezed it. Upped my protein in my diet in a vain hope. For the last week I've been doing some Groin Strain related strength/stretching/resistance band work. 3 times a day.


Started to feel OK, could walk with no twinges. Went for a 5K run/walk VERY slow and came back and felt OK, not fit, and pain was a 1 on the scale. Went for a run this morning, 6K again VERY SLOW and incorporated some walks in there as well if it started to get above 3-4. Got home, could feel it. Did a little foam rollering (avoiding the groin specifically) Had a pretty sedentary day, and its gone back to 7-8 pain again!


Suggestions?!?!? Already given up on any sort of time for NYC, (Around 4hours would be nice though!) Just want to get round and enjoy it. Really, REALLY don't want to cancel it as it'll cost thousands! Should I be considering swimming and/or cycling or time on an elliptical in the mean time? Deep tissue massage seems pointless to me, but would it be worth it?

Probably not viewed as wise. But happy not to run for a extended period AFTER November to allow it all to heal 101% Will even tolerate having to limp for the rest of my holiday over there!

Ahhh the dreaded groin injury! Happened to me a couple years back...didn't think it was too bad, same as you could walk etc no bother but felt it when i started any kind of active movement quicker than a walk. Had physio, massage etc etc.. but the only thing that really worked (this is not what you want to hear) is REST.....oh and i was out for approx 3 months!!! Just DO NOT RUN!!

Groin injuries are a nightmare as you think you are fine and then whack is comes right back with a vengeance! Swimming should be ok but just be very cautious, same with cycling! Honestly 11 weeks out, i think it will be very touch and go if you manage it....guess you could always run/walk it with no time in mind and just enjoy it (hopefully as pain free as possible).

[johnwilliams77]

AbzGuyGTI said:

Ahhh the dreaded groin injury! Happened to me a couple years back...didn't think it was too bad, same as you could walk etc no bother but felt it when i started any kind of active movement quicker than a walk. Had physio, massage etc etc.. but the only thing that really worked (this is not what you want to hear) is REST.....oh and i was out for approx 3 months!!! Just DO NOT RUN!!

Groin injuries are a nightmare as you think you are fine and then whack is comes right back with a vengeance! Swimming should be ok but just be very cautious, same with cycling! Honestly 11 weeks out, i think it will be very touch and go if you manage it....guess you could always run/walk it with no time in mind and just enjoy it (hopefully as pain free as possible).

Interesting - I have had stop start running all year, how many weeks did it take you to get back to old fitness/milage in terms of rebuilding fitness?

I was quite used to high volume / intensity (55-65 mpw with decent amount of climbing) and now 30 miles seems like 'nothing' but I guess I need to stage it very slowly as doing too much is just making me sick.

[AbzGuyGTI]

johnwilliams77 said:

Interesting - I have had stop start running all year, how many weeks did it take you to get back to old fitness/milage in terms of rebuilding fitness?

I was quite used to high volume / intensity (55-65 mpw with decent amount of climbing) and now 30 miles seems like 'nothing' but I guess I need to stage it very slowly as doing too much is just making me sick.

Took approx 3 months to get back to where i was mileage/pace wise! I'm not too dissimilar to you (i'm a hill/trail runner but do road races also to keep the speed) so built up mileage slowly making sure i wasn't over doing it with including much more S&C and i'm now a much stronger/fitter/faster runner than i was pre injury.