The Running Thread Vol 2

[johnwilliams77]

AbzGuyGTI said:

Took approx 3 months to get back to where i was mileage/pace wise! I'm not too dissimilar to you (i'm a hill/trail runner but do road races also to keep the speed) so built up mileage slowly making sure i wasn't over doing it with including much more S&C and i'm now a much stronger/fitter/faster runner than i was pre injury.

I've put in a couple of 30 miler weeks with little issue, going to keep it to 20-25 and watch my diet for a month maybe with a slow increase to see how I cope. Interesting that many people I know come back better after injury, as hard as it is to believe at the time!

[smn159]

Speaking of injuries... I'm down for the Berlin Marathon in just over 5 weeks and I suffered a bout of ITBS 15 miles into a 20 mile run last Sunday. Yesterday was the first day that I could walk without discomfort so tried an easy 5k today, which was OK.

Seeing the physio on Monday, will probably do my local parkrun on Saturday then see what she says before trying to start getting the mileage back up a bit. Have been stretching three times a day as well, which seems to be helping, plus the usual core strength work. Current problem seems to be tight quads, so focusing on those.

Bloody annoying though - training was otherwise going really well

[S1KRR]

GTO-3R said:

Thanks for all your replies, I'm really looking forward to the pain of using one now

I'll take it easy and see how I go!

eta: Why would you choose a 15cm one over 10cm? What difference does each make to how they work? I'm guessing with the 10cm being smaller it "digs in" a bit more?

My mistake. It's a 10cm diameter one. It's quite a soft foam, compared to the hard much narrower one I first encountered some years ago with a physio / coach. Its on Amazon IIRC

AbzGuyGTI said:

Ahhh the dreaded groin injury! Happened to me a couple years back...didn't think it was too bad, same as you could walk etc no bother but felt it when i started any kind of active movement quicker than a walk. Had physio, massage etc etc.. but the only thing that really worked (this is not what you want to hear) is REST.....oh and i was out for approx 3 months!!! Just DO NOT RUN!!

Groin injuries are a nightmare as you think you are fine and then whack is comes right back with a vengeance! Swimming should be ok but just be very cautious, same with cycling! Honestly 11 weeks out, i think it will be very touch and go if you manage it....guess you could always run/walk it with no time in mind and just enjoy it (hopefully as pain free as possible).

Ok, so the Physio I saw has given me a couple of strength exercises to do along with a stretch he wants me to do for the next week until my next appointment. He said NO to Swimming. It aggravates hip area injuries. And for me to try cycling a short distance and see how I feel the day after. If OK, then as much as I want to maintain aerobic capacity. He also estimated 4-6 weeks as "in theory" I'm not a extreme case. And that I am feeling a bit better day on day anyway. He did say NO RUNNING at all until we're at a point where the muscles are strong enough to allow it to be consistent. Which should be inside the 4-6 week window. Obviously all estimates, as everyone heals at different rates. He was optimistic I will be OK getting round NYC. Albeit not setting any PBs

smn159 said:

Speaking of injuries... I'm down for the Berlin Marathon in just over 5 weeks and I suffered a bout of ITBS 15 miles into a 20 mile run last Sunday. Yesterday was the first day that I could walk without discomfort so tried an easy 5k today, which was OK.

Seeing the physio on Monday, will probably do my local parkrun on Saturday then see what she says before trying to start getting the mileage back up a bit. Have been stretching three times a day as well, which seems to be helping, plus the usual core strength work. Current problem seems to be tight quads, so focusing on those.

Bloody annoying though - training was otherwise going really well

I enjoyed Berlin. The expo at Tempelhoff, (the old disused airport) to get your number is bigger than any expo I've ever seen in my life!

Tegel is the conversely, the dullest airport I've ever seen in my life! If you are interested Google the saga of the Brandenburg airport in Berlin! German efficiency my arse!


Are you rolling your ITB with a foam roller? I find that doing it once a week 10 days sufficient, and tends to stop to much tightness building up. I can tell when I've neglected it as I start to get knee pain.

[smn159]

S1KRR said:

Are you rolling your ITB with a foam roller? I find that doing it once a week 10 days sufficient, and tends to stop to much tightness building up. I can tell when I've neglected it as I start to get knee pain.

Yes, am rolling it as well as the quads. Google found these ITB stretches, which do seem to be helping, along with a range of quad stretches

https://youtu.be/M0e8FPL787E

5K was a bit achy afterwards, but at least I'm running again... 42k seems a long way off though with only 5 weeks to go!

[john_1983]

S1KRR said:

I enjoyed Berlin. The expo at Tempelhoff, (the old disused airport) to get your number is bigger than any expo I've ever seen in my life!

I ran it in 2016, and I'm doing it again this year - have they moved the expo? In 2016 it was at STATION Berlin, the old station next to the Technikmuseum - not Tempelhof

[irish boy]

Quick question guys.....

Started light running last year when turning 40, basically just park runs. Joined a jogging club in may and have done 2 10k races since. Longest I've run in one go is 8 miles, which felt ok.

The Belfast half marathon is in 4 weeks would it be a big step up from 6-8 miles up to the 13 with 4 weeks to prepare? Or is that just asking for injury.

[RobM77]

irish boy said:

The Belfast half marathon is in 4 weeks would it be a big step up from 6-8 miles up to the 13 with 4 weeks to prepare? Or is that just asking for injury.

It's certainly risky if you maintain the pace you're currently running at; that's more than the generally recommended increases. However, I'd have thought if you back the pace right off as you increase the distance then you'd be fine, as I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the total load on your muscles, tendons and joints that the recommended increases are guided by, rather than just distance per se..

[Halb]

RobM77 said:

It's certainly risky if you maintain the pace you're currently running at; that's more than the generally recommended increases. However, I'd have thought if you back the pace right off as you increase the distance then you'd be fine, as I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the total load on your muscles, tendons and joints that the recommended increases are guided by, rather than just distance per se..

is there a site which has the increase guide?

[ED209]

The Mrs is fed up. She had it the good for age time for London marathon however they have moved the goalposts, reducing the qualifying time by 4 mins 15 seconds. Put her about 30 seconds off a place.

Not good.

[S1KRR]

john_1983 said:

I ran it in 2016, and I'm doing it again this year - have they moved the expo? In 2016 it was at STATION Berlin, the old station next to the Technikmuseum - not Tempelhof

I was in 2014.

http://editing.bmw-berlin-marathon.com/en/your-rac...

Suggests its back where I went. Don't be fooled by the relatively small entrance hall. It's about 6 aircraft size hangers full of every sports trader and manufacturer you can think of!

U-bahn (Underground) is right next to it (Luftbrucke) Follow the thousands of others !

[Smitters]

When increasing running, you can increase frequency, pace and distance. Only one should be increased at a time, or you flirt with injury. Over 40, generally, more so. The accepted distance rule is increase by no more than 10% per week. For a safe margin, I like to increase my long run by 10% and keep the others the same when adding distance but I'm basically porcelain.

All that said, if you just want to get round, add a mile a week to your 8 and then rest up for a week. I'd go off really slow, walk the water stops and enjoy it. Or, if you want to perform at your best, I'd train with the club and pick a spring half.

Also, enter your local xc league. Cheap and competitive racing and a superb workout.

Enjoy, whatever, and let us know what you decide.

[RobM77]

Halb said:

RobM77 said:

It's certainly risky if you maintain the pace you're currently running at; that's more than the generally recommended increases. However, I'd have thought if you back the pace right off as you increase the distance then you'd be fine, as I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the total load on your muscles, tendons and joints that the recommended increases are guided by, rather than just distance per se..

is there a site which has the increase guide?

I was very careful there to say ‘generally accepted’, rather than a specific site. As Smitters says above, the generally accepted max increase in distance is about 10% per week. Google that and you’ll see loads of reputable sources such as Runner’s World etc. I’ve found myself that as I get older this has reduced somewhat and I tend to get injured when I up the pace, even by 10%.

Using that 10%, we can see that to get from 6-8 mile long runs up to 13 miles reliably in 4 weeks is not recommended. 7 + 10% compounded is: 7.7, 8.47, 9.32, 10.25. This is why I recommended backing off the pace as well if the poster is dead keen to get up to 13. To train properly for half marathons most runners will over-run anyway, so doing long runs of around 15 miles, and that’s certainly not possible. My advice would be to back right off, up the mileage at that pace, and do the event and enjoy it. Then start looking at training over 3-4 months plus to have a proper go at it.

[irish boy]

Smitters said:

When increasing running, you can increase frequency, pace and distance. Only one should be increased at a time, or you flirt with injury. Over 40, generally, more so. The accepted distance rule is increase by no more than 10% per week. For a safe margin, I like to increase my long run by 10% and keep the others the same when adding distance but I'm basically porcelain.

All that said, if you just want to get round, add a mile a week to your 8 and then rest up for a week. I'd go off really slow, walk the water stops and enjoy it. Or, if you want to perform at your best, I'd train with the club and pick a spring half.

Also, enter your local xc league. Cheap and competitive racing and a superb workout.

Enjoy, whatever, and let us know what you decide.

Cheers, good advice.

First 10k in may I did 47.50, pulled it under 45 for the next one last week, so the speed is ok and hopefully if I pull that right back to 9 min miles and enjoy it. I’ll do a longer run next week and see how it feels.

[john_1983]

S1KRR said:

I was in 2014.

http://editing.bmw-berlin-marathon.com/en/your-rac...

Suggests its back where I went. Don't be fooled by the relatively small entrance hall. It's about 6 aircraft size hangers full of every sports trader and manufacturer you can think of!

U-bahn (Underground) is right next to it (Luftbrucke) Follow the thousands of others !

I'm glad you posted that, as I wouldn't have read a single thing and just turned up where it was when I did it in 2016!

[Smitters]

Went out for a 10 miler. Accidentally did 15. Fml. So very, very tired at the end.

[over_the_hill]

RobM77 said:

Halb said:

RobM77 said:

It's certainly risky if you maintain the pace you're currently running at; that's more than the generally recommended increases. However, I'd have thought if you back the pace right off as you increase the distance then you'd be fine, as I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that it's the total load on your muscles, tendons and joints that the recommended increases are guided by, rather than just distance per se..

is there a site which has the increase guide?

I was very careful there to say ‘generally accepted’, rather than a specific site. As Smitters says above, the generally accepted max increase in distance is about 10% per week. Google that and you’ll see loads of reputable sources such as Runner’s World etc. I’ve found myself that as I get older this has reduced somewhat and I tend to get injured when I up the pace, even by 10%.

Using that 10%, we can see that to get from 6-8 mile long runs up to 13 miles reliably in 4 weeks is not recommended. 7 + 10% compounded is: 7.7, 8.47, 9.32, 10.25. This is why I recommended backing off the pace as well if the poster is dead keen to get up to 13. To train properly for half marathons most runners will over-run anyway, so doing long runs of around 15 miles, and that’s certainly not possible. My advice would be to back right off, up the mileage at that pace, and do the event and enjoy it. Then start looking at training over 3-4 months plus to have a proper go at it.

There are three main components - distance, speed and intensity. Ideally you should only be increasing one at a time to minimise injury risk.
Distance and speed are fairly straight forward. Intensity might be e.g. doing an interval session over the same distance and at the same pace but with less recovery.
But as noted above an increase of not more than about 10% per-week is the general recommendation.

Another big factor with the 6-8 mile long run will be total weekly mileage. If you are typically running every day and 6-8 is the longest run it will be less of a stretch than if you are running twice a week, although other cardiovascular exercise will give some input and benefit.

I would very much agree with over distance up to 15miles for a half but in 4 weeks this is not possible.

The buzz of the event on the day with all of the nervous energy and adrenalin will probably buy you an extra couple of miles as long as you don't get carried away at the start and set off too fast. Most people do because with all of the above they set off feeling really comfortable - which is still too fast !! You need to feel uncomfortably slow and clunky early on.

As RobM77 has noted if you back off the pace and concentrate on getting the miles up - to around 10/11 that should be enough to get you over the line.
Don't plan on doing too much the following week though.

Pace wise if you are properly trained you should be aiming for about 30-35 secs/mile slower than your parkrun/5k pace in a half marathon However, here I would aim for 45secs to a 1 min per-mile slower.

Edited by over_the_hill on Tuesday 27th August 12:15

[Mothersruin]

Smitters said:

Went out for a 10 miler. Accidentally did 15. Fml. So very, very tired at the end.

Thought I was going to do about 18k, ended up over 24k with over 1,000m climb. Zero breeze on the way up and I was cooked by half way. Turned into a walk, stumble, jog on the way back.

Slept well though.

[Smitters]

Mothersruin said:

Smitters said:

Went out for a 10 miler. Accidentally did 15. Fml. So very, very tired at the end.

Thought I was going to do about 18k, ended up over 24k with over 1,000m climb. Zero breeze on the way up and I was cooked by half way. Turned into a walk, stumble, jog on the way back.

Slept well though.

Same, except only 600m of climb. Found a tap with 3 miles to go. Spent some time hosing my head and back. Didn't fix my legs.

[FredClogs]

Got my first fell race tomorrow, mate talked (manipulated) me into it. Its only 5 miles but really looking forward to it. Paying £4 for a traditional local fell race certainly makes more sense than these day 5 and 10k races which cost 3 or 4 times that for a chip time and some crappy medal.

Obviously if I break my ankle in a rabbit burrow I'll take all that back.

[Smitters]

Hope the fell race went well.

UTMB week has been rolling on. The big race starts in a few mins... Exciting times.