The Running Thread Vol 2

[RobM77]

Congrats!! Great time.

Yes, it's a real shame about races. If you're running sub 40 10k then it's also perfectly possible to socially distance in a race; I tend to either be out on my own or tucked into a group of two or three, which is a choice, not a requirement.

[lufbramatt]

Thanks. First time I've done a sub-40 since before I started university 17 years ago. Never really did any road races as it always used to be track in the summer and XC in the winter and the high entry fees always put me off a bit. Next target is getting the Strava Half Marathon "badge", never ran that far before

If sports get back underway in the autumn/winter then I'm debating doing either the local cross country league or the East Kent cyclocross league. Family commitments mean it will be one or the other.

[RobM77]

lufbramatt said:

Thanks. First time I've done a sub-40 since before I started university 17 years ago. Never really did any road races as it always used to be track in the summer and XC in the winter and the high entry fees always put me off a bit. Next target is getting the Strava Half Marathon "badge", never ran that far before

If sports get back underway in the autumn/winter then I'm debating doing either the local cross country league or the East Kent cyclocross league. Family commitments mean it will be one or the other.

I've got my first half marathon this winter (if it happens!). I've never run one - the first time I tried I got a bad knee injury a month before and had to pull out. Ten years later I sorted my gait out to protect the knees, got ready to try again at the same race and it was postponed due to Covid... I run the distance every other Sunday on my long run, but that's at an easy, conversational pace, I've never raced the distance before. Fingers crossed!

[MattS5]

lufbramatt said:

Thanks, I had a look at the Kayanos but didn't really want to spend over £100. Ended up ordering a pair of GT2000-8s on the spur of the moment as I needed to spend over 100 euros on a website to get free delivery on some bike parts and the shop had them at a decent price. Looking forward to trying them out.

Had a bit of a breakthrough run on Tuesday. I started running again on March 23rd this year (lockdown day!) after a 7 month break due to a hamstring injury, so was avoiding running to concentrate on cycling events. When they all got cancelled I figured I had nothing to lose by trying to run again and have been alternating running and cycling days, roughly 15 miles running a week. Aim for the end of the year was a sub 40 min 10k. Managed a 38:35! super happy considering last September I had pretty much given up on running after a few false starts and recurring injuries. Shame there's no races on!

Woooaaajh, you can’t rock up talking of getting back to running after 7 months out, running just 15 miles a week and then dropping a sub 40 min 10k !

Some of us have tried to do that for 5 or 6 years and not succeeded yet......

Great running fella

[ajap1979]

RobM77 said:

I've got my first half marathon this winter (if it happens!). I've never run one - the first time I tried I got a bad knee injury a month before and had to pull out. Ten years later I sorted my gait out to protect the knees, got ready to try again at the same race and it was postponed due to Covid... I run the distance every other Sunday on my long run, but that's at an easy, conversational pace, I've never raced the distance before. Fingers crossed!

I've had some real nightmares running half marathon races. I always seem to overcomplicate my preparation, then have on several occasions over-fuelled during the race, taking on energy drinks and gels and being punished by the resultant sugar slump. Like you, I run them every week without really thinking about it, I really should just do the same on race day.

[feef]

ajap1979 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got my first half marathon this winter (if it happens!). I've never run one - the first time I tried I got a bad knee injury a month before and had to pull out. Ten years later I sorted my gait out to protect the knees, got ready to try again at the same race and it was postponed due to Covid... I run the distance every other Sunday on my long run, but that's at an easy, conversational pace, I've never raced the distance before. Fingers crossed!

I've had some real nightmares running half marathon races. I always seem to overcomplicate my preparation, then have on several occasions over-fuelled during the race, taking on energy drinks and gels and being punished by the resultant sugar slump. Like you, I run them every week without really thinking about it, I really should just do the same on race day.

I don't do any real fuelling for a half. Have a decent breakfast a couple of hours before and that's about it. That being said, I'm not especially quick

[lufbramatt]

MattS5 said:

lufbramatt said:

Thanks, I had a look at the Kayanos but didn't really want to spend over £100. Ended up ordering a pair of GT2000-8s on the spur of the moment as I needed to spend over 100 euros on a website to get free delivery on some bike parts and the shop had them at a decent price. Looking forward to trying them out.

Had a bit of a breakthrough run on Tuesday. I started running again on March 23rd this year (lockdown day!) after a 7 month break due to a hamstring injury, so was avoiding running to concentrate on cycling events. When they all got cancelled I figured I had nothing to lose by trying to run again and have been alternating running and cycling days, roughly 15 miles running a week. Aim for the end of the year was a sub 40 min 10k. Managed a 38:35! super happy considering last September I had pretty much given up on running after a few false starts and recurring injuries. Shame there's no races on!

Woooaaajh, you can’t rock up talking of getting back to running after 7 months out, running just 15 miles a week and then dropping a sub 40 min 10k !

Some of us have tried to do that for 5 or 6 years and not succeeded yet......

Great running fella

cheers- sorry- bit of background- I was a pretty handy middle distance runner as a teenager (3:54 1500m)- and apparently doing lots of a certain type of sport as a teenager sort of pre-conditions your muscle fibre structure which makes it easier to get back into that sport later in life. And I've been doing a decent amount of structured cycle training so already have an ok cardio "engine".

I've been making sure to include lots of hills in my routes and try to do as much off road as I can- one of my routes is 10.5 miles about 75% offroad with about 1000ft of climbing- but running at a decent pace. Never really bought into the "easy run" idea, I seem to get more niggles and aches and pains running slowly as I can't get into my natural stride. Everyone's different though.

Edited by lufbramatt on Thursday 9th July 16:13

[RobM77]

feef said:

ajap1979 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got my first half marathon this winter (if it happens!). I've never run one - the first time I tried I got a bad knee injury a month before and had to pull out. Ten years later I sorted my gait out to protect the knees, got ready to try again at the same race and it was postponed due to Covid... I run the distance every other Sunday on my long run, but that's at an easy, conversational pace, I've never raced the distance before. Fingers crossed!

I've had some real nightmares running half marathon races. I always seem to overcomplicate my preparation, then have on several occasions over-fuelled during the race, taking on energy drinks and gels and being punished by the resultant sugar slump. Like you, I run them every week without really thinking about it, I really should just do the same on race day.

I don't do any real fuelling for a half. Have a decent breakfast a couple of hours before and that's about it. That being said, I'm not especially quick

Yeah, the only problem there of course is that whilst I do run about 20km every Sunday morning on just two eggs, I do so at a really steady pace. Upping the pace is going to burn through energy reserves much more quickly, and at race pace, ketosis isn't an option because it's too slow. I've done a bit of research and plan to sip a sports drink before the start, then have a gel at 10km. Does that sound reasonable? The thing I do find really hard is grabbing drinks off tables and drinking them whilst running quickly - I can do it at my slow plod pace, but race pace?!

[RobM77]

lufbramatt said:

Never really bought into the "easy run" idea, I seem to get more niggles and aches and pains running slowly as I can't get into my natural stride. Everyone's different though.

Physiologically you need lots of easy miles to get endurance for distance running. However, yes, I've had these problems you describe too, as described earlier in this thread. When lockdown started in March I decided to embark on a 6 week base phase of easy miles, just with hills once a week and gym twice a week, and despite having done much harder training in preceding months, doing all the easy miles I got injured within weeks. I concluded that my form was breaking down at low speed, and the only way I climbed out of the cycle was to obsess over form and to not run too slowly. I had been watching my heart rate too keenly, but it turned out that running with average form 10secs/km slower than my easy pace actually results in a higher heart rate than running with good form at my easy pace, so you can get this weird effect where you back off and the HR doesn't drop. I concentrated on keeping the flow up and my injury faded.

[ajap1979]

feef said:

ajap1979 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got my first half marathon this winter (if it happens!). I've never run one - the first time I tried I got a bad knee injury a month before and had to pull out. Ten years later I sorted my gait out to protect the knees, got ready to try again at the same race and it was postponed due to Covid... I run the distance every other Sunday on my long run, but that's at an easy, conversational pace, I've never raced the distance before. Fingers crossed!

I've had some real nightmares running half marathon races. I always seem to overcomplicate my preparation, then have on several occasions over-fuelled during the race, taking on energy drinks and gels and being punished by the resultant sugar slump. Like you, I run them every week without really thinking about it, I really should just do the same on race day.

I don't do any real fuelling for a half. Have a decent breakfast a couple of hours before and that's about it. That being said, I'm not especially quick

Neither do I normally! I'll happy go out and run a half at 7 - 7:30 /mi on the back of just a cup of coffee. Race day nerves I guess!

[ajap1979]

RobM77 said:

Yeah, the only problem there of course is that whilst I do run about 20km every Sunday morning on just two eggs, I do so at a really steady pace. Upping the pace is going to burn through energy reserves much more quickly, and at race pace, ketosis isn't an option because it's too slow. I've done a bit of research and plan to sip a sports drink before the start, then have a gel at 10km. Does that sound reasonable? The thing I do find really hard is grabbing drinks off tables and drinking them whilst running quickly - I can do it at my slow plod pace, but race pace?!

I'd just make sure you do plenty of experimentation with the gels you plan to use, and potentially sip one over a few miles, rather than down in one. They're basically sugar so it's quite easy to experience a huge energy slump taking one in a single hit.

[RobM77]

ajap1979 said:

feef said:

ajap1979 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got my first half marathon this winter (if it happens!). I've never run one - the first time I tried I got a bad knee injury a month before and had to pull out. Ten years later I sorted my gait out to protect the knees, got ready to try again at the same race and it was postponed due to Covid... I run the distance every other Sunday on my long run, but that's at an easy, conversational pace, I've never raced the distance before. Fingers crossed!

I've had some real nightmares running half marathon races. I always seem to overcomplicate my preparation, then have on several occasions over-fuelled during the race, taking on energy drinks and gels and being punished by the resultant sugar slump. Like you, I run them every week without really thinking about it, I really should just do the same on race day.

I don't do any real fuelling for a half. Have a decent breakfast a couple of hours before and that's about it. That being said, I'm not especially quick

Neither do I normally! I'll happy go out and run a half at 7 - 7:30 /mi on the back of just a cup of coffee. Race day nerves I guess!

Is that fast for you though? For example, if you put your 5 or 10k time into a race pace calculator, what's your estimated pace for a half marathon? I'm wondering if you'd be faster with fuel.

[ajap1979]

RobM77 said:

lufbramatt said:

Never really bought into the "easy run" idea, I seem to get more niggles and aches and pains running slowly as I can't get into my natural stride. Everyone's different though.

Physiologically you need lots of easy miles to get endurance for distance running. However, yes, I've had these problems you describe too, as described earlier in this thread. When lockdown started in March I decided to embark on a 6 week base phase of easy miles, just with hills once a week and gym twice a week, and despite having done much harder training in preceding months, doing all the easy miles I got injured within weeks. I concluded that my form was breaking down at low speed, and the only way I climbed out of the cycle was to obsess over form and to not run too slowly. I had been watching my heart rate too keenly, but it turned out that running with average form 10secs/km slower than my easy pace actually results in a higher heart rate than running with good form at my easy pace, so you can get this weird effect where you back off and the HR doesn't drop. I concentrated on keeping the flow up and my injury faded.

The biggest gain for me this year was doing a load of Maffetone low heart rate training. It's really improved both my endurance and speed. I still mix it in to my training now.

[ajap1979]

RobM77 said:

ajap1979 said:

feef said:

ajap1979 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got my first half marathon this winter (if it happens!). I've never run one - the first time I tried I got a bad knee injury a month before and had to pull out. Ten years later I sorted my gait out to protect the knees, got ready to try again at the same race and it was postponed due to Covid... I run the distance every other Sunday on my long run, but that's at an easy, conversational pace, I've never raced the distance before. Fingers crossed!

I've had some real nightmares running half marathon races. I always seem to overcomplicate my preparation, then have on several occasions over-fuelled during the race, taking on energy drinks and gels and being punished by the resultant sugar slump. Like you, I run them every week without really thinking about it, I really should just do the same on race day.

I don't do any real fuelling for a half. Have a decent breakfast a couple of hours before and that's about it. That being said, I'm not especially quick

Neither do I normally! I'll happy go out and run a half at 7 - 7:30 /mi on the back of just a cup of coffee. Race day nerves I guess!

Is that fast for you though? For example, if you put your 5 or 10k time into a race pace calculator, what's your estimated pace for a half marathon? I'm wondering if you'd be faster with fuel.

I'd almost certainly be faster with fuel, however that assumes I get it right. I thinks it's the gels I struggle with to be honest. I'd probably be fine with half a bottle of High5 energy drink. I don't think you need water at that sort of distance, even at a hard effort.

[Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area]

In my admittedly limited experience of halfs I’ve found that taking a 250ml silicone flask with High5 or similar in it is ideal. They’re no trouble to carry and easy to sip from. I have one of these which is much more durable than cheaper versions

https://www.inov-8.com/softflask-0-25l-bottle

[lufbramatt]

ajap1979 said:

RobM77 said:

lufbramatt said:

Never really bought into the "easy run" idea, I seem to get more niggles and aches and pains running slowly as I can't get into my natural stride. Everyone's different though.

Physiologically you need lots of easy miles to get endurance for distance running. However, yes, I've had these problems you describe too, as described earlier in this thread. When lockdown started in March I decided to embark on a 6 week base phase of easy miles, just with hills once a week and gym twice a week, and despite having done much harder training in preceding months, doing all the easy miles I got injured within weeks. I concluded that my form was breaking down at low speed, and the only way I climbed out of the cycle was to obsess over form and to not run too slowly. I had been watching my heart rate too keenly, but it turned out that running with average form 10secs/km slower than my easy pace actually results in a higher heart rate than running with good form at my easy pace, so you can get this weird effect where you back off and the HR doesn't drop. I concentrated on keeping the flow up and my injury faded.

The biggest gain for me this year was doing a load of Maffetone low heart rate training. It's really improved both my endurance and speed. I still mix it in to my training now.

Yes I definitely think it’s a form issue. If I go running with my wife ~9min/mile pace I can feel my knee start niggling after about 30 mins as I’m running with a heel strike rather than fore foot strike.

In terms of endurance from an energy system point of view I’m getting that from 4+ hour bike rides so don’t feel the need for (or enjoy doing) loads of easy running miles.

[ajap1979]

That's very common with cyclists. I know a few very keen cyclists who also happen to be very good runners and they never put in any of the long slow stuff I have to. I enjoy them though, they give me an opportunity to work on my form and they're obviously great for recovery.

[joshcowin]

ajap1979 said:

That's very common with cyclists. I know a few very keen cyclists who also happen to be very good runners and they never put in any of the long slow stuff I have to. I enjoy them though, they give me an opportunity to work on my form and they're obviously great for recovery.

Interesting, I am currently doing 1 3 hour+ bike ride a week and a long run! Recon its worth knocking the long run on the head? I enjoy both so that's not an issue!

Currently do 3 rides a week and 4 to 5 runs

[smn159]

joshcowin said:

ajap1979 said:

That's very common with cyclists. I know a few very keen cyclists who also happen to be very good runners and they never put in any of the long slow stuff I have to. I enjoy them though, they give me an opportunity to work on my form and they're obviously great for recovery.

Interesting, I am currently doing 1 3 hour+ bike ride a week and a long run! Recon its worth knocking the long run on the head? I enjoy both so that's not an issue!

Currently do 3 rides a week and 4 to 5 runs

If you want to race longer distances then I'd keep the long runs personally on the basis that it's as much about preparing your whole body for longer time spent running as it is maintaining cardio fitness.

[joshcowin]

smn159 said:

If you want to race longer distances then I'd keep the long runs personally on the basis that it's as much about preparing your whole body for longer time spent running as it is maintaining cardio fitness.

Thanks, following a HM garmin programme at the moment and just building bike fitness and getting efficient at riding (started riding properly 6 months ago).