2017 Lions Tour
Discussion
Legend83 said:
Disappointed with the manner of the result (falling asleep at the wrong moments) but pleased that our backs rocked the ABs a bit. No disgrace in losing to a team of that quality who do the basics, the extraordinary and the dark arts better than anyone.
Think people are being a touch harsh on AWJ - he made 11 tackles in his 47 minutes at a 100% success rate and after he went off both the scrum and the defence noticeably deteriorated. Kruis was by far the worst lock on the pitch which was a shame given his warm up form.
Murray was very one dimensional - his box kicking was excellent but once we weren't getting any change from it he didn't know what to do.
Farrell was below par but it's hard to play well at 10 when the pack is going backwards!
JD was excellent, LW did what he does best (that blunder aside) and Sinckler was a bright spark when he came on.
Won't forget that Lions try!
Good summary. Agreed on - I think - all points, especially re AWJ and Kruis. JD showed us that he has the rare mix of brain, speed and brawn that you need to be a REALLY good centre.Think people are being a touch harsh on AWJ - he made 11 tackles in his 47 minutes at a 100% success rate and after he went off both the scrum and the defence noticeably deteriorated. Kruis was by far the worst lock on the pitch which was a shame given his warm up form.
Murray was very one dimensional - his box kicking was excellent but once we weren't getting any change from it he didn't know what to do.
Farrell was below par but it's hard to play well at 10 when the pack is going backwards!
JD was excellent, LW did what he does best (that blunder aside) and Sinckler was a bright spark when he came on.
Won't forget that Lions try!
The difference between today and the winning warm-up games was in the forwards ability to win and retain the ball. This part of the game was played at another level, and we were found lacking today. Quite a few will know that they didn't do themselves proud and will be motivated to put this right next time. Better to give them that chance than to try to change track IMHO.
hornetrider said:
We were blasted at the breakdown today by a combination of f
k all jackal from SOB and Peypers st reffing. I would drop POM next week and go with SOB at 6, Sam 7 and Faletau at 8. Poite will reward Sam's work.
Spot on, and that would have been my back row for today. As for AWJ, it's bonkers to suggest not starting him IMO. k all jackal from SOB and Peypers st reffing. I would drop POM next week and go with SOB at 6, Sam 7 and Faletau at 8. Poite will reward Sam's work.Leithen said:
Maybe I'm reading the wrong articles or listening to the wrong media, but too little is made of the inherent deficit of performance the Lions can always expect to suffer, regardless of how exceptional the individuals are and how good their form is.
The problem with that is that it exposes how flawed a concept is in the current professional era. They're always going to play inferior rugby to at least two or three of the constituent nations these days, and really only exist for the money they make.British & Irish Lions (v Hurricanes, Tuesday June 27, Westpac Stadium, Wellington, 7.35pm NZST/8.35am BST)
15. Jack Nowell – Exeter Chiefs, England, #828
14. Tommy Seymour – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland, #813
13. Jonathan Joseph – Bath Rugby, England, #809
12. Robbie Henshaw – Leinster, Ireland, #824
11. George North – Northampton Saints, Wales, #792
10. Dan Biggar – Ospreys, Wales, #821
9. Greig Laidlaw – Gloucester, Scotland, #810
1. Joe Marler – Harlequins, England, #811
2. Rory Best (c) – Ulster, Ireland, #793
3. Dan Cole – Leicester Tigers, England, #794
4. Iain Henderson – Ulster, Ireland, #808
5. Courtney Lawes – Northampton Saints, England, #826
6. James Haskell – Wasps, England, #823
7. Justin Tipuric – Ospreys, Wales, #786
8. CJ Stander – Munster, Ireland, #831
Replacements:
16. Kristian Dacey – Cardiff Blues, Wales
17. Allan Dell – Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland, ~834
18. Tomas Francis – Exeter Chiefs, Wales
19. Cory Hill – Newport Gwent Dragons, Wales
20. George Kruis – Saracens, England, # 817
21. Gareth Davies – Scarlets, Wales
22. Finn Russell – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland
23. Jared Payne – Ulster, Ireland, #830
15. Jack Nowell – Exeter Chiefs, England, #828
14. Tommy Seymour – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland, #813
13. Jonathan Joseph – Bath Rugby, England, #809
12. Robbie Henshaw – Leinster, Ireland, #824
11. George North – Northampton Saints, Wales, #792
10. Dan Biggar – Ospreys, Wales, #821
9. Greig Laidlaw – Gloucester, Scotland, #810
1. Joe Marler – Harlequins, England, #811
2. Rory Best (c) – Ulster, Ireland, #793
3. Dan Cole – Leicester Tigers, England, #794
4. Iain Henderson – Ulster, Ireland, #808
5. Courtney Lawes – Northampton Saints, England, #826
6. James Haskell – Wasps, England, #823
7. Justin Tipuric – Ospreys, Wales, #786
8. CJ Stander – Munster, Ireland, #831
Replacements:
16. Kristian Dacey – Cardiff Blues, Wales
17. Allan Dell – Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland, ~834
18. Tomas Francis – Exeter Chiefs, Wales
19. Cory Hill – Newport Gwent Dragons, Wales
20. George Kruis – Saracens, England, # 817
21. Gareth Davies – Scarlets, Wales
22. Finn Russell – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland
23. Jared Payne – Ulster, Ireland, #830
TheGreatSoprendo said:
Spot on, and that would have been my back row for today. As for AWJ, it's bonkers to suggest not starting him IMO.
I would start AWJ again too. Immense in scrum. Itoje seemed all over the place (not in a good way) when he came on, added very little surprisingly. Sexton the same.I would start Laws and AWJ.
Those who said Falateau did nothing must have been watching Badminton. His work rate off the ball and deft hands are outstanding.
Kruis out of his depth, our front row were easily tamed.
Warbs a metre off the pace. Teo and Davies worked well, and like Farrell as 10. Murray box kicked and did zippo else IMV. No snipes, no breaks. Williams and Watson, Daley good threats, no way North should start. SOB good, POM ?. Taken substituted and rightly so.
Last tried flattered the score a little. Next test and I believe it will be a greater margin.
Robbo66 said:
I would start AWJ again too. Immense in scrum. Itoje seemed all over the place (not in a good way) when he came on, added very little surprisingly. Sexton the same.
I would start Laws and AWJ.
Those who said Falateau did nothing must have been watching Badminton. His work rate off the ball and deft hands are outstanding.
Kruis out of his depth, our front row were easily tamed.
Warbs a metre off the pace. Teo and Davies worked well, and like Farrell as 10. Murray box kicked and did zippo else IMV. No snipes, no breaks. Williams and Watson, Daley good threats, no way North should start. SOB good, POM ?. Taken substituted and rightly so.
Last tried flattered the score a little. Next test and I believe it will be a greater margin.
Not read the previous replies on the other pages. Not seeing what you're seeing with AWJ he was blowing out his arse after 10 minutes, he simply isn't dynamic/fit enough to keep up with the pace of a game like that.I would start Laws and AWJ.
Those who said Falateau did nothing must have been watching Badminton. His work rate off the ball and deft hands are outstanding.
Kruis out of his depth, our front row were easily tamed.
Warbs a metre off the pace. Teo and Davies worked well, and like Farrell as 10. Murray box kicked and did zippo else IMV. No snipes, no breaks. Williams and Watson, Daley good threats, no way North should start. SOB good, POM ?. Taken substituted and rightly so.
Last tried flattered the score a little. Next test and I believe it will be a greater margin.
For me the AB's were next level. It was tangible last night as the AB's took their chances and demonstrated why they're a level above any other team with those handling skills.
I still think the Lions can take a game but there's a chance the AB's take it up another notch still.
Overall I thought some of the stand out performers of the tour had a mediocre performance yesterday. Farrell, Murray were OK, Kruis had had the worst game I've seen him in.
This might be slightly controversial but although Davies had a good game I thought someone with more pace i.e JJ would have caused the AB's more problems.
The substitutions last night and their timings were a bit bonkers for me. Took me back to when Stuart Lancaster was in charge of England where he seemed to make pre-planned substitutions. it wasn't quite as bad as that last night, however.
Ownes comes on for Gerorge who'd not missed a line all night straight in for a pressure throw.
POM goes off for Warburton with the former taking good lineout ball all night.
1/2p just isn't a bench player.
POM kind of let himself down last night with the captiancy, he needed to get in Pyper's ear about the lineout as I'm pretty sure the AB's 'defusing' was illegal.
Te'o has SBW in his pocket all game. And was taken off.
minus Webb and Itoje the subs just had no impact. for the next test we need more dynamic bench options. Stander for one no Warburton, no 1/2p. Vunipola was good but I think he'd offer more off the bench than the other options. I'd also start Cole. Furlong looked out his depth last night at times.
All in all the AB's were just damm impressive, they saw the Lions were coming with a forward orientated game and strong defensive press and took it to the Lions in the tight and won the collisions all night.
a311 said:
we need more dynamic bench options. Stander for one no Warburton, no 1/2p
This probably isn't what you meant but I wouldn't be surprised to see Warbs and 1/2p in the starting line up. We were nowhere at the breakdown yesterday and Warbs is the best option to remedy that (personally I'd move SOB to 6). Liam Williams was good in attack but made a couple of mistakes defensively so wouldn't be surprised to see him moved to the wing or bench.TheGreatSoprendo said:
mikal83 said:
I am still trying to work out why the BEST players from the 6N, didn't get picked
Is it because we can't select French and Italian players or are you getting at something else?TheGreatSoprendo said:
mikal83 said:
I am still trying to work out why the BEST players from the 6N, didn't get picked
Is it because we can't select French and Italian players or are you getting at something else?mikal83 said:
TheGreatSoprendo said:
mikal83 said:
I am still trying to work out why the BEST players from the 6N, didn't get picked
Is it because we can't select French and Italian players or are you getting at something else?Bear in mind also that the Lions have Kruis & Itoje locking, so it probably makes a lot of sense to have their clubmate throwing into the line.
mikal83 said:
Ok I'll bite. Why was George, Hartleys sub put b4 him? Did/has George started any English game?
Bite? 
As for Jamie George, many (myself included) rate him as a better player than Hartley and certainly less hot headed. I suspect if Hartley wasn't captain, George would already have surpassed him for England.
Oh, and Gatland knows a thing or two about hookers (there's a rumour for you
)GravelBen said:
Edited for you to give a different spin. 
2nd game maybe, but with tried and tested combinations. 1,3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 15 all pretty much the mainstays of that team over the past couple of seasonsFor the Lions it's a case of 'Hello, pleased to meet you" or in the case of those 4 random Welsh replacements 'Sorry, I didn't catch your name'.
TheGreatSoprendo said:
This probably isn't what you meant but I wouldn't be surprised to see Warbs and 1/2p in the starting line up. We were nowhere at the breakdown yesterday and Warbs is the best option to remedy that (personally I'd move SOB to 6). Liam Williams was good in attack but made a couple of mistakes defensively so wouldn't be surprised to see him moved to the wing or bench.
I didn't see that Warburton added much at all when he came on Saturday. In terms of 1/2p he either starts or is dropped entirely for me he offers nothing from the bench although with Farrell's kicking jitters I can see that case too.Again though. we need that attacking flair/threat, is that increased or decreased with 1/2p starting? If anything the Lions showed it's very unlikely they're going to be able to choke the life out the AB's to win.
TheGreatSoprendo said:
mikal83 said:
Ok I'll bite. Why was George, Hartleys sub put b4 him? Did/has George started any English game?
Bite? As for Jamie George, many (myself included) rate him as a better player than Hartley and certainly less hot headed. I suspect if Hartley wasn't captain, George would already have surpassed him for England.
Oh, and Gatland knows a thing or two about hookers (there's a rumour for you
)te?Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff