2017 Lions Tour
Discussion
The bigger more glaring error was taking the geographical six and not playing them, ensuring any dirt trackers had virtually no chance of making the test side.
Ordinarily Henderson would have been replaced early on in the midweek game and would have had an opportunity for selection this weekend. Instead he had to play 80 minutes as Gatland didn't want to devalue the shirt by bringing on the Welsh subs.
f
king ridiculous situation all of his own making. It was always going to be a mountain to climb, but this tour will be remembered for this selection debacle when they pick apart the bones of the likely whitewash.
Quite how professionals paid an awful lot of money can make these type of decisions is completely beyond me.
Ordinarily Henderson would have been replaced early on in the midweek game and would have had an opportunity for selection this weekend. Instead he had to play 80 minutes as Gatland didn't want to devalue the shirt by bringing on the Welsh subs.
f
king ridiculous situation all of his own making. It was always going to be a mountain to climb, but this tour will be remembered for this selection debacle when they pick apart the bones of the likely whitewash.Quite how professionals paid an awful lot of money can make these type of decisions is completely beyond me.
skahigh said:
The truth is that none of the second rows have been very impressive on tour, the exception for me being Henderson, who was immense against the Hurricanes.
Not that surprising given Launchbury, with multiple MoTM awards for the winning team if there six nations didn't make the tour. I think Itoje and Lawes have done some good work but agree Henderson was outstanding.AWJ is not the form lock on the tour but I quite like the balance of his strength, experience and nous with the youthful energy and athleticism of Itoje. Could be a good combo.
Not quite sure what Te'o has done to get dropped to accomodate a JS/OF combo - I thought Farrell was distinctly average at both 10 and 12 last Saturday and Sexton just tried too hard and failed when he came on.
Not quite sure what Te'o has done to get dropped to accomodate a JS/OF combo - I thought Farrell was distinctly average at both 10 and 12 last Saturday and Sexton just tried too hard and failed when he came on.
Utter shambles of a line up. AWJ should not be in the team by any stretch of the imagination and neither should Sexton.
The AB only started playing when Teo went off, SBW and the like will run riot with Farrell and Sexton in defence. We also now have very little power in the centres so a crash ball isn't going to be an option. Warbuton should not be in the team, out of form and will be outclassed and out muscled by Kaino and Cane. Why Henderson didn't make the team I do not know, he played out of his skin. Gutted is an understatement- We could have won this tour had selection and tactics been up to scratch, but Warren and his chums have done a tremendous job of screwing it all up, and ruining the Lions legacy.
The AB only started playing when Teo went off, SBW and the like will run riot with Farrell and Sexton in defence. We also now have very little power in the centres so a crash ball isn't going to be an option. Warbuton should not be in the team, out of form and will be outclassed and out muscled by Kaino and Cane. Why Henderson didn't make the team I do not know, he played out of his skin. Gutted is an understatement- We could have won this tour had selection and tactics been up to scratch, but Warren and his chums have done a tremendous job of screwing it all up, and ruining the Lions legacy.
I find it a baffling selection.
If I had to guess I would say that Gatland has decided to have Sexton kick for territory instead of having Murray box kicking the ball away. I'm not sure that taking Kruis off is a good idea as he had been calling the lineout. Presumably Itoje is there to act as a fourth back row forward in the loose. Dropping Te'o is not smart.
If I had to guess I would say that Gatland has decided to have Sexton kick for territory instead of having Murray box kicking the ball away. I'm not sure that taking Kruis off is a good idea as he had been calling the lineout. Presumably Itoje is there to act as a fourth back row forward in the loose. Dropping Te'o is not smart.
Gatland predictably reverting to type yet again with AWJ and Warburton. Both have played poorly throughoit the tour and both are out of form and there are better in form payers to take their places. Why on Earth Courtney Lawes and Iain Henderson aren't starting is beyond me. George Kruis has had one mediocre game but AWJ has not done anything at all this tour.
Score predictions?
Score predictions?
El stovey said:
Gatland predictably reverting to type yet again with AWJ and Warburton. Both have played poorly throughoit the tour and both are out of form and there are better in form payers to take their places. Why on Earth Courtney Lawes and Iain Henderson aren't starting is beyond me. George Kruis has had one mediocre game but AWJ has not done anything at all this tour.
Score predictions?
I'd be surprised if we score- I'd say 45-9. I can see the All Blacks running away with this. Score predictions?
skahigh said:
This AWJ thing is being overblown on here, Jerry Guscott doesn't agree that he should be dropped.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40419289
The truth is that none of the second rows have been very impressive on tour, the exception for me being Henderson, who was immense against the Hurricanes.
TBH I can't stand JG (for others on here it is Jonathon, Jiffy, Davis for me it's Guscott). Leaving personal opinions to one side I think that AWJ has been the poorest of the 2nd rows.http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40419289
The truth is that none of the second rows have been very impressive on tour, the exception for me being Henderson, who was immense against the Hurricanes.
For me the standout player in the position is Lawes, he has been immense
Greg66 said:
I find it a baffling selection.
If I had to guess I would say that Gatland has decided to have Sexton kick for territory instead of having Murray box kicking the ball away. I'm not sure that taking Kruis off is a good idea as he had been calling the lineout. Presumably Itoje is there to act as a fourth back row forward in the loose. Dropping Te'o is not smart.
Murray and Sexton together again for some Ireland beating all blacks awesomeness? If I had to guess I would say that Gatland has decided to have Sexton kick for territory instead of having Murray box kicking the ball away. I'm not sure that taking Kruis off is a good idea as he had been calling the lineout. Presumably Itoje is there to act as a fourth back row forward in the loose. Dropping Te'o is not smart.
Not that they'll get much ball anyway without O’Mahony and Kruis in the lineout.
El stovey said:
Gatland predictably reverting to type yet again with AWJ and Warburton. Both have played poorly throughoit the tour and both are out of form and there are better in form payers to take their places. Why on Earth Courtney Lawes and Iain Henderson aren't starting is beyond me. George Kruis has had one mediocre game but AWJ has not done anything at all this tour.
Score predictions?
Henderson got screwed over by the decision to not use the "geographical" subs for anything other than injury or HIA cover, which meant he played the full 80 against the Hurricanes (minus his sin-bin of course).Score predictions?
Only reason I can see for SW being in the team is to slow the ball down which to be fair, was a big reason for the ABs dominance in the first Test - Smith seemed to be shifting the ball out within a second of a ruck forming!
DocJock said:
So true. T'eo's wrap-up tackling, stopping the offload, was fantastic and he made more line breaks than anyone.
Sonny Bill Williams must be laughing at T'eos non selection. It's a massive gamble by Gatland.I'm worried this will be a high score for the all blacks. Hopefully it will rain epically.
My enthusiasm for Saturday's game plummeted when I saw the side unfortunately.
I can see the ABs steamrolling up the middle constantly and getting the 'round the back offloads away as the 10/12 axis isn't strong or solid enough to do the job Te'o did last week. Both are good tacklers and for all his faults (less and less as he matures) Farrell is a really solid tackler but is unlikely to put SBW on his 4rse in a 'front up' midfield. I also don't think either are big/tall enough to wrap SBW up. Hence the offload 'round the back which he is well known for and keeping the ball alive.
I haven't even read Guscott's bit about AWJ. I really don't get it. AWJ seemed to be blowing hard early on and the fact that he couldn't hide it wasn't a great sign in my view.
At least we may have some more territorial kicking from Sexton rather than box kick after box kick. I hate box kicks - especially those ones that are so telegraphed that the AB back 3 simply get into position and run on to the resulting ball at full pace. Mindless. If our kick chase is good enough, their forwards are still too quick and fit so on the 2nd or 3rd phase of their subsequent attack, they will have mismatches all over the place and then simply run around us.
So in my desolate view, they will run through us up the middle and then when we are a little tired, they will run around us out wide and score maybe 20 points in Q4 as is there M.O.
Grumpy!!!
I can see the ABs steamrolling up the middle constantly and getting the 'round the back offloads away as the 10/12 axis isn't strong or solid enough to do the job Te'o did last week. Both are good tacklers and for all his faults (less and less as he matures) Farrell is a really solid tackler but is unlikely to put SBW on his 4rse in a 'front up' midfield. I also don't think either are big/tall enough to wrap SBW up. Hence the offload 'round the back which he is well known for and keeping the ball alive.
I haven't even read Guscott's bit about AWJ. I really don't get it. AWJ seemed to be blowing hard early on and the fact that he couldn't hide it wasn't a great sign in my view.
At least we may have some more territorial kicking from Sexton rather than box kick after box kick. I hate box kicks - especially those ones that are so telegraphed that the AB back 3 simply get into position and run on to the resulting ball at full pace. Mindless. If our kick chase is good enough, their forwards are still too quick and fit so on the 2nd or 3rd phase of their subsequent attack, they will have mismatches all over the place and then simply run around us.
So in my desolate view, they will run through us up the middle and then when we are a little tired, they will run around us out wide and score maybe 20 points in Q4 as is there M.O.
Grumpy!!!
Yeah I'm a bit pissed about the line-up on Saturday, but Gatland has well and truly rolled the dice here so will withhold too much criticism until I see if it comes off. It's meant to be forecast to piss down on Saturday so having two play maker/ kicking options on the pitch kind of makes sense to go for a territory game.
My main issues are AWJ and Warburton starting the former was exposed for lack of mobility last week and the latter is short of match fitness and game time. The only reason they've been seemingly is they are Gatland's boys.
My main issues are AWJ and Warburton starting the former was exposed for lack of mobility last week and the latter is short of match fitness and game time. The only reason they've been seemingly is they are Gatland's boys.
a311 said:
My main issues are AWJ and Warburton starting the former was exposed for lack of mobility last week and the latter is short of match fitness and game time. The only reason they've been seemingly is they are Gatland's boys.
Lions call ups by nation:Eng - 17
Wales - 16
Ire - 11
Sco - 5
Plus Howley.
No nothing odd about that.
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