The Golf Thread - 2017!
Discussion
thebraketester said:
Thanks guys... Going again on Friday... probably go around in over 100 again no doubt. :-)
Keep it in play. Don't choose to try a shot that has a 10% chance of saving you a shot and a 30% chance of costing you a shot.Try to ignore the temptation to play a birdy strategy - that way lies cabbage and wet feet.
Pay close attention to the challenge the course designer has laid out for you on each hole. If there's trouble at 250 yards, then firstly, make sure you notice it, and then make sure you play for 225, not 275.
You'd be amazed how many people's thought process is okpar4driversmas
tfinditsmastagain. Instead of something like: - What gets me an 8 iron to the heart of the green in two?
- 350 yards, minus 140 yards = 210 yards.
- 5 wood or 3 hybrid. Hmm, too windy for the 5 wood, might balloon it. 3 hybrid instead, might leave me a 7 iron in, instead of an 8 iron.
- I can live with that. Do I want to be coming in from the right or the left...?
- etc.
- etc.
Most golfers are probably as accurate from 100 yards as they are from 50, yet they take all sorts of risks to get to 50 yards away, when they could put themselves 100 yards out much more reliably.
Triple bogeys are very very easy, but the albatrosses you will need to balance them out are impossible. So take the middle path.
Par and bogey are the only results you need to put together a good score, and to make yourself hard to beat at matchplay. Most golfers will hand you 3-6 holes on a plate by playing themselves out of the hole. Make sure you don't hand them back so freely.
If your guy is in big merde and going to get a 7 or 8 then make sure you play for a 5. Going Johnny Large-Potatoes for a 3 or 4 in that situation, making a hash of it, and not winning the hole is the ultimate crime in matchplay.
Thanks for that advice. I am certainly guilty of trying to smash the living daylights out of the tee shot rather than 'playing the hole'.
I was pretty happy with most of my iron shots (usually if I miss hit them the go straight and low rather than left or right), but I am still hitting 80% of shots with the driver with quite a bad fade which would be fine if that's what I intended. If I tried to fade it I bet I couldn't do it.
I was pretty happy with most of my iron shots (usually if I miss hit them the go straight and low rather than left or right), but I am still hitting 80% of shots with the driver with quite a bad fade which would be fine if that's what I intended. If I tried to fade it I bet I couldn't do it.
Touring Pros winning $10m a year will leave the driver out if they don't feel their swing is up to the job that day.
I think propensity towards driver usage (averaged) follows a u-shaped curve.
The very very best use driver a lot (because they're good enough to keep it straight, and long enough to carry a lot of trouble. Par 5s become Par 4s and that's very helpful in playing to +3)
Good and good-ish golfers use it relatively sparingly (because they understand their limitations, and are conscious of the cost/benefit of an extra 30 yards versus the risks)
Bad golfers use it a lot (because they see the pros use it and think that's just how it's done, without regard to whether they can actually do it. They aren't thinking critically about the cost/benefits in their hands, rather than in Rory McIlroy's). The Dunning-Kruger Effect could have been invented specifically to explain the shot choices of bad golfers!
(obviously, I'm only talking averages, there will be big exceptions at all levels)
God might love a trier, but the Golfing Gods love to smite those who over-reach!
I think propensity towards driver usage (averaged) follows a u-shaped curve.
The very very best use driver a lot (because they're good enough to keep it straight, and long enough to carry a lot of trouble. Par 5s become Par 4s and that's very helpful in playing to +3)
Good and good-ish golfers use it relatively sparingly (because they understand their limitations, and are conscious of the cost/benefit of an extra 30 yards versus the risks)
Bad golfers use it a lot (because they see the pros use it and think that's just how it's done, without regard to whether they can actually do it. They aren't thinking critically about the cost/benefits in their hands, rather than in Rory McIlroy's). The Dunning-Kruger Effect could have been invented specifically to explain the shot choices of bad golfers!
(obviously, I'm only talking averages, there will be big exceptions at all levels)
God might love a trier, but the Golfing Gods love to smite those who over-reach!
SpeckledJim said:
Touring Pros winning $10m a year will leave the driver out if they don't feel their swing is up to the job that day.
I think propensity towards driver usage (averaged) follows a u-shaped curve.
The very very best use driver a lot (because they're good enough to keep it straight, and long enough to carry a lot of trouble. Par 5s become Par 4s and that's very helpful in playing to +3)
Good and good-ish golfers use it relatively sparingly (because they understand their limitations, and are conscious of the cost/benefit of an extra 30 yards versus the risks)
Bad golfers use it a lot (because they see the pros use it and think that's just how it's done, without regard to whether they can actually do it. They aren't thinking critically about the cost/benefits in their hands, rather than in Rory McIlroy's). The Dunning-Kruger Effect could have been invented specifically to explain the shot choices of bad golfers!
(obviously, I'm only talking averages, there will be big exceptions at all levels)
God might love a trier, but the Golfing Gods love to smite those who over-reach!
Half my issue is that although not being straight 100% of the time, if I don't use the driver a good chunk of the time I'm then left with +175 yards in to most greens, just not good enough for a 9 handicapper to leave myself close enough to the pin. I do also suffer with at least 1 double (often a triple!) every round....I think propensity towards driver usage (averaged) follows a u-shaped curve.
The very very best use driver a lot (because they're good enough to keep it straight, and long enough to carry a lot of trouble. Par 5s become Par 4s and that's very helpful in playing to +3)
Good and good-ish golfers use it relatively sparingly (because they understand their limitations, and are conscious of the cost/benefit of an extra 30 yards versus the risks)
Bad golfers use it a lot (because they see the pros use it and think that's just how it's done, without regard to whether they can actually do it. They aren't thinking critically about the cost/benefits in their hands, rather than in Rory McIlroy's). The Dunning-Kruger Effect could have been invented specifically to explain the shot choices of bad golfers!
(obviously, I'm only talking averages, there will be big exceptions at all levels)
God might love a trier, but the Golfing Gods love to smite those who over-reach!
A lot does depend on the course though, I go somewhere easier (Chelsfield Lakes, Birchwood, Lullingstone, Sutton Green) I'll shoot level most days, my own home course I'm rarely below my handicap, huge difference!
kiethton said:
Half my issue is that although not being straight 100% of the time, if I don't use the driver a good chunk of the time I'm then left with +175 yards in to most greens, just not good enough for a 9 handicapper to leave myself close enough to the pin. I do also suffer with at least 1 double (often a triple!) every round....
A lot does depend on the course though, I go somewhere easier (Chelsfield Lakes, Birchwood, Lullingstone, Sutton Green) I'll shoot level most days, my own home course I'm rarely below my handicap, huge difference!
Point taken, and off 9 you're probably swinging well enough to get a benefit from a driver (but not all the time, or in the wrong places).A lot does depend on the course though, I go somewhere easier (Chelsfield Lakes, Birchwood, Lullingstone, Sutton Green) I'll shoot level most days, my own home course I'm rarely below my handicap, huge difference!
Your round is 9 pars and 9 bogeys. If, without driver, you're reliably 175 yards from the green on 10 par 4s, then that's effectively turned your par 4s into par threes, at the cost of 10 shots.
Would you expect 50% pars and 50% bogeys over ten 175 yard par 3s? Off 9, that sounds a reasonable expectation to me.
If you took driver instead, those ten 175 yard par 3s might become eight 145 yard par threes, and two double bogeys? So will you score sufficiently better on the eight shorter par threes to over-compensate from the two bad drives?
Maybe, maybe not - it depends on your game. It's hard to generalise as every player is different.
Or thought about in a different way:
How many shots would you take around a 10-hole par three course of length 1750 yards. And how many shots on the same course If you tee'd up 30 yards further forwards, so 1450 yards?
If the difference is more than the honest cost of your driver in terms of penalties and wasted shots, then it's worth taking. If the difference is less, then the driver is costing you more than it's giving you. Maybe worth some analysis and some honest self-appraisal.
kiethton said:
Half my issue is that although not being straight 100% of the time, if I don't use the driver a good chunk of the time I'm then left with +175 yards in to most greens, just not good enough for a 9 handicapper to leave myself close enough to the pin. I do also suffer with at least 1 double (often a triple!) every round....
A lot does depend on the course though, I go somewhere easier (Chelsfield Lakes, Birchwood, Lullingstone, Sutton Green) I'll shoot level most days, my own home course I'm rarely below my handicap, huge difference!
What's your local? I personally can't stand Birchwood...5/6 hour+ rounds on the weekend, no thanks! Lovely new facilities but still no understanding of how to manage tee times..Have you tried Rochester & Cobham? Lovely mature course, no more than 25 mins away from the ones you've just mentioned, worth checking out..A lot does depend on the course though, I go somewhere easier (Chelsfield Lakes, Birchwood, Lullingstone, Sutton Green) I'll shoot level most days, my own home course I'm rarely below my handicap, huge difference!
kentlad said:
kiethton said:
Half my issue is that although not being straight 100% of the time, if I don't use the driver a good chunk of the time I'm then left with +175 yards in to most greens, just not good enough for a 9 handicapper to leave myself close enough to the pin. I do also suffer with at least 1 double (often a triple!) every round....
A lot does depend on the course though, I go somewhere easier (Chelsfield Lakes, Birchwood, Lullingstone, Sutton Green) I'll shoot level most days, my own home course I'm rarely below my handicap, huge difference!
What's your local? I personally can't stand Birchwood...5/6 hour+ rounds on the weekend, no thanks! Lovely new facilities but still no understanding of how to manage tee times..Have you tried Rochester & Cobham? Lovely mature course, no more than 25 mins away from the ones you've just mentioned, worth checking out..A lot does depend on the course though, I go somewhere easier (Chelsfield Lakes, Birchwood, Lullingstone, Sutton Green) I'll shoot level most days, my own home course I'm rarely below my handicap, huge difference!
re. above - yeah it is a reasonable expectation, however I am often no more accurate with my 2 iron than my Driver....that's half the issue and there is
yards in it!
kiethton said:
re. above - yeah it is a reasonable expectation, however I am often no more accurate with my 2 iron than my Driver....that's half the issue and there is
yards in it!
It's a toughie. You must be either reasonably good with the long clubs, or an awesome putter, to play to 9 though.yards in it!
Have you read about the 'strokes gained' methodology? It's a good way to get better at scoring without getting any better at hitting golf balls.
What do you think is the average number of shots (to 2 decimal places) the pros take to get down from a fairway lie from 10 yards from the hole?
2.18 shots
And from 25 yards? Fairway lie again?
2.46 shots.
And from 50 yards? Fairway lie again?
2.66 shots. So from 5 times further away, they are only half a shot worse off. There's almost zero benefit to a pro in taking any kind of risk to get to 25 yards out if they can get to 50 yards out more safely
This level of understanding about the scoring landscape, where shots are lost and gained, can be really useful in working out which risks are worth it and which aren't.
I'd be surprised if any golfer over, say, a 10 handicap, who did this exercise properly, saw a stroke-gain from their driver that was better than the alternative shot choices.
http://www.strokesgainedgolf.com/How-Strokes-Gaine...
SpeckledJim said:
kiethton said:
re. above - yeah it is a reasonable expectation, however I am often no more accurate with my 2 iron than my Driver....that's half the issue and there is
75 yards in it!
It's a toughie. You must be either reasonably good with the long clubs, or an awesome putter, to play to 9 though.75 yards in it!
Have you read about the 'strokes gained' methodology? It's a good way to get better at scoring without getting any better at hitting golf balls.
What do you think is the average number of shots (to 2 decimal places) the pros take to get down from a fairway lie from 10 yards from the hole?
2.18 shots
And from 25 yards? Fairway lie again?
2.46 shots.
And from 50 yards? Fairway lie again?
2.66 shots. So from 5 times further away, they are only half a shot worse off. There's almost zero benefit to a pro in taking any kind of risk to get to 25 yards out if they can get to 50 yards out more safely
This level of understanding about the scoring landscape, where shots are lost and gained, can be really useful in working out which risks are worth it and which aren't.
I'd be surprised if any golfer over, say, a 10 handicap, who did this exercise properly, saw a stroke-gain from their driver that was better than the alternative shot choices.
http://www.strokesgainedgolf.com/How-Strokes-Gaine...
Other thing is that I'm generally not playing that close to my handicap ATM but mainly due to loosing focus....was -2 gross at one stage in my club champs (6 holes in) but finished +15! haha
I'll get there eventually....
Back in December last year I posted on the Golf Thread 2016.
I had previously taken up golf in December 2015 at the age of 52 and managed to get my handicap down to 17 after a year (around 6 months playing on a real course rather then just hitting balls on the driving range).
Time for a progress update on the 2017 thread after 18 months of playing golf.
I'm still taking regular lessons with my coach and playing a lot. This season I have managed to win a club medal, a foursomes competition, a couple of team scramble & stableford things, and I'm through to the final of a match-play competition. I think I was a bit of a bandit off 17 in non-medal competitions while I was improving rapidly - it was very strange to be improving at something rather than going backwards at my age.
My handicap is now 13 (could have been 12 if I had not 3 putted the 17th and 18th in my last medal). I'm hopefully still improving - although it is now getting harder to come down quickly). In bounce games I'm still regularly scoring low 80s off the back tees with occasionally some very good (lucky) rounds in the mid 70s. I just can't quite time the excellent rounds for the stroke-play medals (too windy, pissing with rain, play crap, etc). But I now mostly play from the medal tees when possible - and that has made a big difference in getting used to the extra distances and shots required in the competitions.
Current goals:
I had previously taken up golf in December 2015 at the age of 52 and managed to get my handicap down to 17 after a year (around 6 months playing on a real course rather then just hitting balls on the driving range).
Time for a progress update on the 2017 thread after 18 months of playing golf.
I'm still taking regular lessons with my coach and playing a lot. This season I have managed to win a club medal, a foursomes competition, a couple of team scramble & stableford things, and I'm through to the final of a match-play competition. I think I was a bit of a bandit off 17 in non-medal competitions while I was improving rapidly - it was very strange to be improving at something rather than going backwards at my age.
My handicap is now 13 (could have been 12 if I had not 3 putted the 17th and 18th in my last medal). I'm hopefully still improving - although it is now getting harder to come down quickly). In bounce games I'm still regularly scoring low 80s off the back tees with occasionally some very good (lucky) rounds in the mid 70s. I just can't quite time the excellent rounds for the stroke-play medals (too windy, pissing with rain, play crap, etc). But I now mostly play from the medal tees when possible - and that has made a big difference in getting used to the extra distances and shots required in the competitions.
Current goals:
- Get down to 12 handicap by the end of the season.
- Practise hard over the winter.
- Improve my general fitness (30 years of not doing any sport and sitting at a desk takes its toll). I've lost 2 stone in weight since I started playing, but I need to get "golf fit" now. I plan to work on that seriously over the coming months (got a fitness coach lined up).
- Learn to putt.
Mindisablank said:
Back in December last year I posted on the Golf Thread 2016.
I had previously taken up golf in December 2015 at the age of 52 and managed to get my handicap down to 17 after a year (around 6 months playing on a real course rather then just hitting balls on the driving range).
Time for a progress update on the 2017 thread after 18 months of playing golf.
I'm still taking regular lessons with my coach and playing a lot. This season I have managed to win a club medal, a foursomes competition, a couple of team scramble & stableford things, and I'm through to the final of a match-play competition. I think I was a bit of a bandit off 17 in non-medal competitions while I was improving rapidly - it was very strange to be improving at something rather than going backwards at my age.
My handicap is now 13 (could have been 12 if I had not 3 putted the 17th and 18th in my last medal). I'm hopefully still improving - although it is now getting harder to come down quickly). In bounce games I'm still regularly scoring low 80s off the back tees with occasionally some very good (lucky) rounds in the mid 70s. I just can't quite time the excellent rounds for the stroke-play medals (too windy, pissing with rain, play crap, etc). But I now mostly play from the medal tees when possible - and that has made a big difference in getting used to the extra distances and shots required in the competitions.
Current goals:
If you manage that last one, you will come back here and share the secret, won't you?I had previously taken up golf in December 2015 at the age of 52 and managed to get my handicap down to 17 after a year (around 6 months playing on a real course rather then just hitting balls on the driving range).
Time for a progress update on the 2017 thread after 18 months of playing golf.
I'm still taking regular lessons with my coach and playing a lot. This season I have managed to win a club medal, a foursomes competition, a couple of team scramble & stableford things, and I'm through to the final of a match-play competition. I think I was a bit of a bandit off 17 in non-medal competitions while I was improving rapidly - it was very strange to be improving at something rather than going backwards at my age.
My handicap is now 13 (could have been 12 if I had not 3 putted the 17th and 18th in my last medal). I'm hopefully still improving - although it is now getting harder to come down quickly). In bounce games I'm still regularly scoring low 80s off the back tees with occasionally some very good (lucky) rounds in the mid 70s. I just can't quite time the excellent rounds for the stroke-play medals (too windy, pissing with rain, play crap, etc). But I now mostly play from the medal tees when possible - and that has made a big difference in getting used to the extra distances and shots required in the competitions.
Current goals:
- Get down to 12 handicap by the end of the season.
- Practise hard over the winter.
- Improve my general fitness (30 years of not doing any sport and sitting at a desk takes its toll). I've lost 2 stone in weight since I started playing, but I need to get "golf fit" now. I plan to work on that seriously over the coming months (got a fitness coach lined up).
- Learn to putt.
Went down the driving range today. Getting much more confident with the long irons now, which I dreaded hitting a month ago.
Driver still goes where it feels like. I took some video and i think I am striking the ball with the club a bit too vertically (i.e my hands are a bit too high on ball contact) compared to my setup position, if that makes sense.
Driver still goes where it feels like. I took some video and i think I am striking the ball with the club a bit too vertically (i.e my hands are a bit too high on ball contact) compared to my setup position, if that makes sense.
thebraketester said:
Went down the driving range today. Getting much more confident with the long irons now, which I dreaded hitting a month ago.
Driver still goes where it feels like. I took some video and i think I am striking the ball with the club a bit too vertically (i.e my hands are a bit too high on ball contact) compared to my setup position, if that makes sense.
If that is what you're doing then it's a common issue. Driver still goes where it feels like. I took some video and i think I am striking the ball with the club a bit too vertically (i.e my hands are a bit too high on ball contact) compared to my setup position, if that makes sense.
Watch Mark Crossfield's daily vlogs on YouTube. He gives people tips on how to address it quite often. You can watch all the old videos and you'd be surprised how many there are with similar problems
Speaking of MC, anyone seen the BS in the Mail and the Mirror this week? He's being dragged through the mud by the CEO of Lynx golf over a poll he posted on twitter which she took completely the wrong way.
Knocked 100 balls down the driving range today. Just took my 7 iron. I ended up trying to shape the ball left and right with some sucess, to try and realise how my swing/stance/club position effects the ball flight path.... hopefully to try and stop me smashing balls left and right by accident.
Edited by thebraketester on Sunday 9th July 22:23
HaplessBoyLard said:
thebraketester said:
Went down the driving range today. Getting much more confident with the long irons now, which I dreaded hitting a month ago.
Driver still goes where it feels like. I took some video and i think I am striking the ball with the club a bit too vertically (i.e my hands are a bit too high on ball contact) compared to my setup position, if that makes sense.
If that is what you're doing then it's a common issue. Driver still goes where it feels like. I took some video and i think I am striking the ball with the club a bit too vertically (i.e my hands are a bit too high on ball contact) compared to my setup position, if that makes sense.
Watch Mark Crossfield's daily vlogs on YouTube. He gives people tips on how to address it quite often. You can watch all the old videos and you'd be surprised how many there are with similar problems
Speaking of MC, anyone seen the BS in the Mail and the Mirror this week? He's being dragged through the mud by the CEO of Lynx golf over a poll he posted on twitter which she took completely the wrong way.
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