General rugby thread

General rugby thread

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Discussion

ntiz

2,343 posts

137 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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Not sure if this is the right place for this.

Does anyone know why Daly never seems to be considered a centre for England even though he has been playing 13 for Wasps? We have loads of talented wingers but are short of centres.

Surely worth a try in his favoured position. Maybe with JJ at inside it’s a dam fast back line if not the heaviest. We never commit all the forwards to the breakdown anyway so always a couple in the back line if we do want to try some muscle with Daly and JJ on there shoulder.

Could be chatting rubbish though lol.

DocJock

8,358 posts

241 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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I don't necessarily agree with the line of reasoning, but Daly is played as a back three player because it is supposed to give him more space and more freedom to come into the attacking line in different places.

As I say, I don't necessarily agree with that. I am a firm believer in playing your best players in their best positions rather than move them out of position to cover a perceived weakness.

edit: He's a pretty darned good winger though...

ntiz

2,343 posts

137 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
quotequote all
That’s pretty fair reasoning.

I guess the reason I have been thinking about this is that we always seem to be putting good wingers on the bench like Nowell. So that Daly can go on the wing because we want Ben T’eo to start even though from what I can see he doesn’t add much. Much like Tuilagi good ball carrier but never seems to pick a good pass at the right time.

Maybe I am being to harsh sometimes feels like the ball only gets to the 12 before we run straight down the middle to get tied up. On the other hand you can’t always sling it wide have to draw the opposition defence narrow with strong ball carriers.

irocfan

40,538 posts

191 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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I know what you mean, we do seem to have a good number of decent (dare I say even good) wingers:

Solomona
Ashton
Joe Cock
May
Nowel
Watson
Roko

And that's without even thinking too hard on it. Centres seem to be sick-note 1, sick-note 2, faz, JJ....


LivingTheDream

1,756 posts

180 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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presumably there's an element of his boot too - as a back 3 tracking back to full back as needed, that boot can be a useful tool

tight5

2,747 posts

160 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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irocfan

40,538 posts

191 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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tight5 said:
Is it only me that can read reveng(e) in that pic? wink

XCP

16,933 posts

229 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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I am slightly surprised that Ireland persist with Best. He isn't.

TheGreatSoprendo

5,286 posts

250 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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The rest of the England squad need to switch to whatever brand of washing powder the Vunipola's Mum uses!

magooagain

10,001 posts

171 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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XCP said:
I am slightly surprised that Ireland persist with Best. He isn't.
He is picked on merit of his capability,same as any other player.
It's easy to have a go at a player,but really! Do you think the Ireland management don't know what they are doing?

DocJock

8,358 posts

241 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
quotequote all
XCP said:
I am slightly surprised that Ireland persist with Best. He isn't.
Same could be said of Dylan Hartley. I doubt EJ and JS are both wrong.

iwantagta

1,323 posts

146 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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DocJock said:
XCP said:
I am slightly surprised that Ireland persist with Best. He isn't.
Same could be said of Dylan Hartley. I doubt EJ and JS are both wrong.
Agree - both are "leaders", Captain or otherwise they both seem to bring people along with them. Also - both have lineouts are better IMO than their immediate challengers,

Seems to be backed up by; https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2612644-rankin...

(random search for lineout % rory best!)

Kermit power

28,674 posts

214 months

Thursday 31st January 2019
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irocfan said:
tight5 said:
Is it only me that can read reveng(e) in that pic? wink
I read doom. frown

Why does Jones persist with his bloody disastrous Daly at fullback experiment????

Cyder

7,058 posts

221 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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He’s a better option than Mr ‘I’m so angry I’m going to run into the tackle and never pass the ball grrrr’ Brown isn’t he?

Oddly I always think Mike Brown looks good for ‘quins but rubbish for England, like he’s playing a completely different game.

Kermit power

28,674 posts

214 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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Cyder said:
He’s a better option than Mr ‘I’m so angry I’m going to run into the tackle and never pass the ball grrrr’ Brown isn’t he?
No. Not in any respect is he better at fullback. Wing? Maybe. Centre? Without a doubt. Fullback? Not until he can catch every high ball fired his way.

Cyder said:
Oddly I always think Mike Brown looks good for ‘quins but rubbish for England, like he’s playing a completely different game.
I certainly think he looks better playing for Quins than he does for England, but I don't think you can put that down to him. If he can offload and pass perfectly competently when playing for us, then it would be absurd to assume that he somehow loses that skill when playing for England. I can only assume that he is being instructed to play differently by the different coaching teams?

No matter how you look at it though, playing Daly at Fullback has, based on what we've seen to date, been a disaster!

Question is, who else comes in to the mix? Goode, for whatever reason, is unloved by the England setup. Anthony Watson seems to be constantly injured, Nowell hasn't done too badly, but is also playing out of position. Harry Mallinder might well be a star of the future, but he's out injured seemingly for the whole season, so won't be at the RWC. Who else? Jason Woodward?


DocJock

8,358 posts

241 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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Kermit power said:
Cyder said:
He’s a better option than Mr ‘I’m so angry I’m going to run into the tackle and never pass the ball grrrr’ Brown isn’t he?
No. Not in any respect is he better at fullback. Wing? Maybe. Centre? Without a doubt. Fullback? Not until he can catch every high ball fired his way.

Cyder said:
Oddly I always think Mike Brown looks good for ‘quins but rubbish for England, like he’s playing a completely different game.
I certainly think he looks better playing for Quins than he does for England, but I don't think you can put that down to him. If he can offload and pass perfectly competently when playing for us, then it would be absurd to assume that he somehow loses that skill when playing for England. I can only assume that he is being instructed to play differently by the different coaching teams?

No matter how you look at it though, playing Daly at Fullback has, based on what we've seen to date, been a disaster!

Question is, who else comes in to the mix? Goode, for whatever reason, is unloved by the England setup. Anthony Watson seems to be constantly injured, Nowell hasn't done too badly, but is also playing out of position. Harry Mallinder might well be a star of the future, but he's out injured seemingly for the whole season, so won't be at the RWC. Who else? Jason Woodward?
I agree. Mike Brown is very, very solid under the high ball and rarely misses a one-up tackle. Those are the fullback's primary requirements imo.

He also has that rare knack of nearly always beating the first tackler, or at least getting his hands past them. This gives the forwards the edge at the breakdown.

I can't argue against the suggestion that he is playing to instructions for England when he doesn't offload. I can see no other rational explanation.

Cyder

7,058 posts

221 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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Good points, I'd forgotten about the up and under weaknesses.

irocfan

40,538 posts

191 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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Kermit power said:
I certainly think he looks better playing for Quins than he does for England, but I don't think you can put that down to him. If he can offload and pass perfectly competently when playing for us, then it would be absurd to assume that he somehow loses that skill when playing for England. I can only assume that he is being instructed to play differently by the different coaching teams?

No matter how you look at it though, playing Daly at Fullback has, based on what we've seen to date, been a disaster!

Question is, who else comes in to the mix? Goode, for whatever reason, is unloved by the England setup. Anthony Watson seems to be constantly injured, Nowell hasn't done too badly, but is also playing out of position. Harry Mallinder might well be a star of the future, but he's out injured seemingly for the whole season, so won't be at the RWC. Who else? Jason Woodward?
The problem with Goode is that he's slower than my gran - and she's been dead for 10 years.

I'm not sold on Watson (another sicknote) so it could well be that mallinder gets the nod for 2020.

P.S. Whatever became of Chris Pennel?

Edited by irocfan on Friday 1st February 14:51

Blackpuddin

16,555 posts

206 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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Anybody know why the Jocks always sing about flour before every game?

Dermot O'Logical

2,586 posts

130 months

Friday 1st February 2019
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DocJock said:
Kermit power said:
Cyder said:
He’s a better option than Mr ‘I’m so angry I’m going to run into the tackle and never pass the ball grrrr’ Brown isn’t he?
No. Not in any respect is he better at fullback. Wing? Maybe. Centre? Without a doubt. Fullback? Not until he can catch every high ball fired his way.

Cyder said:
Oddly I always think Mike Brown looks good for ‘quins but rubbish for England, like he’s playing a completely different game.
I certainly think he looks better playing for Quins than he does for England, but I don't think you can put that down to him. If he can offload and pass perfectly competently when playing for us, then it would be absurd to assume that he somehow loses that skill when playing for England. I can only assume that he is being instructed to play differently by the different coaching teams?

No matter how you look at it though, playing Daly at Fullback has, based on what we've seen to date, been a disaster!

Question is, who else comes in to the mix? Goode, for whatever reason, is unloved by the England setup. Anthony Watson seems to be constantly injured, Nowell hasn't done too badly, but is also playing out of position. Harry Mallinder might well be a star of the future, but he's out injured seemingly for the whole season, so won't be at the RWC. Who else? Jason Woodward?
I agree. Mike Brown is very, very solid under the high ball and rarely misses a one-up tackle. Those are the fullback's primary requirements imo.

He also has that rare knack of nearly always beating the first tackler, or at least getting his hands past them. This gives the forwards the edge at the breakdown.

I can't argue against the suggestion that he is playing to instructions for England when he doesn't offload. I can see no other rational explanation.
Mike Brown is imperious under a high ball, and I'm in agreement with the above in that if Eddie Jones didn't want him to take the ball into contact, he wouldn't. Daly would be useful on the bench, as he can cover either wing, centre, or full-back. And there must be a better option than Jonny May on the left wing, surely? We're spoilt for choice when it comes to outside centres and right wingers, but for some reason May seems to be the only option on the left.