General rugby thread
Discussion
C70R said:
DeejRC said:
Not just Flats picking Joe M. There are quite a few props who have said Joe M is the best we have over here to go against the Bok scrum.
Are we talking about the same Marler who spent 35min being introduced to his perineum by the Bok scrum in the 2019 final?The same Marler who, in said same 35min, managed a single carry for 1m and 3 tackles?
Marler was a world-class scrummager at his peak, but that's been and gone. All we have left is a bloke whose media persona is overtaking his playing contributions.
I wouldn't have picked him either if I was Gatland, but that's because I'd be doubtful he'd be able to hack the Covid bubble for 6 weeks whilst leaving Daisy at home with 4 kids, not because he's not knocking the spots off every tight head he comes up against at the moment.
Slaav said:
CardinalFang said:
Looks like a sad end to Quins & Brown
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57085390
Shame. Could've been a dream send-off, over the next few weeks, but, as above, studs to the face of a player on the ground is a bad one.
CF
I agree with SOME of the sentiment here and it is a shame that Brown wont get the send off in front of a packed house that his service to Quins probably deserves.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57085390
Shame. Could've been a dream send-off, over the next few weeks, but, as above, studs to the face of a player on the ground is a bad one.
CF
The 'stamp' on the face MAY have been a pure accident but it was deemed reckless. His guilty plea may have been an attempt to obtain a lenient outcome and max reduction for such a plea. There can be NO doubt that his boot and studs made contact with the head/face.
Mike Brown knew there was a player there. He may not have realised the head and face were so exposed but his reaction immediately after didn't shout 'oops, sorry mate' to me. He didn't immediately react as if he had inadvertently and completely accidentally caught the player. He probably didn't mean to 'stamp on his face' but that is what has happened.
Another factor - and one which I don't like using or being used 'with hindsight' - is OUTCOMES. If an illegal act (deliberate one) has a minor outcome, should that be treated more leniently than an 'accident' or minor offence which has an unlucky awful outcome?
For Mike Brown, the inadvertent stamp COULD have badly damaged the face. It COULD' have damaged an eye with the studs. It COULD have blinded Taylor.... etc etc and more hand wringing hyperbole.
It was dangerous, a boot/studs to the face of a prone and vulnerable player on the ground. This last point removes most of my sympathy for Brown.
Kermit power said:
Equally the same Marler who is currently a key component of the Quins pack topping the scrummaging stats in the Prem for the first time in God knows how long, having played 71.5 minutes per game in the 12 games so he has started so far, which is pretty unusual for a prop.
I wouldn't have picked him either if I was Gatland, but that's because I'd be doubtful he'd be able to hack the Covid bubble for 6 weeks whilst leaving Daisy at home with 4 kids, not because he's not knocking the spots off every tight head he comes up against at the moment.
No-one really expects Marler to be picked. Flats was engaging in a bit of fantasy 'if I could pick one more prop to tour it would be....' on the C5 highlights show. It will be interesting to see which of those picked doesn't get their arse handed to them by the Saffas...I wouldn't have picked him either if I was Gatland, but that's because I'd be doubtful he'd be able to hack the Covid bubble for 6 weeks whilst leaving Daisy at home with 4 kids, not because he's not knocking the spots off every tight head he comes up against at the moment.
Kermit power said:
C70R said:
DeejRC said:
Not just Flats picking Joe M. There are quite a few props who have said Joe M is the best we have over here to go against the Bok scrum.
Are we talking about the same Marler who spent 35min being introduced to his perineum by the Bok scrum in the 2019 final?The same Marler who, in said same 35min, managed a single carry for 1m and 3 tackles?
Marler was a world-class scrummager at his peak, but that's been and gone. All we have left is a bloke whose media persona is overtaking his playing contributions.
I wouldn't have picked him either if I was Gatland, but that's because I'd be doubtful he'd be able to hack the Covid bubble for 6 weeks whilst leaving Daisy at home with 4 kids, not because he's not knocking the spots off every tight head he comes up against at the moment.
Real shame about Brown, and having watched many hours of him playing, I'm a little surprised that was his first red. Always close to the edge, but there was no excuse for the stamp and ban is well deserved.
Sinckler. Would have thought that he was going, and it can't be about his rugby talent. I think he'll be much missed.
Kermit power said:
C70R said:
DeejRC said:
Not just Flats picking Joe M. There are quite a few props who have said Joe M is the best we have over here to go against the Bok scrum.
Are we talking about the same Marler who spent 35min being introduced to his perineum by the Bok scrum in the 2019 final?The same Marler who, in said same 35min, managed a single carry for 1m and 3 tackles?
Marler was a world-class scrummager at his peak, but that's been and gone. All we have left is a bloke whose media persona is overtaking his playing contributions.
I wouldn't have picked him either if I was Gatland, but that's because I'd be doubtful he'd be able to hack the Covid bubble for 6 weeks whilst leaving Daisy at home with 4 kids, not because he's not knocking the spots off every tight head he comes up against at the moment.
Not much of a case in favour of him touring...
C70R said:
Kermit power said:
C70R said:
DeejRC said:
Not just Flats picking Joe M. There are quite a few props who have said Joe M is the best we have over here to go against the Bok scrum.
Are we talking about the same Marler who spent 35min being introduced to his perineum by the Bok scrum in the 2019 final?The same Marler who, in said same 35min, managed a single carry for 1m and 3 tackles?
Marler was a world-class scrummager at his peak, but that's been and gone. All we have left is a bloke whose media persona is overtaking his playing contributions.
I wouldn't have picked him either if I was Gatland, but that's because I'd be doubtful he'd be able to hack the Covid bubble for 6 weeks whilst leaving Daisy at home with 4 kids, not because he's not knocking the spots off every tight head he comes up against at the moment.
Not much of a case in favour of him touring...
Kermit power said:
C70R said:
Kermit power said:
C70R said:
DeejRC said:
Not just Flats picking Joe M. There are quite a few props who have said Joe M is the best we have over here to go against the Bok scrum.
Are we talking about the same Marler who spent 35min being introduced to his perineum by the Bok scrum in the 2019 final?The same Marler who, in said same 35min, managed a single carry for 1m and 3 tackles?
Marler was a world-class scrummager at his peak, but that's been and gone. All we have left is a bloke whose media persona is overtaking his playing contributions.
I wouldn't have picked him either if I was Gatland, but that's because I'd be doubtful he'd be able to hack the Covid bubble for 6 weeks whilst leaving Daisy at home with 4 kids, not because he's not knocking the spots off every tight head he comes up against at the moment.
Not much of a case in favour of him touring...
He's in the top handful, for sure. But I'm not certain he's even head and shoulders the best Englishman in his position. Genge, Obano and Hepburn (plus Vunipola) might have something to say.
Edited by C70R on Monday 17th May 11:14
C70R said:
I'm saying that's a bit of a stretch that only a Quins fan could be so certain of.
He's in the top handful, for sure. But I'm not certain he's even head and shoulders the best Englishman in his position. Genge, Obano and Hepburn (plus Vunipola) might have something to say.
One of the unique problems with props is that you almost never get to see them go head to head against their direct opponents for international honours!He's in the top handful, for sure. But I'm not certain he's even head and shoulders the best Englishman in his position. Genge, Obano and Hepburn (plus Vunipola) might have something to say.
tries disallowed (according to the beeb report). Eight!! I suspect that that may well be a recordXCP said:
it was a bizarre game. No complaints regarding the 'non tries' but on another day Bristol could have won by 70. TMO was very very busy. I think Heinz may be cited for a stamp though.
Can't complain about the ruled out tries on review. But as busy as the TMO was they found no need to look at Luatua clearly taken out in the air and the high (& late) hit on Sheedy... Shedweb in a meltdown over the Ref but I think he did them more favours than Bristol.
jimKRFC said:
XCP said:
it was a bizarre game. No complaints regarding the 'non tries' but on another day Bristol could have won by 70. TMO was very very busy. I think Heinz may be cited for a stamp though.
Can't complain about the ruled out tries on review. But as busy as the TMO was they found no need to look at Luatua clearly taken out in the air and the high (& late) hit on Sheedy... Shedweb in a meltdown over the Ref but I think he did them more favours than Bristol.
Nothing to do with the ref. Blaming the ref is a football thing.
Without meaning to sound unkind, given the season you've had, were you not expecting that kind of performance?
Skivington has presided over one of the worst seasons I can remember for Gloucester. He was given a poor squad on a downward trajectory, but I can't see any evidence of what he's doing to change that.
Like Thomas at Worcs and Hooper at Bath, he appears to have been given a top job without any real experience or credibility. Suspect they have all been relatively secure in their roles, in spite of abject failure, because of the lack of relegation this season.
They all have potential to be great coaches, and it feels to me that the clubs are using this 'safe' season to help them find their feet. But it just feels like we've left a generation of coaches (the early pros of the late 90s and early 00s) behind, when they potentially have a lot to contribute to the game. I listen to Ben Kay on BT Sport and wonder why he's not considering a career in coaching at the top level (maybe his media gig is cushy?).
Skivington has presided over one of the worst seasons I can remember for Gloucester. He was given a poor squad on a downward trajectory, but I can't see any evidence of what he's doing to change that.
Like Thomas at Worcs and Hooper at Bath, he appears to have been given a top job without any real experience or credibility. Suspect they have all been relatively secure in their roles, in spite of abject failure, because of the lack of relegation this season.
They all have potential to be great coaches, and it feels to me that the clubs are using this 'safe' season to help them find their feet. But it just feels like we've left a generation of coaches (the early pros of the late 90s and early 00s) behind, when they potentially have a lot to contribute to the game. I listen to Ben Kay on BT Sport and wonder why he's not considering a career in coaching at the top level (maybe his media gig is cushy?).
Edited by C70R on Tuesday 18th May 11:36
C70R said:
Without meaning to sound unkind, given the season you've had, were you not expecting that kind of performance?
Skivington has presided over one of the worst seasons I can remember for Gloucester. He was given a poor squad on a downward trajectory, but I can't see any evidence of what he's doing to change that.
Like Thomas at Worcs and Hooper at Bath, he appears to have been given a top job without any real experience or credibility. Suspect they have all been relatively secure in their roles, in spite of abject failure, because of the lack of relegation this season.
They all have potential to be great coaches, and it feels to me that the clubs are using this 'safe' season to help them find their feet. But it just feels like we've left a generation of coaches (the early pros of the late 90s and early 00s) behind, when they potentially have a lot to contribute to the game. I listen to Ben Kay on BT Sport and wonder why he's not considering a career in coaching at the top level (maybe his media gig is cushy?).
All true, but we took Saints to pieces the week before by playing hard attacking rugby, sticking to a game plan that worked and not making mistakes. They were in 5th and on a good run at that point. Glos looked really good. Skivington has presided over one of the worst seasons I can remember for Gloucester. He was given a poor squad on a downward trajectory, but I can't see any evidence of what he's doing to change that.
Like Thomas at Worcs and Hooper at Bath, he appears to have been given a top job without any real experience or credibility. Suspect they have all been relatively secure in their roles, in spite of abject failure, because of the lack of relegation this season.
They all have potential to be great coaches, and it feels to me that the clubs are using this 'safe' season to help them find their feet. But it just feels like we've left a generation of coaches (the early pros of the late 90s and early 00s) behind, when they potentially have a lot to contribute to the game. I listen to Ben Kay on BT Sport and wonder why he's not considering a career in coaching at the top level (maybe his media gig is cushy?).
Edited by C70R on Tuesday 18th May 11:36
Looked like a different team this week , but some of the credit should go to Bristol who played smart and we couldn’t adapt.
It’s the inconsistency that annoys.
JonChalk said:
C70R said:
Without meaning to sound unkind, given the season you've had, were you not expecting that kind of performance?
Skivington has presided over one of the worst seasons I can remember for Gloucester. He was given a poor squad on a downward trajectory, but I can't see any evidence of what he's doing to change that.
Like Thomas at Worcs and Hooper at Bath, he appears to have been given a top job without any real experience or credibility. Suspect they have all been relatively secure in their roles, in spite of abject failure, because of the lack of relegation this season.
They all have potential to be great coaches, and it feels to me that the clubs are using this 'safe' season to help them find their feet. But it just feels like we've left a generation of coaches (the early pros of the late 90s and early 00s) behind, when they potentially have a lot to contribute to the game. I listen to Ben Kay on BT Sport and wonder why he's not considering a career in coaching at the top level (maybe his media gig is cushy?).
All true, but we took Saints to pieces the week before by playing hard attacking rugby, sticking to a game plan that worked and not making mistakes. They were in 5th and on a good run at that point. Glos looked really good. Skivington has presided over one of the worst seasons I can remember for Gloucester. He was given a poor squad on a downward trajectory, but I can't see any evidence of what he's doing to change that.
Like Thomas at Worcs and Hooper at Bath, he appears to have been given a top job without any real experience or credibility. Suspect they have all been relatively secure in their roles, in spite of abject failure, because of the lack of relegation this season.
They all have potential to be great coaches, and it feels to me that the clubs are using this 'safe' season to help them find their feet. But it just feels like we've left a generation of coaches (the early pros of the late 90s and early 00s) behind, when they potentially have a lot to contribute to the game. I listen to Ben Kay on BT Sport and wonder why he's not considering a career in coaching at the top level (maybe his media gig is cushy?).
Edited by C70R on Tuesday 18th May 11:36
Looked like a different team this week , but some of the credit should go to Bristol who played smart and we couldn’t adapt.
It’s the inconsistency that annoys.
You guys were good for the win, but Saints looked far more comfortable before Biggar left.
epom said:
Big game on in Twickenham, thread very quiet. Another red card, but no disputing this one 
Moronic.What a way to ruin your team's first shot at European silverware.
He looked like a bloke who was desperate to get into the game after a couple of weeks out, and had been having an uncharacteristic shocker which culminated in the red card.
Shame for a decent player, but replaying the tackle shows how wrong he got it.
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