Rugby, 'weird thing posh people do'
Discussion
Kermit power said:
Wow! Are you actually able to type with a chip that large on your shoulder, or do you need a speech to text converter?
Still, at least I suppose it explains why football fans can turn up at the game, have a few beers and then sit in the stands with the opposition fans without any problems, whereas the police have to segregate rugby fans to ensure there's no violence, eh? Oh... Hang on a minute....
As for penalties, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? If you get that confused by the scoring in rugby, then for Christ's sake please don't ever look at the scoring in Gaelic games scoring! It would make your poor little brain explode and dribble all over that shoulder chip of yours!
I'm not a football fan. Which make my point that unions whole reason for being is that "it's better than football"Still, at least I suppose it explains why football fans can turn up at the game, have a few beers and then sit in the stands with the opposition fans without any problems, whereas the police have to segregate rugby fans to ensure there's no violence, eh? Oh... Hang on a minute....
As for penalties, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? If you get that confused by the scoring in rugby, then for Christ's sake please don't ever look at the scoring in Gaelic games scoring! It would make your poor little brain explode and dribble all over that shoulder chip of yours!
Football is a tribal game, for better or worse, that's why fans act the way they do, and there's lots of d
heads watch it. The thing is, nobody pretends there isn't a lot of dheads watch football. I've been to Twickenham to watch England play Australia. You'd have to say, that it was a rather, err, quiet affair with not much by the way of atmosphere. Half of the crowd were too pissed to actually watch what was going on. I have heard talk of professional rugby players being substituted and then going to sit in the stands and getting pissed with the paying crowd. You are professional sportsmen, you should be warming down, eating quality food set out by you coach and having a massage after a game not getting pissed. Not getting pissed ever when you are a pro sportsman. I'm an amateur runner and drinking has a huge impact on my performance. Were my running paying my bills I'd not even walk down the beer isle in the supermarket. I can only imagine Dave Braislfords response if Bradley Wiggins went and sat in the stands at the velodrome and got pissed after a race. So as I am so wrong about what is termed as a penalty, I assume they are what would be an indirect free kick. But, having asked a rugby player on this subject I was told that they certainly are as important and for example a penalty in football, where the whole crowd jumps up and shouts PENALTY! As that's the case, there's certainly an issue in rugby with players breaking the rules when they concede so many penalties each game.
I played rugby at school but football as an adult despite having very little skill in either sport. What I found disappointing in football was the lack of sportsmanship. Moaning at the referee for decisions etc even when you knew they were wrong, that sort of thing. I remember opposition players refusing to shake hands after quite a few games.
Now that my son is getting into rugby and we've been to quite a few mini rugby tournaments I have really enjoyed the enthusiasm for the game from the mums and dads supporting, not just their own kids, but other peoples' children too.
I enjoy being part of a sport where opposition supporters will applaud good play no matter who produces it and the players will shake hands. I don't think it's anything to do with class or posh schools I just think its a good human quality to respect other people.
I tried to get a little bit of the atmosphere in our blog but you can't really get the feeling of dreich Scottish rugby pitches in photographs.
https://tackletyre.myshopify.com/blogs/news/tackli...
I have friends who coach kids in other sports, including football, and I think they do a great job of encouraging sportsmanship too but I think its more entrenched as a basic cornerstone in the game of rugby
Now that my son is getting into rugby and we've been to quite a few mini rugby tournaments I have really enjoyed the enthusiasm for the game from the mums and dads supporting, not just their own kids, but other peoples' children too.
I enjoy being part of a sport where opposition supporters will applaud good play no matter who produces it and the players will shake hands. I don't think it's anything to do with class or posh schools I just think its a good human quality to respect other people.
I tried to get a little bit of the atmosphere in our blog but you can't really get the feeling of dreich Scottish rugby pitches in photographs.
https://tackletyre.myshopify.com/blogs/news/tackli...
I have friends who coach kids in other sports, including football, and I think they do a great job of encouraging sportsmanship too but I think its more entrenched as a basic cornerstone in the game of rugby
Willy Nilly said:
I'm not a football fan. Which make my point that unions whole reason for being is that "it's better than football"
Football is a tribal game, for better or worse, that's why fans act the way they do, and there's lots of dheads watch it. The thing is, nobody pretends there isn't a lot of dheads watch football. I've been to Twickenham to watch England play Australia. You'd have to say, that it was a rather, err, quiet affair with not much by the way of atmosphere. Half of the crowd were too pissed to actually watch what was going on. I have heard talk of professional rugby players being substituted and then going to sit in the stands and getting pissed with the paying crowd. You are professional sportsmen, you should be warming down, eating quality food set out by you coach and having a massage after a game not getting pissed. Not getting pissed ever when you are a pro sportsman. I'm an amateur runner and drinking has a huge impact on my performance. Were my running paying my bills I'd not even walk down the beer isle in the supermarket. I can only imagine Dave Braislfords response if Bradley Wiggins went and sat in the stands at the velodrome and got pissed after a race.
So as I am so wrong about what is termed as a penalty, I assume they are what would be an indirect free kick. But, having asked a rugby player on this subject I was told that they certainly are as important and for example a penalty in football, where the whole crowd jumps up and shouts PENALTY! As that's the case, there's certainly an issue in rugby with players breaking the rules when they concede so many penalties each game.
I think you fundamentally don't understand the game either technically (no shame there as it is much more complicated than football) or from a participation perspective. Rugby's reason for existing is that a lot of people of all shapes and sizes enjoy a contact sport with a high level of camaraderie. 5'8" and 16 stone , 5"7' and 11 stone, or 6'8" and 22 stone there is a position you can excel at.Football is a tribal game, for better or worse, that's why fans act the way they do, and there's lots of d
heads watch it. The thing is, nobody pretends there isn't a lot of dheads watch football. I've been to Twickenham to watch England play Australia. You'd have to say, that it was a rather, err, quiet affair with not much by the way of atmosphere. Half of the crowd were too pissed to actually watch what was going on. I have heard talk of professional rugby players being substituted and then going to sit in the stands and getting pissed with the paying crowd. You are professional sportsmen, you should be warming down, eating quality food set out by you coach and having a massage after a game not getting pissed. Not getting pissed ever when you are a pro sportsman. I'm an amateur runner and drinking has a huge impact on my performance. Were my running paying my bills I'd not even walk down the beer isle in the supermarket. I can only imagine Dave Braislfords response if Bradley Wiggins went and sat in the stands at the velodrome and got pissed after a race. So as I am so wrong about what is termed as a penalty, I assume they are what would be an indirect free kick. But, having asked a rugby player on this subject I was told that they certainly are as important and for example a penalty in football, where the whole crowd jumps up and shouts PENALTY! As that's the case, there's certainly an issue in rugby with players breaking the rules when they concede so many penalties each game.
I've watched in many stadia and, apart from the olympic stadium, never found a lack of atmosphere, a lack of people wanting to kick your head in because you're blue/red (delete as appropriate) yes that was missing
.I've never seen a half a crowd too pissed to watch the game, even at the 7s in HK (49.9% probably in HK to be fair...)
Pro's drinking in the crowd - unlikely. Pro rugby has led football in many sports science areas, the latest being GPS (when was that finally allowed by the FA - 2015?), mainly because of the greater physical toll that matches take compared to football hence a requirement for close management of players.
Greater physical toll doesn't mean better. It does mean that diet is incredibly important, because if it isn't managed properly then you cant recover for the game to train properly, then your injury rate increases and performance decreases.
The downside of the increase in size, speed and fitness of players is the much increased collision forces and so the work on concussion & other injuries, and trying to minimise it.
An ex Scotland international said 'Rugby is more dangerous, more physical, more complicated. Football is faster, more open, and simpler.'
wsurfa said:
I think you fundamentally don't understand the game either technically (no shame there as it is much more complicated than football) or from a participation perspective. Rugby's reason for existing is that a lot of people of all shapes and sizes enjoy a contact sport with a high level of camaraderie. 5'8" and 16 stone , 5"7' and 11 stone, or 6'8" and 22 stone there is a position you can excel at.
I've watched in many stadia and, apart from the olympic stadium, never found a lack of atmosphere, a lack of people wanting to kick your head in because you're blue/red (delete as appropriate) yes that was missing.
I've never seen a half a crowd too pissed to watch the game, even at the 7s in HK (49.9% probably in HK to be fair...)
Pro's drinking in the crowd - unlikely. Pro rugby has led football in many sports science areas, the latest being GPS (when was that finally allowed by the FA - 2015?), mainly because of the greater physical toll that matches take compared to football hence a requirement for close management of players.
Greater physical toll doesn't mean better. It does mean that diet is incredibly important, because if it isn't managed properly then you cant recover for the game to train properly, then your injury rate increases and performance decreases.
The downside of the increase in size, speed and fitness of players is the much increased collision forces and so the work on concussion & other injuries, and trying to minimise it.
An ex Scotland international said 'Rugby is more dangerous, more physical, more complicated. Football is faster, more open, and simpler.'
I'm not sure that rugby is all that complicated. The laws are simple enough, and if you don't understand them all, then it doesn't stop you playing. Or refereeing come to that. I've watched in many stadia and, apart from the olympic stadium, never found a lack of atmosphere, a lack of people wanting to kick your head in because you're blue/red (delete as appropriate) yes that was missing
.I've never seen a half a crowd too pissed to watch the game, even at the 7s in HK (49.9% probably in HK to be fair...)
Pro's drinking in the crowd - unlikely. Pro rugby has led football in many sports science areas, the latest being GPS (when was that finally allowed by the FA - 2015?), mainly because of the greater physical toll that matches take compared to football hence a requirement for close management of players.
Greater physical toll doesn't mean better. It does mean that diet is incredibly important, because if it isn't managed properly then you cant recover for the game to train properly, then your injury rate increases and performance decreases.
The downside of the increase in size, speed and fitness of players is the much increased collision forces and so the work on concussion & other injuries, and trying to minimise it.
An ex Scotland international said 'Rugby is more dangerous, more physical, more complicated. Football is faster, more open, and simpler.'
A throw in is awarded if the ball goes out of play on the side lines. A scrum is awarded if the referee has had to cover more than 30 yards at a run.
What else do you want to know?
I'm not one to suggest it is better/worse than football, but rugby is an easier game to watch. For spectators there are just two rules (laws are for players). The first is never to take your own beer to an away match - dear god no. It will show up the whole team - and secondly, never stand between a touch judge and the players. Other than that, you will fit in regardless.
Cheer if the ball moves towards the opponent's H.
Be nice to the other team's supporters. If your team do something that looks good, you can can put them in their place by saying; 'That's straight off the training pitch'. Firstly, you are telling them that your team has a training pitch, so one up for you, and secondly that you have been there when there's been training, something that could not be said of all the first XV.
I like rugby because it is so simple. It is a game of territory in the main. The further your team is along the pitch the better. The laws are there to break the play up, and nothing more. Playing it is fun. One good thing is that you can't score an own goal so to speak (although that doesn't go for the team selectors) so all you have to do is grab hold of one of the opponents when they have the ball (if the ref's looking).
I'm fairly well up on the laws. That doesn't increase my enjoyment of the sport.
One of the great memories I have is being in a (damn slow) train on the way to Twickenham and us England supporters being outnumbered by a load of Welsh. It was hilarious. Real fun. On the way back they were a bit glum, but still up for a bit of friendly banter.
My son played for an under 19s England side against a Welsh side in the Gower peninsular on a wet Thursday in February. We thrashed them. I was sitting in with the Welsh crowd, which again outnumbered us, and they were charming. Their humour was hilarious. Their assessments of the abilities of various players, both ours and theirs, just made me cry with laughter.
It was a lovely evening despite the rain, despite the cold, despite it being in Wales.
I agree with your comments on size and concussion. My lad has had to stop playing at the age of 28 due to repeated concussion. I was at a Quinns match against Toulous (maybe lon, memory fades) and Jordan Turner-Hall, then on the wing, was tackled at speed by his opposite number. The impact was tremendous. These were two backs, not from the tight five. T-H retired from rugby around the age of 27 through injury.
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure that rugby is all that complicated. The laws are simple enough, and if you don't understand them all, then it doesn't stop you playing. Or refereeing come to that.
A throw in is awarded if the ball goes out of play on the side lines. A scrum is awarded if the referee has had to cover more than 30 yards at a run.
What else do you want to know?
I'm not one to suggest it is better/worse than football, but rugby is an easier game to watch. For spectators there are just two rules (laws are for players). The first is never to take your own beer to an away match - dear god no. It will show up the whole team - and secondly, never stand between a touch judge and the players. Other than that, you will fit in regardless.
Cheer if the ball moves towards the opponent's H.
Be nice to the other team's supporters. If your team do something that looks good, you can can put them in their place by saying; 'That's straight off the training pitch'. Firstly, you are telling them that your team has a training pitch, so one up for you, and secondly that you have been there when there's been training, something that could not be said of all the first XV.
I like rugby because it is so simple. It is a game of territory in the main. The further your team is along the pitch the better. The laws are there to break the play up, and nothing more. Playing it is fun. One good thing is that you can't score an own goal so to speak (although that doesn't go for the team selectors) so all you have to do is grab hold of one of the opponents when they have the ball (if the ref's looking).
I'm fairly well up on the laws. That doesn't increase my enjoyment of the sport.
One of the great memories I have is being in a (damn slow) train on the way to Twickenham and us England supporters being outnumbered by a load of Welsh. It was hilarious. Real fun. On the way back they were a bit glum, but still up for a bit of friendly banter.
My son played for an under 19s England side against a Welsh side in the Gower peninsular on a wet Thursday in February. We thrashed them. I was sitting in with the Welsh crowd, which again outnumbered us, and they were charming. Their humour was hilarious. Their assessments of the abilities of various players, both ours and theirs, just made me cry with laughter.
It was a lovely evening despite the rain, despite the cold, despite it being in Wales.
I agree with your comments on size and concussion. My lad has had to stop playing at the age of 28 due to repeated concussion. I was at a Quinns match against Toulous (maybe lon, memory fades) and Jordan Turner-Hall, then on the wing, was tackled at speed by his opposite number. The impact was tremendous. These were two backs, not from the tight five. T-H retired from rugby around the age of 27 through injury.
Bit in bold definitely poor form for a vets match, then again a crowd at a vets match is anything more than 1 lost labrador A throw in is awarded if the ball goes out of play on the side lines. A scrum is awarded if the referee has had to cover more than 30 yards at a run.
What else do you want to know?
I'm not one to suggest it is better/worse than football, but rugby is an easier game to watch. For spectators there are just two rules (laws are for players). The first is never to take your own beer to an away match - dear god no. It will show up the whole team - and secondly, never stand between a touch judge and the players. Other than that, you will fit in regardless.
Cheer if the ball moves towards the opponent's H.
Be nice to the other team's supporters. If your team do something that looks good, you can can put them in their place by saying; 'That's straight off the training pitch'. Firstly, you are telling them that your team has a training pitch, so one up for you, and secondly that you have been there when there's been training, something that could not be said of all the first XV.
I like rugby because it is so simple. It is a game of territory in the main. The further your team is along the pitch the better. The laws are there to break the play up, and nothing more. Playing it is fun. One good thing is that you can't score an own goal so to speak (although that doesn't go for the team selectors) so all you have to do is grab hold of one of the opponents when they have the ball (if the ref's looking).
I'm fairly well up on the laws. That doesn't increase my enjoyment of the sport.
One of the great memories I have is being in a (damn slow) train on the way to Twickenham and us England supporters being outnumbered by a load of Welsh. It was hilarious. Real fun. On the way back they were a bit glum, but still up for a bit of friendly banter.
My son played for an under 19s England side against a Welsh side in the Gower peninsular on a wet Thursday in February. We thrashed them. I was sitting in with the Welsh crowd, which again outnumbered us, and they were charming. Their humour was hilarious. Their assessments of the abilities of various players, both ours and theirs, just made me cry with laughter.
It was a lovely evening despite the rain, despite the cold, despite it being in Wales.
I agree with your comments on size and concussion. My lad has had to stop playing at the age of 28 due to repeated concussion. I was at a Quinns match against Toulous (maybe lon, memory fades) and Jordan Turner-Hall, then on the wing, was tackled at speed by his opposite number. The impact was tremendous. These were two backs, not from the tight five. T-H retired from rugby around the age of 27 through injury.
Good lord! So much vitriol for something you don't need to come into contact with. Just what did your games teacher at school make you do on a rugby pitch?!?!
The mind boggles, but anyway, allow me to address some of your points...
Having said that, if you're basing your views on one international at Twickenham, you're doing so on the worst possible example!
I've given up on paying to see England matches just because they've got stupidly expensive, so the last three occasions I've been to Twickenham have been for the Harlequins' Christmas Big Games. They set the pricing deliberately low to sell out an 80,000+ stadium for a club match, and most of the kids' tickets are a quid each, so there are loads of families.
The opposition for the last two years have been Gloucester, and I really hope that's the case indefinitely, as their fans are wonderful! Two years ago, we had a Gloucester family sat in front of us and the son, who I'd guess was around 20 decided to take it on himself to try and out-cheer the couple of hundred Quins fans in the few rows directly behind him, many of whom were the under 8s that I help coach on a Sunday morning. At the end of the match (a wonderful 43 all draw), they'd all lost their voices, had massive grins on their faces, and the Gloucester lad went round all the kids shaking hands with them, whilst still trying to claim he was louder than they were. No England match will come close.
ks. Firstly, you should be aware that only the top 26 clubs in England actually are professional. All the clubs below that are semi-pro at most, and playing for the enjoyment of the game. If those guys fancy a few pints after the game, why shouldn't they?
The pros, though, are consummate professionals. We had a stadium tour at Quins a couple of weeks ago, and that included them talking us through exactly the sort of regime you've described above, except they seemed to put more focus on the 6-7 degree plunge pools than they did on massage!
Quite apart from anything else, unless the player in question has been subbed off because of an injury preventing him from continuing, he won't be going anywhere other than onto the bench and keeping warm, as under certain circumstances they can actually be brought back into play!
Certainly some penalties in rugby can be as important as a penalty in football, especially if you're two points down with 30 seconds to go and you get a kickable penalty in front of the posts, but the vast majority of them are not.
Whether from penalties, tries or dropped goals, both sides will generally score far more frequently in a game of rugby that in a game of football, and many of the penalties awarded will give the team benefitting from it a chance to clear their own lines rather than scoring at the other end. This is very different to the position in football where if you're awarded a penalty, you're highly likely to score in a game which is often settled by a single goal.
The mind boggles, but anyway, allow me to address some of your points...
Willy Nilly said:
I'm not a football fan. Which make my point that unions whole reason for being is that "it's better than football"
Many rugby fans would argue that it is better, but that's not really the point. It's more that every single sport in this country is a complete minority sport when compared to football, so followers of other sports will tend to push back when, for example, asked "did you see the match" on the day after a football international with the firm belief that football was the only game in town, regardless of what else might've been on. I'm sure followers of hockey and other sports feel the same, but it's maybe more visible from rugby fans simply because there are many more rugby fans than there are most other sports which aren't football.Willy Nilly said:
Football is a tribal game, for better or worse, that's why fans act the way they do, and there's lots of dheads watch it.
Rugby is tribal too. There are plenty of local club rivalries which the supporters very much take to heart. The main difference is that they don't have to be segregated from each other because they remain civilised. That's by no means just a rugby thing though. That's an "every other sport on the face of the planet except football and maybe Ice Hockey in Canada" thing.heads watch it.Willy Nilly said:
I've been to Twickenham to watch England play Australia. You'd have to say, that it was a rather, err, quiet affair with not much by the way of atmosphere. Half of the crowd were too pissed to actually watch what was going on.
Have you asked yourself what would happen if England football fans were allowed to drink on the terraces? Having said that, if you're basing your views on one international at Twickenham, you're doing so on the worst possible example!
I've given up on paying to see England matches just because they've got stupidly expensive, so the last three occasions I've been to Twickenham have been for the Harlequins' Christmas Big Games. They set the pricing deliberately low to sell out an 80,000+ stadium for a club match, and most of the kids' tickets are a quid each, so there are loads of families.
The opposition for the last two years have been Gloucester, and I really hope that's the case indefinitely, as their fans are wonderful! Two years ago, we had a Gloucester family sat in front of us and the son, who I'd guess was around 20 decided to take it on himself to try and out-cheer the couple of hundred Quins fans in the few rows directly behind him, many of whom were the under 8s that I help coach on a Sunday morning. At the end of the match (a wonderful 43 all draw), they'd all lost their voices, had massive grins on their faces, and the Gloucester lad went round all the kids shaking hands with them, whilst still trying to claim he was louder than they were. No England match will come close.
Willy Nilly said:
I have heard talk of professional rugby players being substituted and then going to sit in the stands and getting pissed with the paying crowd. You are professional sportsmen, you should be warming down, eating quality food set out by you coach and having a massage after a game not getting pissed. Not getting pissed ever when you are a pro sportsman. I'm an amateur runner and drinking has a huge impact on my performance. Were my running paying my bills I'd not even walk down the beer isle in the supermarket. I can only imagine Dave Braislfords response if Bradley Wiggins went and sat in the stands at the velodrome and got pissed after a race.
Then somebody has been winding you up, as that's absolute bks. Firstly, you should be aware that only the top 26 clubs in England actually are professional. All the clubs below that are semi-pro at most, and playing for the enjoyment of the game. If those guys fancy a few pints after the game, why shouldn't they?The pros, though, are consummate professionals. We had a stadium tour at Quins a couple of weeks ago, and that included them talking us through exactly the sort of regime you've described above, except they seemed to put more focus on the 6-7 degree plunge pools than they did on massage!
Quite apart from anything else, unless the player in question has been subbed off because of an injury preventing him from continuing, he won't be going anywhere other than onto the bench and keeping warm, as under certain circumstances they can actually be brought back into play!
Willy Nilly said:
So as I am so wrong about what is termed as a penalty, I assume they are what would be an indirect free kick. But, having asked a rugby player on this subject I was told that they certainly are as important and for example a penalty in football, where the whole crowd jumps up and shouts PENALTY! As that's the case, there's certainly an issue in rugby with players breaking the rules when they concede so many penalties each game.
Penalties in rugby can be awarded anywhere on the pitch, and as such equate not only to penalties in football, but also to most free kicks in football. I say most, as there are also free kicks in rugby, but you don't see them very often.Certainly some penalties in rugby can be as important as a penalty in football, especially if you're two points down with 30 seconds to go and you get a kickable penalty in front of the posts, but the vast majority of them are not.
Whether from penalties, tries or dropped goals, both sides will generally score far more frequently in a game of rugby that in a game of football, and many of the penalties awarded will give the team benefitting from it a chance to clear their own lines rather than scoring at the other end. This is very different to the position in football where if you're awarded a penalty, you're highly likely to score in a game which is often settled by a single goal.
Edited by Kermit power on Wednesday 3rd May 23:09
Willy Nilly said:
I'm an amateur runner and drinking has a huge impact on my performance. Were my running paying my bills I'd not even walk down the beer isle in the supermarket. I can only imagine Dave Braislfords response if Bradley Wiggins went and sat in the stands at the velodrome and got pissed after a race.
I'm struggling to think of a proper sport, with hand-eye coordination involved, that hasn't had someone upset the apple cart by turning up drunk and winning.Badminton maybe.
wsurfa said:
I think you fundamentally don't understand the game either technically (no shame there as it is much more complicated than football) or from a participation perspective. Rugby's reason for existing is that a lot of people of all shapes and sizes enjoy a contact sport with a high level of camaraderie. 5'8" and 16 stone , 5"7' and 11 stone, or 6'8" and 22 stone there is a position you can excel at.
I've watched in many stadia and, apart from the olympic stadium, never found a lack of atmosphere, a lack of people wanting to kick your head in because you're blue/red (delete as appropriate) yes that was missing.
I've never seen a half a crowd too pissed to watch the game, even at the 7s in HK (49.9% probably in HK to be fair...)
Pro's drinking in the crowd - unlikely. Pro rugby has led football in many sports science areas, the latest being GPS (when was that finally allowed by the FA - 2015?), mainly because of the greater physical toll that matches take compared to football hence a requirement for close management of players.
Greater physical toll doesn't mean better. It does mean that diet is incredibly important, because if it isn't managed properly then you cant recover for the game to train properly, then your injury rate increases and performance decreases.
The downside of the increase in size, speed and fitness of players is the much increased collision forces and so the work on concussion & other injuries, and trying to minimise it.
An ex Scotland international said 'Rugby is more dangerous, more physical, more complicated. Football is faster, more open, and simpler.'
You've obviously not attended and Army v Navy game at Twickenham then... I've watched in many stadia and, apart from the olympic stadium, never found a lack of atmosphere, a lack of people wanting to kick your head in because you're blue/red (delete as appropriate) yes that was missing
.I've never seen a half a crowd too pissed to watch the game, even at the 7s in HK (49.9% probably in HK to be fair...)
Pro's drinking in the crowd - unlikely. Pro rugby has led football in many sports science areas, the latest being GPS (when was that finally allowed by the FA - 2015?), mainly because of the greater physical toll that matches take compared to football hence a requirement for close management of players.
Greater physical toll doesn't mean better. It does mean that diet is incredibly important, because if it isn't managed properly then you cant recover for the game to train properly, then your injury rate increases and performance decreases.
The downside of the increase in size, speed and fitness of players is the much increased collision forces and so the work on concussion & other injuries, and trying to minimise it.
An ex Scotland international said 'Rugby is more dangerous, more physical, more complicated. Football is faster, more open, and simpler.'
Willy Nilly said:
I'm not a football fan. Which make my point that unions whole reason for being is that "it's better than football"
Why on earth is football the yardstick that everything needs to be relative to? Why can't Rugby Union's reason for being be - because it's rugby union.Willy Nilly said:
I have heard talk of professional rugby players being substituted and then going to sit in the stands and getting pissed with the paying crowd. You are professional sportsmen, you should be warming down, eating quality food set out by you coach and having a massage after a game not getting pissed. Not getting pissed ever when you are a pro sportsman. I'm an amateur runner and drinking has a huge impact on my performance. Were my running paying my bills I'd not even walk down the beer isle in the supermarket. I can only imagine Dave Braislfords response if Bradley Wiggins went and sat in the stands at the velodrome and got pissed after a race.
Where on earth have you heard talk of this? I haven't seen or heard of anything of the sort in my 15 years of playing and watching.....It says something that you were willing to take such an absurd idea at face value! There is socialising with the opposition after all games at all levels, and some players will also go and socialise with fans. I believe this is called being 'accessible'. Seriously - watch a modern rugby game and the players physiques are all what they need to be for the various different jobs they have to do. Props for example are designed to push - that is their job. Look at Eddie Hall's physique for instance - really powerful strong lads are doughy. So long as they push at scrum, maul and ruck time, we're all good.
Willy Nilly said:
So as I am so wrong about what is termed as a penalty, I assume they are what would be an indirect free kick. But, having asked a rugby player on this subject I was told that they certainly are as important and for example a penalty in football, where the whole crowd jumps up and shouts PENALTY! As that's the case, there's certainly an issue in rugby with players breaking the rules when they concede so many penalties each game.
Once again - stop using football as your point of reference. Its not the same game. In rugby some laws carry a more serious sanction than others, hence the grading in scrum/free kick/penalty. Also, remember if used as an opportunity to score, its worth about 40% of the maximum score available - not 100% like in football.In football a penalty doesn't depend on the severity of the offence, merely it's location on the pitch. The logic is that it deprived the player of an opportunity to shoot, so they are given a free shot. But it's just a free kick outside the area - but you can still score from that. It's harder, but you still can.
I'm sorry - but it just sounds like you have a massive chip on your shoulder based on your perceived stereotypes of the game (because its sure isn't based on even a small understanding of the game) and your inability to understand the game in isolation away from a comparison with football.
Edited by Vocal Minority on Thursday 4th May 09:32
MarshPhantom said:
Rugby, like Cricket and unlike football, most people only care about England beating the foreigners rather than any real interest in local teams or the sport itself. Can't say I'm a fan.
I think that's firstly largely down to exposure and secondly, changing quite rapidly.There has been extensive TV coverage of club football in the UK for decades, whereas for rugby and cricket there has been practically no coverage of anything except internationals until much more recently.
Things are definitely changing though. The next challenge is that for many clubs even in the top flight, that average attendance figure of 13,000+ is pretty much limited by stadium capacity! Harlequins, for example, have a stadium capacity of 14,800, sell out for pretty much every league and European game, and pretty much sell out the 80,000 or so at Twickenham once a year.
As more people watch club rugby on TV, so more people will watch it at the ground, and so it will grow.
Also worth bearing in mind that football clubs have immensely more marketing budget than rugby clubs!
Yep.
Half of all Premiership games have been broadcast live on BT Sport for the last couple of years - with MOTD style highlights on ITV 4.
I think as England get more successful and people realise that all the stars have a day job beyond the England set up, interest will grow. Even lowly Worcester get 12 and a bit thousand now.
Half of all Premiership games have been broadcast live on BT Sport for the last couple of years - with MOTD style highlights on ITV 4.
I think as England get more successful and people realise that all the stars have a day job beyond the England set up, interest will grow. Even lowly Worcester get 12 and a bit thousand now.
I've grown up playing rugby and still do- I'm based in Surrey and it really is a divide. At junior level it very much is a case of upper/upper middle classes playing. Whereas when you get to senior level it diversifies- you will have rough teams and you will have very well to do teams- My local team is incredibly diverse in terms of players- some are upper class and some are working class, no one really cares where you come from- it's just about the camaraderie and the love of the game!
Vocal Minority said:
Yep.
Half of all Premiership games have been broadcast live on BT Sport for the last couple of years - with MOTD style highlights on ITV 4.
I think as England get more successful and people realise that all the stars have a day job beyond the England set up, interest will grow. Even lowly Worcester get 12 and a bit thousand now.
The number of junior, under 18s, has been going up steadily in my club. In fact we are struggling to cope a bit. The number of spectators has increased over the last couple of seasons, and this despite an appalling beginning and middle to this season. TV helps, although with BT being the broadcaster for Premiership matches I doubt if that helps much. Half of all Premiership games have been broadcast live on BT Sport for the last couple of years - with MOTD style highlights on ITV 4.
I think as England get more successful and people realise that all the stars have a day job beyond the England set up, interest will grow. Even lowly Worcester get 12 and a bit thousand now.
We always get an increase in interest after each 6N, regardless of how well England perform. RWC is good for recruitment. This last time there were a couple of games in town and the Samoans stayed in the city centre. They trained on our pitch. There were few supporters but the Yanks played at the local venue and their supporters were a great crowd, oddly enough very rugby.
The growth is good for the sport, but I hope it is steady rather than lots of ups and downs. I went to a level 4 match last Sat and there was nearly 1000 there, most of whom paid. This despite the visiting team coming from miles away. It will never rival football, and I'm glad it won't.
If you compare rugby now to before it went pro, it is much more popular. That's in just 21 seasons. I think the future is healthy. We have an all weather pitch and it gives good rugby when there's been a wet winter. I think that's the future. It certainly gets the kids in. Mum drops them off in the 4x4 and picks them up fairly clean, even if it's been raining.
The RFU needs to sort one or two aspects of the game out, which I assume they will do with their normal innovation and energy. Regardless of that, the future's bright for rugby union.
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