**** Tour de France 2017 ****
Discussion
ferrisbueller said:
David Millar was saying he is helping Bardet with his TT technique and mindset.
A bit o/t, but I really warmed to David Millar on the commentary, listenable and very good insights.Will Froome go for a 5th? I'm not so sure, he couldn't dominate this year and next year his team will be different, plus the competition will likely be just as strong. I guess it depends on the route.
I like the tour and its epic quality but gradually had the feeling something doesn't feel right
about it.
This year we had Froome as usual win but the whole thing is basically a guy get paced and
protected by someone blocking the wind for him which reduces the peddling effort
required.
As far as I remember no individual stage wins this year but a few seconds better over the
line than nearest rivals.
As an example if athletics ran 21 10000 metre races over 21 days and the guy with the
best times added up (most likely someone in the pack) was heaped with eternal glory it
would seem odd .
Somebody is winning each one of those epic tour 21 individual races and then forgot at
the end of the 3 week race as we bow down to shaved seconds boy.
I dont have any solution for what would be better and maybe this is whats best.
about it.
This year we had Froome as usual win but the whole thing is basically a guy get paced and
protected by someone blocking the wind for him which reduces the peddling effort
required.
As far as I remember no individual stage wins this year but a few seconds better over the
line than nearest rivals.
As an example if athletics ran 21 10000 metre races over 21 days and the guy with the
best times added up (most likely someone in the pack) was heaped with eternal glory it
would seem odd .
Somebody is winning each one of those epic tour 21 individual races and then forgot at
the end of the 3 week race as we bow down to shaved seconds boy.
I dont have any solution for what would be better and maybe this is whats best.
There is only so much you can do to help someone with TT.
You need to be able to get aerodynamic and have a decent engine, and know how to pace an effort. Some of those things are massively in your control (aero/pacing) some really are not, arguably if you're terrible at TT now after having been told you need to sort it, I do wonder how much improvement he can make.
Kwiat time trial is surprising, I should think he just has a huge engine for someone of his small size. Sky certainly have invested in aero sessions for their riders, and even as an amateur that has done similar I know how much can be saved in the position. Far more than you'll ever find as a pro in watts that you produce.
At the end of the day, they designed this route to upset the apple cart somewhat, and it did. But CF team and TT was too good. I would like to think Porte would have challenged him, but I think CF likely would still have been the rider to beat.
I am interested to see how he will be going for the Vuleta though, no doubt he was in less than perfect form in the mountains, but perhaps he will have more in the tank for Vuelta than previous times.
@turbomoped - paced yes, but do not underestimate just how hard it still is to ride 3rd man up every climb, there's not a huge amount to be saved in draft. You still have to then ride on your own at the end of that also. You didn't make the comparison, but it almost sounds as if you think this is similar to a sprint train in being dropped off at the end. Not the case in the slightest.
Regards a 5th - yes 100% he will go for it, that puts him into a very select group. Team will be different, but then its been different most of the times he's won. And there can't be a route that is much worse than this one for him I should think.
One thing this highlighted was just how stupid Quintana was doing the Giro. And not even winning it!
You need to be able to get aerodynamic and have a decent engine, and know how to pace an effort. Some of those things are massively in your control (aero/pacing) some really are not, arguably if you're terrible at TT now after having been told you need to sort it, I do wonder how much improvement he can make.
Kwiat time trial is surprising, I should think he just has a huge engine for someone of his small size. Sky certainly have invested in aero sessions for their riders, and even as an amateur that has done similar I know how much can be saved in the position. Far more than you'll ever find as a pro in watts that you produce.
At the end of the day, they designed this route to upset the apple cart somewhat, and it did. But CF team and TT was too good. I would like to think Porte would have challenged him, but I think CF likely would still have been the rider to beat.
I am interested to see how he will be going for the Vuleta though, no doubt he was in less than perfect form in the mountains, but perhaps he will have more in the tank for Vuelta than previous times.
@turbomoped - paced yes, but do not underestimate just how hard it still is to ride 3rd man up every climb, there's not a huge amount to be saved in draft. You still have to then ride on your own at the end of that also. You didn't make the comparison, but it almost sounds as if you think this is similar to a sprint train in being dropped off at the end. Not the case in the slightest.
Regards a 5th - yes 100% he will go for it, that puts him into a very select group. Team will be different, but then its been different most of the times he's won. And there can't be a route that is much worse than this one for him I should think.
One thing this highlighted was just how stupid Quintana was doing the Giro. And not even winning it!
Edited by okgo on Monday 24th July 12:44
WestyCarl said:
ferrisbueller said:
David Millar was saying he is helping Bardet with his TT technique and mindset.
A bit o/t, but I really warmed to David Millar on the commentary, listenable and very good insights.Will Froome go for a 5th? I'm not so sure, he couldn't dominate this year and next year his team will be different, plus the competition will likely be just as strong. I guess it depends on the route.
turbomoped said:
I like the tour and its epic quality but gradually had the feeling something doesn't feel right
about it.
This year we had Froome as usual win but the whole thing is basically a guy get paced and
protected by someone blocking the wind for him which reduces the peddling effort
required.
thats how it worksabout it.
This year we had Froome as usual win but the whole thing is basically a guy get paced and
protected by someone blocking the wind for him which reduces the peddling effort
required.
turbomoped said:
As an example if athletics ran 21 10000 metre races over 21 days and the guy with the
best times added up (most likely someone in the pack) was heaped with eternal glory it
would seem odd .
Not if the idea is the runner who takes the least time to complete all 21 individual races it wouldn'tbest times added up (most likely someone in the pack) was heaped with eternal glory it
would seem odd .
turbomoped said:
Somebody is winning each one of those epic tour 21 individual races and then forgot at
the end of the 3 week race as we bow down to shaved seconds boy.
.
Thats because he completed the ENTIRE distance in the least time. the end of the 3 week race as we bow down to shaved seconds boy.
.
A grand tour is so good because of the GC competition, the individual jersey competitions as well as the individual stage wins all going on in the same race.
If you're new to watching cycling i can see (perhaps) how it could seem like this. If you're not new to watching cycling then....maybe its not the sport for you?
I love the TDF but for me it was a bit anticlimactic this time around. Sagen, Cav and Porte going out was a shame and I wonder if having the TT on the penultimate day reduces the tension? Perhaps if it was 5 days from the end with a couple of mountain stages afterwards it might help. Froome was brilliant on the day he had a mechanical and fought back. But once he'd done that it was a one horse race. Still, I guess it's often a one horse race. Even as a keen viewer for 30 years I have mixed feelings about the etiquette thing. I know that we dont want to see someone lose because of a mechanical but sport is all about uncertainty, isn't it?
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