Cricket - England vs WIndies Summer 2017
Discussion
I personally have no issue with Roots declaration, I hope he does it more often. We were beaten by the team that played better over the majority of the match.
Agreed that cricket needed this. While it would be nice to win every game against the WIndies, a strong WIndies team against everyone would be excellent.
Agreed that cricket needed this. While it would be nice to win every game against the WIndies, a strong WIndies team against everyone would be excellent.
TheAngryDog said:
I personally have no issue with Roots declaration, I hope he does it more often. We were beaten by the team that played better over the majority of the match.
Agreed that cricket needed this. While it would be nice to win every game against the WIndies, a strong WIndies team against everyone would be excellent.
Agreed - a good match, and the best team won. Agreed that cricket needed this. While it would be nice to win every game against the WIndies, a strong WIndies team against everyone would be excellent.
king sort it out England. All square,I don't understand why test cricket "needs" a strong West Indies. It needs strong sides, and to be honest all this match has done is demonstrate that the 3rd ranked test side in the world isn't as good as it should be.
And being very parochial, we haven't learnt very much about who our strongest side is. If the purpose of the tactics was to force that issue, it didn't work.
I'd also suggest as a captain going into The Ashes, Root needed to learn how to close a series out.
Playing flamboyant cricket and "going for it" is all well and good...but we're playing these series to test ourselves and to win.
The WI deserved the win. Massive credit to them. But the quality in the England line up should have precluded that result. They were woeful with the bat and field in the first innings. Fought back and put themselves into a decent position, then threw it away again. They're weaknesses that will get badly exposed in Australia IMO.
I remember watching England play the WI when they were fearsome (70s as a kid with my grandad). I bet the WI cricket board weren't worried about what was good for world cricket in those days, just winning and thoroughly demolishing the opposition.
And being very parochial, we haven't learnt very much about who our strongest side is. If the purpose of the tactics was to force that issue, it didn't work.
I'd also suggest as a captain going into The Ashes, Root needed to learn how to close a series out.
Playing flamboyant cricket and "going for it" is all well and good...but we're playing these series to test ourselves and to win.
The WI deserved the win. Massive credit to them. But the quality in the England line up should have precluded that result. They were woeful with the bat and field in the first innings. Fought back and put themselves into a decent position, then threw it away again. They're weaknesses that will get badly exposed in Australia IMO.
I remember watching England play the WI when they were fearsome (70s as a kid with my grandad). I bet the WI cricket board weren't worried about what was good for world cricket in those days, just winning and thoroughly demolishing the opposition.
Test Cricket is like most sports, in the end it is entertainment. If Root batted on over night and say until we were bowled out, whenever that may have been, he would likely not have added many more runs, but taken time out of the game.
The result which would be most likely is a draw, the least entertaining result. Would crowds have turned up to watch a fifth day draw being played out ? Would people listened and watched, and overall does it further damage test crickets somewhat precarious position as the Blue Ribbon of Cricket ?
WI have enough trouble getting their top players willing to play in Tests, that is partly money and partly their perception that they "can't" win.
There are very few cricket nations anyway, to have meaningful cricket with variety of style, pitches, climates, tactics and challenges going on globally, we need a WI side that is decent/competitive - We need New Zealand to tour the WI, Australia, Lanka etc to all be playing regualr test cricket. Otherwise it will be limited to England, SA, India and Australia and the spectacule will reduc, diminish and eventually fade under a deluge of boom boom cricket.
Root made a decent call, he set them the a top 20 all time run chase in test cricket, and I think a ground record on a reasonably worn pitch which was turning. With the bowling firepower at Englands disposal it was in my view a good decision.
WI batted very very well, and held up under pressure. Give credit where it is due, they out played us.
Seconded ^^^
Test cricket is by it's very nature a difficult one to get across to nations who don't play. I used to get some real stick in the Swedish office, sitting there listening to TMS over t'internet, "how can you have a sport with meal breaks, when you stop to go to bed for a sleep" they would scoff. Cricket has moved on from the says when it was an option for the tubbies, these guys are athletes, bowling the overs that Jimmy A does at 35, bloody footballists getting cramp after an hour of intermittent running about. Ok biased obvs, but can you imagine today WG Grace or Colin Milburn being picked in their shape, admittedly there have been some recent decent players on the world stage with a beer gut, yes you Shane Warne.
The skill at making the ball do what you want, swing, not swing, cutters either way, spin, straight on etc. All this is lost on casual viewers, who only seem to have patience for bish, bash, bosh. Those folks won't appreciate just what a cracking job Windies made of their 2nd innings yesterday, nor England in theirs.
Test cricket is by it's very nature a difficult one to get across to nations who don't play. I used to get some real stick in the Swedish office, sitting there listening to TMS over t'internet, "how can you have a sport with meal breaks, when you stop to go to bed for a sleep" they would scoff. Cricket has moved on from the says when it was an option for the tubbies, these guys are athletes, bowling the overs that Jimmy A does at 35, bloody footballists getting cramp after an hour of intermittent running about. Ok biased obvs, but can you imagine today WG Grace or Colin Milburn being picked in their shape, admittedly there have been some recent decent players on the world stage with a beer gut, yes you Shane Warne.
The skill at making the ball do what you want, swing, not swing, cutters either way, spin, straight on etc. All this is lost on casual viewers, who only seem to have patience for bish, bash, bosh. Those folks won't appreciate just what a cracking job Windies made of their 2nd innings yesterday, nor England in theirs.
Murph7355 said:
I remember watching England play the WI when they were fearsome (70s as a kid with my grandad). I bet the WI cricket board weren't worried about what was good for world cricket in those days, just winning and thoroughly demolishing the opposition.
I don't disagree Murph , but in the 70's there wasn't any doubt that Test Cricket was the only type of international cricket, and huge crowds in the West Indies and a massive following everywhere they went, meant they were box office, heck the bbc used to broadcast all five days (if we lasted that long) and it was a major sport - which is where I guess most of us first saw the game. Sky did many good things with cricket that the Beeb weren't able to do, but there is no doubt it is now a sport you are unlikely to watch unless you are a dedicated fan already.
Gargamel said:
I don't disagree Murph , but in the 70's there wasn't any doubt that Test Cricket was the only type of international cricket, and huge crowds in the West Indies and a massive following everywhere they went, meant they were box office, heck the bbc used to broadcast all five days (if we lasted that long) and it was a major sport - which is where I guess most of us first saw the game.
Sky did many good things with cricket that the Beeb weren't able to do, but there is no doubt it is now a sport you are unlikely to watch unless you are a dedicated fan already.
I don't think "purposefully" keeping a test delicately balanced will change the 5 day game's appeal. Sky did many good things with cricket that the Beeb weren't able to do, but there is no doubt it is now a sport you are unlikely to watch unless you are a dedicated fan already.
And am not sure it's worth trying.
Limited overs cricket is great for getting people into the overall sport. I know quite a few who've dipped their toe in the cricket water through that route and who are now keen to go to a 5 day match and who are following it much more closely.
The nature of a test means its appeal will always be limited IMO (not that you'd know when trying to get tickets!). The world is a different place now and multi day events aren't well loved. But respect for that form of cricket includes closing out a series. There's as much skill in that as there is smacking the ball around etc, even if it's not as exciting
To be fair, hindsight plays a big part in judging the call made. The bowlers should have made more of that wicket and some of the dropped catches were schoolboy.
That said, Root had seen us struggle in the first innings and then pile on runs in the second...
Am at the second day at Lords and am looking forward to it. Will be interesting to see if we respond as we did against SA.
Was half aiming to take the family out for the Ashes, but am glad that hasn't come off at the moment...next tour we'll go
When Root saw Moeen turning the ball at the end of day 4 he must have thought he'd made the right decision. I don't think you'd see the same decision in an Ashes test though. As well as WI batted, England were a bit lacklustre on day 5. But overall, WI deserved their win - if they'd held their catches they would have won by more.
Personally, I would have played Hales & Rashid at some point in this Test series. Still think Hales has something to offer at Test level.
Personally, I would have played Hales & Rashid at some point in this Test series. Still think Hales has something to offer at Test level.
Murph7355 said:
I don't understand why test cricket "needs" a strong West Indies. It needs strong sides, and to be honest all this match has done is demonstrate that the 3rd ranked test side in the world isn't as good as it should be.
I think there is a certain nostalgia when people (like me) say that we need a strong West Indies - that team of the late 70s to late 80s is my favourite international sports side ever.So may great players, and great crowds to go with it.
desolate said:
I think there is a certain nostalgia when people (like me) say that we need a strong West Indies - that team of the late 70s to late 80s is my favourite international sports side ever.
So may great players, and great crowds to go with it.
Don't get me wrong, I too carry a lot of nostalgia for it (ironically not necessarily in a great way, though one that makes me smile).So may great players, and great crowds to go with it.
But sport at this level is about winning. Being resigned to your team getting a battering by a better side and accepting it graciously is part of the "contract". But when you have the stronger team and they don't perform it's frustrating
We need to get that grit and focus that means you put teams to the sword every time. The WI had it back then. Anyway, looks like a raincoat will be the order of the day for Friday. Pretty sure I didn't bother with covered seats which may prove a mistake, but looking forward to a strong England performance. I just wish they'd put Hales in and mixed it up a bit. The Ashes should at least be exciting
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/09/06/chri...
Quite a bit I agree with in here, especially moving Stokes up the order. I would still think that Root will ultimately play at three, maybe not until after the Ashes, but sooner or later.
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