Six Nations 2018
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
It didn't happen, right? It was a mistake. The best team in the NH, with a defence that is impermeable and some brilliant players didn't lose to the only team in the 6N that wants Italy to stay in.
It was a nightmare, wasn't it?
No Derek, it happened. It was a great game of rugby, with adventure, skill, power and ambition. It was a nightmare, wasn't it?
Only the stuff of bad dreams for those so loyal to the losing team.
For the stuff of nightmares, I suspect you'd have to experience a Scot driving for Ferrari beating Hamilton.....
Leithen said:
Derek Smith said:
It didn't happen, right? It was a mistake. The best team in the NH, with a defence that is impermeable and some brilliant players didn't lose to the only team in the 6N that wants Italy to stay in.
It was a nightmare, wasn't it?
No Derek, it happened. It was a great game of rugby, with adventure, skill, power and ambition. It was a nightmare, wasn't it?
Only the stuff of bad dreams for those so loyal to the losing team.
For the stuff of nightmares, I suspect you'd have to experience a Scot driving for Ferrari beating Hamilton.....
My favourite F1 driver was a Scot. The next was Swedish, the fabulous Ronnie Peterson. I'm not so parochial when it comes to F1. Much as I like watching Hamilton, I'm sure I'd be as excited if he was French. I'd say it is neck and neck between him and Verstappen as my current favourite. Cut down on the number of unforced errors, Max, and you've got me.
Derek Smith said:
Let's not over-react. It's one match. The biggest winning streak has only recently ended and the record in the 6N has been, let's face it, almost identical to Italy's but in reverse.
We've got a great coach, we have strength in depth that must be the envy of the rest of the 6N. Our front 5 put in a superb performance and our second row is world class. We need tweaking but then doesn't every team.
We lost. It's no big deal. Discover why and change.
The worst thing that could happen in the 6N is to have an unbeatable team, even England. The worst thing that can happen to the best team in the NH is to be unbeaten.
It's one game is all.
It was an exciting match.
Nah. I think Stuart Barnes was correct when he said this England team has gone as far as it canWe've got a great coach, we have strength in depth that must be the envy of the rest of the 6N. Our front 5 put in a superb performance and our second row is world class. We need tweaking but then doesn't every team.
We lost. It's no big deal. Discover why and change.
The worst thing that could happen in the 6N is to have an unbeatable team, even England. The worst thing that can happen to the best team in the NH is to be unbeaten.
It's one game is all.
It was an exciting match.
Ask yourself who the All Blacks would swap for an England player in their team. Maybe Launchbury, maybe Lawes and possibly Farrell at 12.
That is pretty much it.
Losing that game WAS a big deal. Top teams don't fail in that manner when there's a trophy at stake. Last year the Ireland game could be passed off as a blip. This was a bit more than that. They just seem to lack rugby instincts in the way that the best teams have it in spades, and they do stupid things when they shouldn't. They are not a particularly bright bunch, Farrell excepted.
Joey Ramone said:
Nah. I think Stuart Barnes was correct when he said this England team has gone as far as it can
Ask yourself who the All Blacks would swap for an England player in their team. Maybe Launchbury, maybe Lawes and possibly Farrell at 12.
That is pretty much it.
Losing that game WAS a big deal. Top teams don't fail in that manner when there's a trophy at stake. Last year the Ireland game could be passed off as a blip. This was a bit more than that. They just seem to lack rugby instincts in the way that the best teams have it in spades, and they do stupid things when they shouldn't. They are not a particularly bright bunch, Farrell excepted.
Yet it is clearly the best team in the NH. The defence, up until Saturday, has been exceptional.Ask yourself who the All Blacks would swap for an England player in their team. Maybe Launchbury, maybe Lawes and possibly Farrell at 12.
That is pretty much it.
Losing that game WAS a big deal. Top teams don't fail in that manner when there's a trophy at stake. Last year the Ireland game could be passed off as a blip. This was a bit more than that. They just seem to lack rugby instincts in the way that the best teams have it in spades, and they do stupid things when they shouldn't. They are not a particularly bright bunch, Farrell excepted.
There were good performances in England's side. As I say, the tight 5 didn't put a foot wrong. There was a penalty against them but, as so often happens, everyone was bewildered as to why, including, I think, the bloke who awarded it.
There's a massive problem with Launchbury; he is always superb so his performances are often ignored.
I'm not sure what is meant by the team going as far as it can. It has dominated the NH for some time. A record breaking run has only recently come to an end. A coach can go as far as he can but I'm not sure I'd agree with the calls for his resignation.
Martin Johnson - we need another one of him as captain - cited complacency. He's probably right I think. England were lacklustre in the first half. Johnson would have been having conversations with his own team, the ref and the opposition. That was missing from Saturday.
They went into the match with a game plan, presumably based on Scotland's past performances. For reason unknown, Scotland played much better than they have in years and England struggled to reply. They stuck to the game plan. It was wrong. Russell confused them I think.
I'm struggling to think of any player in the NH whom the ABs would swop one of theirs for.
The worst thing for England would be a knee-jerk reaction to what is, after all, just one defeat. Let's see how things go.
I’m with Derek. It’s one match. Let’s not over react. There are still bits of the spectrum between black and white.
England are still no 2 in the world (I think). They lost two of their last, what, 26 games. That’s a very impressive record in anyone’s book.
The ABs lose games. Big games. France and Twickenham, Australia in Aus in some pretty important RWC matches. And they lost them through being outplayed. Simple.
Townsend, to his credit, worked out how to beat England. Barclay was immense. Not only did he slow down England ball at the breakdown (rewatch the fist half against Wales and England’s recycling speed was phenomenal), he was causing turnovers. Lots of them.
And that additional time Scotland had at the breakdown allowed their defence to get right into England’s face. They saw through England’s secondary deeper attacking line effectively.
Then add to that an intensity with which they almost never play (Hogg often looks like the only back who has turned up. Yesterday he was eclipsed by pretty much every other Scottish back), plus the trademark Townsend attacking from organised chaos in the back line and you can see why things planned out they way they did.
Jones is no dummy though. He will adapt, set a game plan to implement when a future opposition does that and then opposition coaches will look for new ways to break England down.
Now you can argue that the players ought to have been able to adapt on the hoof and work around Scotland, but no team is The Borg and no team is invincible.
Learn from it, make the right changes, move on.
England are still no 2 in the world (I think). They lost two of their last, what, 26 games. That’s a very impressive record in anyone’s book.
The ABs lose games. Big games. France and Twickenham, Australia in Aus in some pretty important RWC matches. And they lost them through being outplayed. Simple.
Townsend, to his credit, worked out how to beat England. Barclay was immense. Not only did he slow down England ball at the breakdown (rewatch the fist half against Wales and England’s recycling speed was phenomenal), he was causing turnovers. Lots of them.
And that additional time Scotland had at the breakdown allowed their defence to get right into England’s face. They saw through England’s secondary deeper attacking line effectively.
Then add to that an intensity with which they almost never play (Hogg often looks like the only back who has turned up. Yesterday he was eclipsed by pretty much every other Scottish back), plus the trademark Townsend attacking from organised chaos in the back line and you can see why things planned out they way they did.
Jones is no dummy though. He will adapt, set a game plan to implement when a future opposition does that and then opposition coaches will look for new ways to break England down.
Now you can argue that the players ought to have been able to adapt on the hoof and work around Scotland, but no team is The Borg and no team is invincible.
Learn from it, make the right changes, move on.
Derek Smith said:
They went into the match with a game plan, presumably based on Scotland's past performances. For reason unknown, Scotland played much better than they have in years and England struggled to reply. They stuck to the game plan. It was wrong. Russell confused them I think.
Sorry, but that is nonsense. In the last 12 months Scotland have beaten Ireland and Australia and given the AB's a heck of a fright. So,after yesterday they've beaten three of the top four ranked teams, and very nearly all four, in the past year. Yes, they can turn in awful performances (Wales) but these days the good is as often as the bad.I agree that England were complacent, some of that lazy defensive work that resulted in two of the Scotland tries was laughable.
I'm not too displeased we lost, I was fed up of the Calcutta Cup being a forgone conclusion every year anyway, it's nice to see some the fixture regain some relevance. It also makes the final few games of the 6N a lot more exciting now that several teams are still in it. Obviously Ireland are favourites but it is interesting to speculate what might happen.
One problem for Ireland is that they play such a committed high intensity game that injuries tend to mount up by the end of the series.
Well done Scotland, an excellent performance.
I'm not too displeased we lost, I was fed up of the Calcutta Cup being a forgone conclusion every year anyway, it's nice to see some the fixture regain some relevance. It also makes the final few games of the 6N a lot more exciting now that several teams are still in it. Obviously Ireland are favourites but it is interesting to speculate what might happen.
One problem for Ireland is that they play such a committed high intensity game that injuries tend to mount up by the end of the series.
Well done Scotland, an excellent performance.
TBH I think that the warning signs have been there for a while - we were lucky against Wales (though in fairness this England side work hard and so a fair chunk of 'luck' comes from that), but we have stuttered a fair bit recently. Yes we blew past Italy, but we also gave them some soft tries. Last year we had the ask the ref what to do against the Italians.... it strikes me we can't really think on our feet (is this possibly another reason that Cips is out of favour - he is just too unpredictable?).
With regards to English players in the the AB's I suspect you could make an argument for the following in the 23 (in descending order):
Farrell
Itoje
Billy V
Mako V
Launchbury
Daly
With regards to English players in the the AB's I suspect you could make an argument for the following in the 23 (in descending order):
Farrell
Itoje
Billy V
Mako V
Launchbury
Daly
t we dish out it's only right we get it back in return 
I thought England had a chance when in the last 20 mins laidlaw was tiring and giving slow ball.
But Farrel the playmaker started to go missing with regard to strategic kicking and the forwards were just tunneled into a forwards battle,thier whole game plan and vision went wanting.
Scotland replaced Laidlaw and a the ball was retained and used better.
Fair play to Scotland as that was hard fought.
Ireland have it all to do and have made hard work of the French and Wales game. Joe is getting there though and building a quality squad.
I'm still very nervous when Ireland play though,but dreaming of a grand slam.
But Farrel the playmaker started to go missing with regard to strategic kicking and the forwards were just tunneled into a forwards battle,thier whole game plan and vision went wanting.
Scotland replaced Laidlaw and a the ball was retained and used better.
Fair play to Scotland as that was hard fought.
Ireland have it all to do and have made hard work of the French and Wales game. Joe is getting there though and building a quality squad.
I'm still very nervous when Ireland play though,but dreaming of a grand slam.
Derek Smith said:
Scotland played much better than they have in years and England struggled to reply.
Apart from when we put 8 tries past Australia and were one tackle away from beating the All Blacks about 3 months ago you mean?! 
I assume Jim Clark is your favourite F1 driver? A proud borderer as have been many of our great rugby players down the years.
Edited by gshughes on Monday 26th February 12:03
Jamie Heaslip has announced his retirement from rugby on medical advice and says the time is right for the next chapter of his life.
The 34-year-old had a second operation on the lower part of his back last November, but has failed to make the desired recovery and has made the decision with immediate effect to ensure his "future well being".
Heaslip won 95 caps for Ireland after making his bow in 2006, winning three Six Nations titles, two Triple Crowns and a Grand Slam in 2009.
The 34-year-old had a second operation on the lower part of his back last November, but has failed to make the desired recovery and has made the decision with immediate effect to ensure his "future well being".
Heaslip won 95 caps for Ireland after making his bow in 2006, winning three Six Nations titles, two Triple Crowns and a Grand Slam in 2009.
Ructions said:
Jamie Heaslip has announced his retirement from rugby on medical advice and says the time is right for the next chapter of his life.
The 34-year-old had a second operation on the lower part of his back last November, but has failed to make the desired recovery and has made the decision with immediate effect to ensure his "future well being".
Heaslip won 95 caps for Ireland after making his bow in 2006, winning three Six Nations titles, two Triple Crowns and a Grand Slam in 2009.
I didn't quite realised he was 34. A fine ambassador for Ireland and he will be missed.The 34-year-old had a second operation on the lower part of his back last November, but has failed to make the desired recovery and has made the decision with immediate effect to ensure his "future well being".
Heaslip won 95 caps for Ireland after making his bow in 2006, winning three Six Nations titles, two Triple Crowns and a Grand Slam in 2009.
gshughes said:
Apart from when we ...... edit....... were one tackle away from beating the All Blacks about 3 months ago you mean?!
Regrettably all that matters is what it says in the record book. Is it a 'W' or an 'L'?It will (sadly) record England as losing. There won't be an asterisk that points to a footnote which says 'England won really, but they were beaten by a dodgy Welsh ref'.
Nearly is not good enough and doesn't count.
The Mad Monk said:
Regrettably all that matters is what it says in the record book. Is it a 'W' or an 'L'?
It will (sadly) record England as losing. There won't be an asterisk that points to a footnote which says 'England won really, but they were beaten by a dodgy Welsh ref'.
Nearly is not good enough and doesn't count.
Assuming you're referring to the Scotland match, then how on earth can you possibly think that Owens reffed it anything other than fairly and well?It will (sadly) record England as losing. There won't be an asterisk that points to a footnote which says 'England won really, but they were beaten by a dodgy Welsh ref'.
Nearly is not good enough and doesn't count.
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