The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)
Discussion
theboyfold said:
It's all go today, Fury is supposed to be fighting Tom Schwarz next in the summer in Vegas. Can't say it's exciting.
https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/515515/tyson-fu...
Have to love the WBO ranking Schwarz at number 2 in the world...https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/515515/tyson-fu...
tuscaneer said:
don't forget that joyce/dubois has been ordered for british title!... not that it will happen though...
Joyce is getting old and Dubois probably thinks he can beat anyone, so maybe it will. No shame to either of them if they lose, and a win puts them right in the shop window. Fwiw Dubois wins comfortably.
EddieSteadyGo said:
theboyfold said:
It's all go today, Fury is supposed to be fighting Tom Schwarz next in the summer in Vegas. Can't say it's exciting.
https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/515515/tyson-fu...
Have to love the WBO ranking Schwarz at number 2 in the world...https://talksport.com/sport/boxing/515515/tyson-fu...
Hope no one tunes in to Fury's fight, and gets slaughtered on social media.
There was no rematch clause in the Wilder fight, yet Wilder offered him one,how is he doing to motivate himself in camp to train hard when he knows it's a sham fight.
Arum has stated that Fury wll have another fight on ESPN this year too, but again not Wilder. They are showing Fury twice this year on basic ESPN and aiming for PPV fights from next year.
There was no rematch clause in the Wilder fight, yet Wilder offered him one,how is he doing to motivate himself in camp to train hard when he knows it's a sham fight.
Arum has stated that Fury wll have another fight on ESPN this year too, but again not Wilder. They are showing Fury twice this year on basic ESPN and aiming for PPV fights from next year.
Edited by hyphen on Saturday 23 March 11:48
The Matchroom boxing tonight at the Copper Box looks like a card of competitive match-ups....
A chap on Twitter has worked out if you place a £10 bet on a four-fight accumulator on Ritson, Buatsi, Okolie and Edwards tonight it will pay out winnings of £12.20... (including your £10 stake).
A chap on Twitter has worked out if you place a £10 bet on a four-fight accumulator on Ritson, Buatsi, Okolie and Edwards tonight it will pay out winnings of £12.20... (including your £10 stake).
Just sat my way through the Gorman Vs Johnson fight. It's interesting now having seen Dubios and Gorman fight him, but also AJ. If you go back and watch AJ's fight against him and it's clear to see that AJ is simply a class apart. His speed, power, accuracy and intent is miles apart from the young heavyweights. I know Johnson didn't come to fight, but Gorman couldn't hurt him AJ didn't have that as an issue and he fought him at a similar time of his career.
I'm slipping in my belief for Gorman at the moment. Need to see more from him.
I'm slipping in my belief for Gorman at the moment. Need to see more from him.
EddieSteadyGo said:
The Matchroom boxing tonight at the Copper Box looks like a card of competitive match-ups....
A chap on Twitter has worked out if you place a £10 bet on a four-fight accumulator on Ritson, Buatsi, Okolie and Edwards tonight it will pay out winnings of £12.20... (including your £10 stake).
Charlie Edwards looked very good but fA chap on Twitter has worked out if you place a £10 bet on a four-fight accumulator on Ritson, Buatsi, Okolie and Edwards tonight it will pay out winnings of £12.20... (including your £10 stake).
k me that Spanish kid was game. Buasti needs a step up now. theboyfold said:
Just sat my way through the Gorman Vs Johnson fight. It's interesting now having seen Dubios and Gorman fight him, but also AJ. If you go back and watch AJ's fight against him and it's clear to see that AJ is simply a class apart. His speed, power, accuracy and intent is miles apart from the young heavyweights. I know Johnson didn't come to fight, but Gorman couldn't hurt him AJ didn't have that as an issue and he fought him at a similar time of his career.
I'm slipping in my belief for Gorman at the moment. Need to see more from him.
I agree with your main points with just the exception that they are not at the same points n their careers. Maybe a similar number of professional fights, but Joshua was 4 years older than Dubois when he faced Johnson. So he was physically much more developed, his technique was much improved, and he had completed at a higher level for longer in the amateurs, winning his gold medal.I'm slipping in my belief for Gorman at the moment. Need to see more from him.
If you have a look at some of Joshua's amateur fights when he was closer to Dubios's age, you see someone quite different from the modern Joshua.
Whether either Gorman or Dubois has the trajectory to get to Joshua's level over the next 3-4 years is an interesting question. Personally, I don't think Gorman has it. But I do think Dubois will.
hyphen said:
Hope no one tunes in to Fury's fight, and gets slaughtered on social media.
There was no rematch clause in the Wilder fight, yet Wilder offered him one,how is he doing to motivate himself in camp to train hard when he knows it's a sham fight.
Arum has stated that Fury wll have another fight on ESPN this year too, but again not Wilder. They are showing Fury twice this year on basic ESPN and aiming for PPV fights from next year.
How do the finance work in boxing? There won't be many people willing to PPV for Fury v Schwarz, so does that mean there are only 4 more opportunities for ESPN to get a return on their investment. If I was giving Fury £80 million I'd want it guaranteed that he fights AJ and Wilder.There was no rematch clause in the Wilder fight, yet Wilder offered him one,how is he doing to motivate himself in camp to train hard when he knows it's a sham fight.
Arum has stated that Fury wll have another fight on ESPN this year too, but again not Wilder. They are showing Fury twice this year on basic ESPN and aiming for PPV fights from next year.
Edited by hyphen on Saturday 23 March 11:48
Fittster said:
How do the finance work in boxing? There won't be many people willing to PPV for Fury v Schwarz, so does that mean there are only 4 more opportunities for ESPN to get a return on their investment. If I was giving Fury £80 million I'd want it guaranteed that he fights AJ and Wilder.
There are two main factors which affect the finances. The first is the regular business of building the scale of interest in a fight. The rematch with Wilder was originally estimated to do around 500k PPV buys, if done straight away.
The calculation is to give both Fury and Wilder interim fights, on regular non-PPV platforms. If they both look great, and the networks continue to build Wilder and Fury, they hope the rematch will do over 1 million PPV buys.
And if they are charging maybe $70, $80, or $90 for the PPV, that generates a massive increase in the size of the pot from which to pay the fighters.
Then, if they can also get a fight with Joshua, you can see potentially how the numbers could scale up to the $100m level.
The second aspect is the emergence of the new competitor, DAZN.
The existing networks are prepared to lose money in the short term by signing fighers and overpaying them, in the hope they can strangle DAZN at birth.
If they can do that, they will save themselves hundreds of millions of $ in the long term from the reduced costs of sports rights fees from less competition.
Hence why ESPN and Fox/Showtime are overpaying to sign fighters at the moment as, if you control the fighters, you reduce what your competitor platform can likely earn.
EddieSteadyGo said:
I agree with your main points with just the exception that they are not at the same points n their careers. Maybe a similar number of professional fights, but Joshua was 4 years older than Dubois when he faced Johnson. So he was physically much more developed, his technique was much improved, and he had completed at a higher level for longer in the amateurs, winning his gold medal.
If you have a look at some of Joshua's amateur fights when he was closer to Dubios's age, you see someone quite different from the modern Joshua.
Whether either Gorman or Dubois has the trajectory to get to Joshua's level over the next 3-4 years is an interesting question. Personally, I don't think Gorman has it. But I do think Dubois will.
Good point on the age, I hadn't taken that into account.If you have a look at some of Joshua's amateur fights when he was closer to Dubios's age, you see someone quite different from the modern Joshua.
Whether either Gorman or Dubois has the trajectory to get to Joshua's level over the next 3-4 years is an interesting question. Personally, I don't think Gorman has it. But I do think Dubois will.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Fittster said:
How do the finance work in boxing? There won't be many people willing to PPV for Fury v Schwarz, so does that mean there are only 4 more opportunities for ESPN to get a return on their investment. If I was giving Fury £80 million I'd want it guaranteed that he fights AJ and Wilder.
There are two main factors which affect the finances. The first is the regular business of building the scale of interest in a fight. The rematch with Wilder was originally estimated to do around 500k PPV buys, if done straight away.
The calculation is to give both Fury and Wilder interim fights, on regular non-PPV platforms. If they both look great, and the networks continue to build Wilder and Fury, they hope the rematch will do over 1 million PPV buys.
And if they are charging maybe $70, $80, or $90 for the PPV, that generates a massive increase in the size of the pot from which to pay the fighters.
Then, if they can also get a fight with Joshua, you can see potentially how the numbers could scale up to the $100m level.
The second aspect is the emergence of the new competitor, DAZN.
The existing networks are prepared to lose money in the short term by signing fighers and overpaying them, in the hope they can strangle DAZN at birth.
If they can do that, they will save themselves hundreds of millions of $ in the long term from the reduced costs of sports rights fees from less competition.
Hence why ESPN and Fox/Showtime are overpaying to sign fighters at the moment as, if you control the fighters, you reduce what your competitor platform can likely earn.
How much control to ESPN have of Fury's opponents. If I'm handing over £80 million I'd want a load of control.
To improve their existing status Fury, Wilder and AJ either they need to be fighting each other or one of the following group.
Whyte
Ortiz
Povetkin
Parker
Pulev
Usky
Hughie Fury (For AJ or Wilder "I smashed your cousin and your next Tyson").
There isn't really enough depth in the HW division for the big 3 to avoid each other for long and the broadcasters to get a return on their investments. Unless ESPN and DAZN start dictating opponents it seems like they will end up giving a large amount of money to 3 HWs who are happy to fight lower level opponents and bank the money.
Fittster said:
But for that business model to work you need to ensure the right fighters come together. It appears that a fight Schwarz is one of the five and I'm not sure it will raise the marketability of Fury much. I wasn't aware of Schwarz before this announcement and I don't think many casual viewers will be rushing to get PPV for it.
How much control to ESPN have of Fury's opponents. If I'm handing over £80 million I'd want a load of control.
To improve their existing status Fury, Wilder and AJ either they need to be fighting each other or one of the following group.
Whyte
Ortiz
Povetkin
Parker
Pulev
Usky
Hughie Fury (For AJ or Wilder "I smashed your cousin and your next Tyson").
There isn't really enough depth in the HW division for the big 3 to avoid each other for long and the broadcasters to get a return on their investments. Unless ESPN and DAZN start dictating opponents it seems like they will end up giving a large amount of money to 3 HWs who are happy to fight lower level opponents and bank the money.
As I said, Schwarz is merely an interim fight to raise Fury's profile. They (ESPN) will build up Schwarz as being the young, unbeaten prospect who is "number 2 in the world" ranking.How much control to ESPN have of Fury's opponents. If I'm handing over £80 million I'd want a load of control.
To improve their existing status Fury, Wilder and AJ either they need to be fighting each other or one of the following group.
Whyte
Ortiz
Povetkin
Parker
Pulev
Usky
Hughie Fury (For AJ or Wilder "I smashed your cousin and your next Tyson").
There isn't really enough depth in the HW division for the big 3 to avoid each other for long and the broadcasters to get a return on their investments. Unless ESPN and DAZN start dictating opponents it seems like they will end up giving a large amount of money to 3 HWs who are happy to fight lower level opponents and bank the money.
The list of fighters you mention would be a bit too risky for what is the purpose of this fight. And after the win against Schwarz, I expect Wilder and Fury will rematch.
Also, the $100m isn't guaranteed to Fury. I would expect it consists of a combination of medium-sized, guaranteed purses plus a big amount of PPV upsides (for those fights which make it to PPV).
And in terms of return on investment, as I said previously, it depends what you consider to be your investment. I would suggest ESPN would look at protecting their current market share of the US sports market, which is far bigger than boxing, as their main investment.
So if they can suffocate a competitor before it builds a decent subscriber base, it will pay dividends on their investment in the long term.
Fittster said:
How much control to ESPN have of Fury's opponents. If I'm handing over £80 million I'd want a load of control.
To improve their existing status Fury, Wilder and AJ either they need to be fighting each other or one of the following group.
Whyte
Ortiz
Povetkin
Parker
Pulev
Usky
Hughie Fury (For AJ or Wilder "I smashed your cousin and your next Tyson").
.......
.
There is one glimmer of hope though.To improve their existing status Fury, Wilder and AJ either they need to be fighting each other or one of the following group.
Whyte
Ortiz
Povetkin
Parker
Pulev
Usky
Hughie Fury (For AJ or Wilder "I smashed your cousin and your next Tyson").
.......
.
Pulev won his fight over weekend, first US fight with ESPN and TopRank.
He is an upcoming mandatory for Joshua (which is probably why Arum signed him and is building him up) and will hopefully also face Fury at some point being on same network.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Amirhussain said:
Anyone watch the ending of the Sam Maxwell fight? Won’t spoil it too much but it was the definition of it isn’t over till it’s over!
This was the card I was watching, *very* good fight.... https://youtu.be/lgoJWOjKIRA
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