The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)

[FredClogs]

andburg said:

Davos123 said:

Another death https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/25/hugo...

Along with how Dave Allen's fight ended, I think this could (rightly) lead to a lot of questions about the ethics of the sport.

https://twitter.com/BoxingHls/status/1152792815820316678 - copy and paste as its an awful video i didnt want to make it a link

so wrong.

Awful.

[Amirhussain]

Anyone read reports about a possible Paqman & Mayweather rematch? I really don’t want that to happen, it’s bad enough they fought way too late the first time....but I can just see the amount of money being too much to turn down.

Did have to laugh at Mayweather claiming Paqmans entire legacy was built off his name. And then extra cringe for playing the race card

[milkround]

MrJuice said:

Don't forget how vocal Eddie Hearn was when Miller was found doping in the lead up to the AJ fight. He was saying things like the doping can give an unfair and which could lead to the death of his fighter and he had no second thoughts about cancelling the bout.

fking snake.

They are all doping. Not one of them is clean.

Think about this logically just for a second. Why every Olympics do we see new WR's being put down? Why do professional rugby players look bigger and more conditioned than bodybuilders a couple of generations ago? Why is is that human evolution improved so so quickly?

I've been a user of anabolic steroids before. I know a moderate amount about them. Trust me there are nearly no athletes who are truly clean.

Wanna know the truth of it... We want juiced athletes. We don't want to see small fat men running slowly at the rugby. We don't want to not see the crushing knock out power of an 18 stone man who has the ability to last 12 rounds. We don't want to see men running plus 10 seconds at the Olympic finals.

Look at how joshua has ''developed' since 'turning pro'. His amateur career included full time training with the olympic team where he was possibly not clean either. Look at how his body has transformed.

It's time we stopped expecting our athletes to be clean and accepted the plain reality. They are all juiced up super humans playing a game hoping not to be caught. Let them openly take the drugs and see the best chemically advanced humans battle it out. They already use the drugs - so lets not lie to the public or to ourselves.

[coolchris]

I can't understand why someone who has already been caught doing would risk it again he voluntarily signed up to the doping programme so why would you take the chance knowing they could come knocking at any moment.The thing is I actually thought whyte looked out of condition a bit loose .

Its hard to agree with let them all take it and see who's the best at the end of the day 2 guys can take it one guys body and performance could shoot through the roof and have a great reaction another guys maybe not such an emphatic improvement so it can never be on an even keel.

[MrJuice]

milkround said:

They are all doping. Not one of them is clean.

Think about this logically just for a second. Why every Olympics do we see new WR's being put down? Why do professional rugby players look bigger and more conditioned than bodybuilders a couple of generations ago? Why is is that human evolution improved so so quickly?

I've been a user of anabolic steroids before. I know a moderate amount about them. Trust me there are nearly no athletes who are truly clean.

Wanna know the truth of it... We want juiced athletes. We don't want to see small fat men running slowly at the rugby. We don't want to not see the crushing knock out power of an 18 stone man who has the ability to last 12 rounds. We don't want to see men running plus 10 seconds at the Olympic finals.

Look at how joshua has ''developed' since 'turning pro'. His amateur career included full time training with the olympic team where he was possibly not clean either. Look at how his body has transformed.

It's time we stopped expecting our athletes to be clean and accepted the plain reality. They are all juiced up super humans playing a game hoping not to be caught. Let them openly take the drugs and see the best chemically advanced humans battle it out. They already use the drugs - so lets not lie to the public or to ourselves.

Of course they do. I am under no illusion about that at all and I don't mind it either.

Quite how did Usain Bolt break WR after world record? Hmm or that swimmer break the 100m butterfly WR by an enormous margin the other day

But. Eddie Hearn said certain things for whatever reason when Miller was shown to be taking drugs. Now the proven drug taking applies to his fighter and he's coming up with "but the fight was cleared by such and such"

Man wants to have his cake and eat it.

[hyphen]

^ username checks out

[hyphen]

hmmm...

Video (1.15 in) https://www.worldboxingnews.net/2019/07/27/eddie-h...

Dillian Whyte: ****ing Hell.
Eddie Hearn: Alright Mate?
DW: ****ing hell in it, Jesus Christ bruv. I haven’t slept at all the last couple of days.
EH: Nor have I, but I didn’t have to fight.
DW: ***** sake.
EH: Mate, that was the miracle of all miracles wasn’t it?
DW: That’s the difference between being a professional.
EH: I had everything, I had a statement for you ready to go. He just phoned me up and was like, we did it, and I was like, oh.
DW: I need to keep my hair for some reason. It’s a ****ing stitch-up. I passed two tests in two days and then one in a million.

Edited by hyphen on Saturday 27th July 15:57

[theboyfold]

It's a massive let down, boxing has been so good of late, and first Miller and now Whyte.

I know it goes on, but sometimes you want to believe it's not...

[Mojooo]

As I understand it, there are all sorts of substances which are not allowed in boxing and these can be accidentally ingested in normal foods. I suspect what is far more riskier is what is in all the supplements and training aids they take.

I have some symphathy because having worked in the food industry, you should not necessarily be 100% sure that there are not things in your foods that are not on the label. Given the levels we are talking about the athletes I spsoe there only needs to be a small amoutn of cross contamination in a factory for there to be an issue.

I appreciate the substances we are taking about are probably not in normal foods and athletes are taking risks by eating supplements which may contain these substances - even though they may or may not be on the ingredients label.


I'd be surprised if Whyte has taken something as blatant as an injected steroid given his history and VADA testing. I would also be surprised is Hearn knew about it or allowed it - lets be honest the guy is minted, does he really need to represent Whyte?

[milkround]

Mojooo said:

As I understand it, there are all sorts of substances which are not allowed in boxing and these can be accidentally ingested in normal foods. I suspect what is far more riskier is what is in all the supplements and training aids they take.

I have some symphathy because having worked in the food industry, you should not necessarily be 100% sure that there are not things in your foods that are not on the label. Given the levels we are talking about the athletes I spsoe there only needs to be a small amoutn of cross contamination in a factory for there to be an issue.

I appreciate the substances we are taking about are probably not in normal foods and athletes are taking risks by eating supplements which may contain these substances - even though they may or may not be on the ingredients label.


I'd be surprised if Whyte has taken something as blatant as an injected steroid given his history and VADA testing. I would also be surprised is Hearn knew about it or allowed it - lets be honest the guy is minted, does he really need to represent Whyte?

He was accused of dropping Dbol or Dianabol. That's an oral steroid. No way it's entered the food chain. And on it's own no way it's taken on it's own. Generally, you'd use at the very least testosterone with it.

It's an old drug. It bulks you up and makes you stronger. And is associated with a bloated not ripped look. I have used it. His puffy look indicates that he has used it. A bit like Deca bloat. He is as guilty as sin.

[Daniel1]

I watched the davis fight.

People mentioning early stoppage and I thought so too at the time. But now all the various camera angles are appearing over instagram it looked like the main punch on the ropes knocked him out on his feet.

That man can hit hard.

[FredClogs]

Mojooo said:

I'd be surprised if Whyte has taken something as blatant as an injected steroid given his history and VADA testing. I would also be surprised is Hearn knew about it or allowed it - lets be honest the guy is minted, does he really need to represent Whyte?

The boxing business has chewed up and spat out bigger, more intelligent and better represented guys than Dillian Whyte.

And make no mistake, Eddie Hearn is a promoter, he doesn't train fighters, he doesn't manage fighters and he doesn't sanction fights. He books venues and sells tickets.

Boxing fans can sometimes lose sight of how small and how little money there is in the professional game, I'll be surprised if Dillian Whyte could call himself a millionaire, he doesn't have the kind of team who are going for chats with Dr Ferrari, he was a Dad at 13 and was running errands for Yardies when he should have been in biology class, he's basically managed by his brother. I'm not suprised at all he's pissed hot.

I am suprised Eddie Hearn knew he was cheating and didn't tell the Rivas team, not how to win friends and influence people. Rivas in all likely hood would have fought anyway, but its a fking corteousy and knowing it would come out it would seem to be common sense.

[Mojooo]

milkround said:

He was accused of dropping Dbol or Dianabol. That's an oral steroid. No way it's entered the food chain. And on it's own no way it's taken on it's own. Generally, you'd use at the very least testosterone with it.

It's an old drug. It bulks you up and makes you stronger. And is associated with a bloated not ripped look. I have used it. His puffy look indicates that he has used it. A bit like Deca bloat. He is as guilty as sin.

Thanks for the insight

Be interesting to see the outcome. He was only slagging AJ off for taking (allegedly) taking drugs the other day.

[milkround]

Mojooo said:

Thanks for the insight

Be interesting to see the outcome. He was only slagging AJ off for taking (allegedly) taking drugs the other day.

I find the choice of drug a bit weird. It's an oral and is not used that much anymore as it's really rather toxic to your liver. Back in the day blokes like Arnie were dropping them down their throats like smarties. However he will work with someone who advises him on cycling and getting stuff out of your system.

Dbol has some advantages which make it more believable. It's got a short half life meaning it's in and out of your system pretty quickly. It will suppress his natural testosterone level massively - but if he was using a TRT level of test it could be useful for putting on mass and improving strength.

AJ clearly uses. I'd bet my life on it. I reckon he has a far more significant doping program. He is using much more expensive drugs and has a better team. Rumors are around he has a TUE for TRT. If so he can use that to maintain test levels whilst he cycles on other compounds. He's also certainly using HGH which is really hard to detect. Which again is more expensive. There are also massive rumours about our anti doping programmes (and we are very happy to knock the Russians). Notice that he also only lost in America... somewhere where he couldn't be as sure about passing the doping tests...

I'm far from an expert on this. I know a bit because I used to use steroids. Potentially I might have made my own simply because I wanted a sterile and properly dosed procuct. I've not used them in years but learnt a fair amount them back in the day. I only used HGH after I was hurt badly in an explosion. The medics were amazed by my recovery rate. And how well it recovered. I think medicine has some stuff to learn the sporting world.

Much of what the public believes about steroids is totally and painfully wrong. People talk about 'roid rage'. You might be more assertive on testosterone, but it wouldn't cause rage. Trenbalone is the only compound which could do that really. It's one of the most powerful compounds and was designed to be used to put lean mass on cattle. I used it and didn't turn into a raging nutter. You'd just be shorter with people. I have a lot to say about steroids but it's not popular to say it. Depression and suicide in young men is profound. And there is some evidence that this is linked to testosterone levels. The NHS TRT policy is atrocious. They use a very long acting compound (one jab every 12 weeks if I remember) which leaves men in a mess. It's also expensive compared to the drugs they should be using. I actually helped a Doctor and former professional rugby player who wrote a paper for a respected medical journal about this stuff, and he agreed with what I had to say.

Edited by milkround on Sunday 28th July 16:29

[baptistsan]

Interested to hear what you have to say on this.
Either here or please do start a thread in the health forum to save taking this one off topic.

[Mojooo]

I presume you dont think much of VADA or other testingthen. From what I hear the athletes can be tested randomy anywhere 8 weeks before a fight - so how can they be confident they would get away with it?

[EddieSteadyGo]

Mojooo said:

I presume you dont think much of VADA or other testingthen. From what I hear the athletes can be tested randomy anywhere 8 weeks before a fight - so how can they be confident they would get away with it?

It must be fairly good as quite a few fighters are now getting caught at the very top level. Below the top level though there isn't much testing of any kind to speak of.

Couple of examples: Thomas Hauser, who broke the story with Dillian Whyte's test result, was describing the WBC's flagship "WBC clean boxing programme".

Apparently, the WBC pay VADA $10,000 per month to administer their testing program. But if you consider the number of fighters enrolled, it comes to $40 / boxer. Realistically the chances of getting tested on this particular program are therefore tiny.

Second point relates to how predictable the testing might be. I would guess there are clues if you are close enough to observe their operating procedures.

For example, when Kell Brook was fighting and in-camp, he liked to base himself at the Ingle gym in the Canary Islands. The strong allegation was that he liked to do this as there was only airport on the island (Fuerteventura IIRC) and he therefore had a way of getting advance notice when the testers were coming to pay him a visit....

ETA : year round testing is what we need, if we want to root it out. Testing in camp just leads to drug taking programs designed around 'in-camp', 'out of camp' periods.

One other thought which occurred to me, and I've not seen mentioned. Whyte was offered the fight as the substitute for Miller, before Andy Ruiz eventually stepped in.

He (Whyte) said he turned it down as he wasn't getting enough money - I wonder though if the real reason was that he wasn't confident in his cycles to suddenly submit himself to VADA testing at such short notice.

Edited by EddieSteadyGo on Sunday 28th July 19:48

[Mojooo]

I though i ehard Hearn say it cost 40k - presumably that means 40k for each or both fighter to be tested - I rpesume that accoutns for people to go to them and send the tests off for testing (I can see why tis not cheap if they are tested multiple times in possibly different locations)

[EddieSteadyGo]

Mojooo said:

I though i ehard Hearn say it cost 40k - presumably that means 40k for each or both fighter to be tested - I rpesume that accoutns for people to go to them and send the tests off for testing (I can see why tis not cheap if they are tested multiple times in possibly different locations)

Hearn says the testing program he insists on for his top-level match-ups is £40k per fighter, which cover the 3 months of the boxer's camp.

But VADA are just the testing organisation. They will do as many, or as few, tests as their client is willing to pay for.

[Mojooo]

My understanding is that the mandatory testing regime is not brilliant so fighters can opt to use VADA as well, which is voluntary but more stringent

I spose the theory is that if you are clean, you will be happy to pay 40k (or whatever) to ensure your opponent is also clean. Essentially you are paying for a commercial service which is better than what the authorities provides.