The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)
Discussion
bolidemichael said:
tuscaneer said:
the guy that mike tyson used as inspiration for all out natiness....
dempsey broke 3 of willards ribs and numerous bones in his face, busted his jaw too..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3BTycNuY44
This is laughable, like a Charlie Chaplin fight. The referee was just there to count, whilst Dempsey barely waits for Willard to get to one knee before whacking him from behind! Willard was beaten to a pulp.dempsey broke 3 of willards ribs and numerous bones in his face, busted his jaw too..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3BTycNuY44
by the time we get to the infamous long count fight between dempsey and gene tunney the whole reason for the controversy was that after dempsey floored tunney he forgot that a new rule had been put in place that asked the fighter who knocked the other guy over to go to a neutral corner... referee dave barry wouldn't start the count until dempsey went to the neutral corner which gave tunney 14 seconds on the deck
bolidemichael said:
tuscaneer said:
here's a guy you may not have even heard of.... sensational boxer who's career was cut short in the run up to his fight with a prime golovkin with a crippling back injury... i thought at that time nobody had a chance with golovkin...except pirog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKD7SvVaQQo
In my binge watching, Sugar Ray Leonard exhibits my favourite style so far... but I'm going to watch more of Pirog, he's like a cobra on legs!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKD7SvVaQQo
tuscaneer said:
oh..... a great shout from amir with gatti/ward trilogy......
if you go back to the 40s the greatest middleweight trilogy of all time.... rocky graziano v tony zale... well worth checking out!
I've caught up with the third - I can see where Stallone got his moves from... Graziano. I've now come across a documentary 'The Final Chapter', that features an interview with both Zale and Graziano together in the studio, which is awesome.if you go back to the 40s the greatest middleweight trilogy of all time.... rocky graziano v tony zale... well worth checking out!
if you are getting into the pure technicians (i'm a nut for that myself) you need to check out a guy called willie pep. one of the greatest featherweights of all time and wizard in the ring.....it was willie pep who achieved the feat of winning a round without throwing a single punch, just clowning the other guy to such a degree he was awarded the round on ring craft.
another guy to google ( and one of my favourite signatures in my collection) is benny leonard....absolute ring craft at its finest.
ThisInJapanese said:
TobyTR said:
tuscaneer said:
one of the maddest heavyweight fights...then punch stats in this fight were off the scale,,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZCHNVj-Ro
iirc, Ike actually lost his marbles after that fight and got put in prison and then a mental institution for a while. Was never the same after. Not surprising given Tua's punches - he was ridiculously heavy-handed and in my opinion the biggest left-hook in boxinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZCHNVj-Ro
bolidemichael said:
I have read some of your comments and passions, with interest.
Could those of you enthusiasts suggest a variety of fights to watch for entertainment and perhaps must-see bouts? I have watched a few, obviously, but mainly the modern popular ones.
tell you who else to research.....Could those of you enthusiasts suggest a variety of fights to watch for entertainment and perhaps must-see bouts? I have watched a few, obviously, but mainly the modern popular ones.
barney ross
mickey walker
henry armstrong
all phenomenal fighters for different reasons....
a lot of the fun for me all those years ago (i used to buy A LOT of boxing books!!) was working backwards...
for example.... i discovered and researched rocky marciano because my grandfather had seen him fight live and was obsessed... as i started hoovering up documentaries and books i learned that marciano idolised jack dempsey and based his swarming style on him...so i started researching dempsey and the surrounding fighters in the 20s.... i learned that his name wasn't Jack, it was william.. he took his name from the great middlweight champ jack "the nonpariel" dempsey from the end of the 1800s. as you learn abouth these different guys and who they fought/were influenced by you really get a deep understanding of the fabric and depth of the sport.
some of the stuff you find out is incredible. gentleman jim corbett was a scientific boxer rather than fighter, a style influenced by the australian trainer called larry foley. larry learned the scientific style from an english guy called jem mace "the father of modern boxing"
jem mace was one of the very last great bare knucklers from norfolk but travelled the world in the mid 1800s and actually settled in liverpool a few miles away from me. he was buried in an unmarked grave in anfield cemetary over 100 years ago and its only a few years ago that the ex boxers association of liverpool funded a gravestone for him.
mace started the "olympic festival" on the outskirts of the city and this eventually caused the rebirth of the ancient greek olympics into the modern olympics as we know them today.
as i kept delving backwards from reading newspaper articles and so on from the times i managed to research the entire history of the "modern" era back to james figg who is accepted as the first bare knuckle champion of the modern era..his reign began in 1719...
as you can imagine, signatures from this era are incredibly rare as most of them were actually illiterate, never mind the 300 odd years that have elapsed since. the oldest signature i've got is that of john gully who was bare knuckle champion of england in 1807...he became an mp and i have a signed envelope from 1833..
from youtube to acquiring new books, old books and rare books (i have the 3 volumes of pugilistica from the 1800s intact first edition.. my crown jewel of my boxing books.... you can spend years learning about all this stuff... just writing these few lines to you has made me smile reliving a fantastic time of discovery and collecting going back 25 years.... happy hunting pal!
TobyTR said:
That was one of the best videos I've seen on the internet. His speed, power, footwork, agility... that is pure god-given talent right there. A one-offI love how the music syncs perfectly with his fights too. Watching that once just isn't enough. Mesmerising.
ThanksNas didn't fight nobodies, he just made them look like nobodies. You don't win multiple world titles beating bums.
Edited by A44RON on Friday 28th February 08:26
when naz went to new york and beat kevin kelly that was superb....
when you watch the documentary "the little prince, the big fight" in the run up to the barrera fight...mentally he was gone... flying to mexico for new goat skin gloves then deciding he didn't like them so sent a private jet to get another pair right before the fight. he lost that fight before the first bell and his ego wouldn't allow a defeat like that to go without deep mental scars. his fight against manuel calvo after barrera stunk the place out with punters walking out before the end....
naz's downfall was when he left brendan ingle because he was trying to save money...... same way tyson f
ked himself by allowing don king to prize him away from bill cayton, jimmy jacobs and kevin rooney.....if he had stayed put who knows how it would have played out...
one thing is for sure had they both stayed with the trainers who nurtured them along the loss to barrera and the loss to douglas probably wouldn't have happened.
when you watch the documentary "the little prince, the big fight" in the run up to the barrera fight...mentally he was gone... flying to mexico for new goat skin gloves then deciding he didn't like them so sent a private jet to get another pair right before the fight. he lost that fight before the first bell and his ego wouldn't allow a defeat like that to go without deep mental scars. his fight against manuel calvo after barrera stunk the place out with punters walking out before the end....
naz's downfall was when he left brendan ingle because he was trying to save money...... same way tyson f
ked himself by allowing don king to prize him away from bill cayton, jimmy jacobs and kevin rooney.....if he had stayed put who knows how it would have played out...one thing is for sure had they both stayed with the trainers who nurtured them along the loss to barrera and the loss to douglas probably wouldn't have happened.
tuscaneer said:
bolidemichael said:
tuscaneer said:
here's a guy you may not have even heard of.... sensational boxer who's career was cut short in the run up to his fight with a prime golovkin with a crippling back injury... i thought at that time nobody had a chance with golovkin...except pirog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKD7SvVaQQo
In my binge watching, Sugar Ray Leonard exhibits my favourite style so far... but I'm going to watch more of Pirog, he's like a cobra on legs!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKD7SvVaQQo
tuscaneer said:
oh..... a great shout from amir with gatti/ward trilogy......
if you go back to the 40s the greatest middleweight trilogy of all time.... rocky graziano v tony zale... well worth checking out!
I've caught up with the third - I can see where Stallone got his moves from... Graziano. I've now come across a documentary 'The Final Chapter', that features an interview with both Zale and Graziano together in the studio, which is awesome.if you go back to the 40s the greatest middleweight trilogy of all time.... rocky graziano v tony zale... well worth checking out!
if you are getting into the pure technicians (i'm a nut for that myself) you need to check out a guy called willie pep. one of the greatest featherweights of all time and wizard in the ring.....it was willie pep who achieved the feat of winning a round without throwing a single punch, just clowning the other guy to such a degree he was awarded the round on ring craft.
another guy to google ( and one of my favourite signatures in my collection) is benny leonard....absolute ring craft at its finest.
tuscaneer said:
tell you who else to research.....
barney ross
mickey walker
henry armstrong
all phenomenal fighters for different reasons....
a lot of the fun for me all those years ago (i used to buy A LOT of boxing books!!) was working backwards...
for example.... i discovered and researched rocky marciano because my grandfather had seen him fight live and was obsessed... as i started hoovering up documentaries and books i learned that marciano idolised jack dempsey and based his swarming style on him...so i started researching dempsey and the surrounding fighters in the 20s.... i learned that his name wasn't Jack, it was william.. he took his name from the great middlweight champ jack "the nonpariel" dempsey from the end of the 1800s. as you learn abouth these different guys and who they fought/were influenced by you really get a deep understanding of the fabric and depth of the sport.
some of the stuff you find out is incredible. gentleman jim corbett was a scientific boxer rather than fighter, a style influenced by the australian trainer called larry foley. larry learned the scientific style from an english guy called jem mace "the father of modern boxing"
jem mace was one of the very last great bare knucklers from norfolk but travelled the world in the mid 1800s and actually settled in liverpool a few miles away from me. he was buried in an unmarked grave in anfield cemetary over 100 years ago and its only a few years ago that the ex boxers association of liverpool funded a gravestone for him.
mace started the "olympic festival" on the outskirts of the city and this eventually caused the rebirth of the ancient greek olympics into the modern olympics as we know them today.
as i kept delving backwards from reading newspaper articles and so on from the times i managed to research the entire history of the "modern" era back to james figg who is accepted as the first bare knuckle champion of the modern era..his reign began in 1719...
as you can imagine, signatures from this era are incredibly rare as most of them were actually illiterate, never mind the 300 odd years that have elapsed since. the oldest signature i've got is that of john gully who was bare knuckle champion of england in 1807...he became an mp and i have a signed envelope from 1833..
from youtube to acquiring new books, old books and rare books (i have the 3 volumes of pugilistica from the 1800s intact first edition.. my crown jewel of my boxing books.... you can spend years learning about all this stuff... just writing these few lines to you has made me smile reliving a fantastic time of discovery and collecting going back 25 years.... happy hunting pal!
Fantastic post, thank you.barney ross
mickey walker
henry armstrong
all phenomenal fighters for different reasons....
a lot of the fun for me all those years ago (i used to buy A LOT of boxing books!!) was working backwards...
for example.... i discovered and researched rocky marciano because my grandfather had seen him fight live and was obsessed... as i started hoovering up documentaries and books i learned that marciano idolised jack dempsey and based his swarming style on him...so i started researching dempsey and the surrounding fighters in the 20s.... i learned that his name wasn't Jack, it was william.. he took his name from the great middlweight champ jack "the nonpariel" dempsey from the end of the 1800s. as you learn abouth these different guys and who they fought/were influenced by you really get a deep understanding of the fabric and depth of the sport.
some of the stuff you find out is incredible. gentleman jim corbett was a scientific boxer rather than fighter, a style influenced by the australian trainer called larry foley. larry learned the scientific style from an english guy called jem mace "the father of modern boxing"
jem mace was one of the very last great bare knucklers from norfolk but travelled the world in the mid 1800s and actually settled in liverpool a few miles away from me. he was buried in an unmarked grave in anfield cemetary over 100 years ago and its only a few years ago that the ex boxers association of liverpool funded a gravestone for him.
mace started the "olympic festival" on the outskirts of the city and this eventually caused the rebirth of the ancient greek olympics into the modern olympics as we know them today.
as i kept delving backwards from reading newspaper articles and so on from the times i managed to research the entire history of the "modern" era back to james figg who is accepted as the first bare knuckle champion of the modern era..his reign began in 1719...
as you can imagine, signatures from this era are incredibly rare as most of them were actually illiterate, never mind the 300 odd years that have elapsed since. the oldest signature i've got is that of john gully who was bare knuckle champion of england in 1807...he became an mp and i have a signed envelope from 1833..
from youtube to acquiring new books, old books and rare books (i have the 3 volumes of pugilistica from the 1800s intact first edition.. my crown jewel of my boxing books.... you can spend years learning about all this stuff... just writing these few lines to you has made me smile reliving a fantastic time of discovery and collecting going back 25 years.... happy hunting pal!
Nas was so exciting to watch - massive punches thrown from crazy angles, half the time with him seemingly completely off balance. The pubs were crammed full when one of his fights was on.
He did have a reputation of being a complete when I was pubbing and clubbing in Sheffield at the time.
He did have a reputation of being a complete
when I was pubbing and clubbing in Sheffield at the time. dirty boy said:
tuscaneer said:
bolidemichael said:
tuscaneer said:
here's a guy you may not have even heard of.... sensational boxer who's career was cut short in the run up to his fight with a prime golovkin with a crippling back injury... i thought at that time nobody had a chance with golovkin...except pirog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKD7SvVaQQo
In my binge watching, Sugar Ray Leonard exhibits my favourite style so far... but I'm going to watch more of Pirog, he's like a cobra on legs!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKD7SvVaQQo
tuscaneer said:
oh..... a great shout from amir with gatti/ward trilogy......
if you go back to the 40s the greatest middleweight trilogy of all time.... rocky graziano v tony zale... well worth checking out!
I've caught up with the third - I can see where Stallone got his moves from... Graziano. I've now come across a documentary 'The Final Chapter', that features an interview with both Zale and Graziano together in the studio, which is awesome.if you go back to the 40s the greatest middleweight trilogy of all time.... rocky graziano v tony zale... well worth checking out!
if you are getting into the pure technicians (i'm a nut for that myself) you need to check out a guy called willie pep. one of the greatest featherweights of all time and wizard in the ring.....it was willie pep who achieved the feat of winning a round without throwing a single punch, just clowning the other guy to such a degree he was awarded the round on ring craft.
another guy to google ( and one of my favourite signatures in my collection) is benny leonard....absolute ring craft at its finest.
king incredible.. if you look at his record he has got to be the #1 featherweight of all time....his moniker of "will o the wisp" was a nod to another defensive genius from earlier times... a guy called young griffo from australia.... he was from the larry foley school i talked about earlier...
anyway, this old guy i know who was a butcher by trade told me stories that his dad had passed to him from his time as a pro in new york in the 1920s....
there was an old guy who was pretty destitute who hung around the bars and what not... this old fella had a party piece that was to remove the handkerchief from his pocket, put it on the floor and place one foot on the handkerchief and invite people to try to hit him while he couldn't move his front foot off the floor....nobody ever did by all accounts
that guy was young griffo well into his 50s by the early 1920s....... he died destitute at only 58 years old a few years later but apparently old john mallon never saw anybody before or since perform such defensive mastery...
bolidemichael said:
That's an interesting lineage right there tuscaneer, thanks for sharing. I've been surprised by this thread, in that a friendly request for suggestions hasn't been 'rewarded' in the usual PH way of scoffing and derision!
no worries pal,for 12 years or more this thread has been populated by even handed folk....most boxing forums i find are full of idiots with agendas and it's pathetic, uneducated drivel for the most part...
don't get me wrong, every time you get a big fight you do get some rather colourful characters pop in here with some, well, questionable opinions
and occasionally you do get the odd loon (if you search up posts from a guy called swordman from a few years ago you'll get a few giggles) but the vast majority of people in here are well versed in the sweet science and those who are more recent to the sport are welcomed with open arms.. i love talking about the old days so when you were asking for pointers to old stuff to brush up on i was made up
tuscaneer said:
when naz went to new york and beat kevin kelly that was superb....
Coincidentally I watched this Sky piece on it last week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5biML1-tZEcFor me, as a casual watcher, Naz was unbelievable. You don't see many fighters who leave their opponents utterly bewildered.
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