The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)
Discussion
Saweep said:
forrestgrump said:
g4ry13 said:
Bright Halo said:
I don’t think Derek Chisora could have done any better than he did.
That was the best condition I have ever seen him. Unfortunately he is just too slow. Not sure Usyk will beat either Joshua or Fury though.
Joshua will catch him as he has longer reach and greater boxing ability than Chisora. Fury has that great heigh, fast hands, skill and mr tickle arms so probably too much for Usyk to overcome.
Usky gets knocked out by any decent heavyweight. He wobbled every time Chisora landed on him and wouldn't last against someone who was more consistent.That was the best condition I have ever seen him. Unfortunately he is just too slow. Not sure Usyk will beat either Joshua or Fury though.
Joshua will catch him as he has longer reach and greater boxing ability than Chisora. Fury has that great heigh, fast hands, skill and mr tickle arms so probably too much for Usyk to overcome.
THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
hyphen said:
Important to remember that whilst Chisora was bigger than Usyk, Usyk is taller and had a reach advantage.
So based on last nights performance, you would have to say both Fury and AJ being not only bigger, but also taller, would be favourites against Usyk.
Let's be honest - Usyk doesn't have a chance against Fury or AJ, apart from a lucky punch, which he won't get as he doesn't ever take a risk. So he won't get a KO and he won't get a points decision as he doesn't bring any money to the table.So based on last nights performance, you would have to say both Fury and AJ being not only bigger, but also taller, would be favourites against Usyk.
Usyk just has a boring, risk-adverse approach. Spinning off left and right and pot-shotting shows nice technique. But he doesn't have the necessary aggression or spitefulness to be an interesting heavyweight fighter. And his power hasn't improved with the move to heavyweight.
Honestly, I think he wants a decent payday and will retire.
If we look at Gervonta Davis or Naoya Inoue's fights last night, they were proper box office. Taking risks, planting their feet, spiteful and powerful. That is how to build a fan base.
biggbn said:
Agreed, I think he was shocked initially how hard del hit him but he soon adapted. I remember Henry Cooper quipped about Holyfield 'if you're good enough, you're big enough ' and whilst I do agree with that to an extent, the heavyweights are SO big im not sure it applies...and I'm not sure Usyk is good enough either, I feel he was somewhat exposed last night. He clearly won but fought Derek's fight and did not look comfortable doing so. If a plodding clubber like Del can hit him so often, and im a huge fan of Derek's, what will an elite heavy do to him?
THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
I think AJ is pretty delicate it would be an interesting match up with him and Usyk. I don't think Usyk will dominate the heavyweight division but I think he upset AJ and maybe eventually get a shot at being bounced around the ring by Fury at some stage. Pulev might come up and then there is Joyce/Dubois there's a lot going on just with UK fighters. Fury is way out there at the top but the competition among everyone else is pretty interesting. THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
fridaypassion said:
biggbn said:
Agreed, I think he was shocked initially how hard del hit him but he soon adapted. I remember Henry Cooper quipped about Holyfield 'if you're good enough, you're big enough ' and whilst I do agree with that to an extent, the heavyweights are SO big im not sure it applies...and I'm not sure Usyk is good enough either, I feel he was somewhat exposed last night. He clearly won but fought Derek's fight and did not look comfortable doing so. If a plodding clubber like Del can hit him so often, and im a huge fan of Derek's, what will an elite heavy do to him?
THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
I think AJ is pretty delicate it would be an interesting match up with him and Usyk. I don't think Usyk will dominate the heavyweight division but I think he upset AJ and maybe eventually get a shot at being bounced around the ring by Fury at some stage. Pulev might come up and then there is Joyce/Dubois there's a lot going on just with UK fighters. Fury is way out there at the top but the competition among everyone else is pretty interesting. THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
biggbn said:
fridaypassion said:
biggbn said:
Agreed, I think he was shocked initially how hard del hit him but he soon adapted. I remember Henry Cooper quipped about Holyfield 'if you're good enough, you're big enough ' and whilst I do agree with that to an extent, the heavyweights are SO big im not sure it applies...and I'm not sure Usyk is good enough either, I feel he was somewhat exposed last night. He clearly won but fought Derek's fight and did not look comfortable doing so. If a plodding clubber like Del can hit him so often, and im a huge fan of Derek's, what will an elite heavy do to him?
THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
I think AJ is pretty delicate it would be an interesting match up with him and Usyk. I don't think Usyk will dominate the heavyweight division but I think he upset AJ and maybe eventually get a shot at being bounced around the ring by Fury at some stage. Pulev might come up and then there is Joyce/Dubois there's a lot going on just with UK fighters. Fury is way out there at the top but the competition among everyone else is pretty interesting. THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
However, I can't seem him doing anything other than dispatching Usyk with relative ease. He's just too big and much younger and better conditioned than old Del. Usyk didn't really hurt Del at all and that has to be a worry going forward for him.
Usyk is the hipster's heavyweight imho. I saw little last night that had me sitting up in my seat.
I reckon he will bounce around in the second tier and maybe pick up the odd belt in a few years time.
Wilder would KO him I reckon too. Another too big, too fast heavy with too much power.
Saweep said:
biggbn said:
fridaypassion said:
biggbn said:
Agreed, I think he was shocked initially how hard del hit him but he soon adapted. I remember Henry Cooper quipped about Holyfield 'if you're good enough, you're big enough ' and whilst I do agree with that to an extent, the heavyweights are SO big im not sure it applies...and I'm not sure Usyk is good enough either, I feel he was somewhat exposed last night. He clearly won but fought Derek's fight and did not look comfortable doing so. If a plodding clubber like Del can hit him so often, and im a huge fan of Derek's, what will an elite heavy do to him?
THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
I think AJ is pretty delicate it would be an interesting match up with him and Usyk. I don't think Usyk will dominate the heavyweight division but I think he upset AJ and maybe eventually get a shot at being bounced around the ring by Fury at some stage. Pulev might come up and then there is Joyce/Dubois there's a lot going on just with UK fighters. Fury is way out there at the top but the competition among everyone else is pretty interesting. THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
However, I can't seem him doing anything other than dispatching Usyk with relative ease. He's just too big and much younger and better conditioned than old Del. Usyk didn't really hurt Del at all and that has to be a worry going forward for him.
Usyk is the hipster's heavyweight imho. I saw little last night that had me sitting up in my seat.
I reckon he will bounce around in the second tier and maybe pick up the odd belt in a few years time.
Wilder would KO him I reckon too. Another too big, too fast heavy with too much power.
biggbn said:
Saweep said:
forrestgrump said:
g4ry13 said:
Bright Halo said:
I don’t think Derek Chisora could have done any better than he did.
That was the best condition I have ever seen him. Unfortunately he is just too slow. Not sure Usyk will beat either Joshua or Fury though.
Joshua will catch him as he has longer reach and greater boxing ability than Chisora. Fury has that great heigh, fast hands, skill and mr tickle arms so probably too much for Usyk to overcome.
Usky gets knocked out by any decent heavyweight. He wobbled every time Chisora landed on him and wouldn't last against someone who was more consistent.That was the best condition I have ever seen him. Unfortunately he is just too slow. Not sure Usyk will beat either Joshua or Fury though.
Joshua will catch him as he has longer reach and greater boxing ability than Chisora. Fury has that great heigh, fast hands, skill and mr tickle arms so probably too much for Usyk to overcome.
THAT said. I think he matches well with AJ and give him a huge chance against him, styles making fights and all that. AJ does not use his engine the way del does and is not as good a boxer as Usyk. He might be chasing smoke for long periods because he will allow Usyk the space to do what he does.
So i don't see how usyk has a big chance against AJ.
What we watched last night was called boxing not knockouting
KOs are of course exciting but far from essential to win comfortably, which Usyk did.
Usyk was rusty, Del was fitter than I've seen him for a decade and it was still an easy night's work. I'd really like to hear anyone claim that there's a better heavyweight boxer out there than Usyk apart from Fury. He is leagues ahead of everyone else.
So to punch power. Anyone know Ali's and Mayweather's KO percentages. Clue - a long way from special. Usyk doesn't need to be able to knock out a big heavyweight with one shot, he needs to be able to hurt and discourage him and he did that to Del in the seventh. There's no question in my mind that he can stop any of the top heavyweights with an accumulation of punches. He will out-move all of them bar Fury and the interesting thing there is that Fury's size advantage might such that it's TOO much.
Thing is, he doesn't need to KO people. Those people that scored 5 rounds to Derek don't know how to score. Chasing someone round the ring isn't points scoring aggression. I watched the fight again and didn't see one slomo clean shot landed by Del. I saw a dozen or more landed by Usyk.
The criticism that he is too defensive is unfair. Have people seen what he did to Joyce and Bellew? Beat them up basically. He's a counter puncher with limited exposure to the big guys. Let's see where he is in 18-24 months. I predict he'll have beaten AJ and Wilder by then.
KOs are of course exciting but far from essential to win comfortably, which Usyk did.
Usyk was rusty, Del was fitter than I've seen him for a decade and it was still an easy night's work. I'd really like to hear anyone claim that there's a better heavyweight boxer out there than Usyk apart from Fury. He is leagues ahead of everyone else.
So to punch power. Anyone know Ali's and Mayweather's KO percentages. Clue - a long way from special. Usyk doesn't need to be able to knock out a big heavyweight with one shot, he needs to be able to hurt and discourage him and he did that to Del in the seventh. There's no question in my mind that he can stop any of the top heavyweights with an accumulation of punches. He will out-move all of them bar Fury and the interesting thing there is that Fury's size advantage might such that it's TOO much.
Thing is, he doesn't need to KO people. Those people that scored 5 rounds to Derek don't know how to score. Chasing someone round the ring isn't points scoring aggression. I watched the fight again and didn't see one slomo clean shot landed by Del. I saw a dozen or more landed by Usyk.
The criticism that he is too defensive is unfair. Have people seen what he did to Joyce and Bellew? Beat them up basically. He's a counter puncher with limited exposure to the big guys. Let's see where he is in 18-24 months. I predict he'll have beaten AJ and Wilder by then.
Taylor James said:
What we watched last night was called boxing not knockouting
KOs are of course exciting but far from essential to win comfortably, which Usyk did.
This 110%!KOs are of course exciting but far from essential to win comfortably, which Usyk did.
I think people often forget that boxing is a points based sport of skill and sometimes outwardly flat looking fights can be really entertaining for people interested in technique. Fighting on the inside where referees allow it are a great example. Boxers that are in and out peppering the opponent with point scoring shots are going to win just like Usyk did. It's this reason I think he would do well with AJ. There's a lot of AJ to hit and he see stars when he gets hit very quickly. He's slow as well. It would be an interesting match up which will probably happen as Hearn will probably think its anther big fight that protects AJ from the impending battering he will eventually get from Fury
Edited by fridaypassion on Monday 2nd November 07:23
JuniorD said:
What think ye of Wilders accusations re Fury and tampered gloves?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BronzeBomber/status/132...
This is quite interesting. I think I'm in the minority when I'm of the opinion that there was definitely something fishy about the glove. The way it bent was totally unnatural. https://mobile.twitter.com/BronzeBomber/status/132...
However, to come out now after the rematch expired is definitely a duck. He clearly doesn't want the smoke.
Taylor James said:
What we watched last night was called boxing not knockouting
KOs are of course exciting but far from essential to win comfortably, which Usyk did.
Usyk was rusty, Del was fitter than I've seen him for a decade and it was still an easy night's work. I'd really like to hear anyone claim that there's a better heavyweight boxer out there than Usyk apart from Fury. He is leagues ahead of everyone else.
So to punch power. Anyone know Ali's and Mayweather's KO percentages. Clue - a long way from special. Usyk doesn't need to be able to knock out a big heavyweight with one shot, he needs to be able to hurt and discourage him and he did that to Del in the seventh. There's no question in my mind that he can stop any of the top heavyweights with an accumulation of punches. He will out-move all of them bar Fury and the interesting thing there is that Fury's size advantage might such that it's TOO much.
Thing is, he doesn't need to KO people. Those people that scored 5 rounds to Derek don't know how to score. Chasing someone round the ring isn't points scoring aggression. I watched the fight again and didn't see one slomo clean shot landed by Del. I saw a dozen or more landed by Usyk.
The criticism that he is too defensive is unfair. Have people seen what he did to Joyce and Bellew? Beat them up basically. He's a counter puncher with limited exposure to the big guys. Let's see where he is in 18-24 months. I predict he'll have beaten AJ and Wilder by then.
I agree in the main, however would counter that Usyk did not look comfortable, and Chisora ain't Joe Frazier. I think I know boxing and I gave Del four of the rounds i saw, so can perhaps understand how some had it closer than that. To put it into perspective, Floyd was perhaps the consumate exponent of a mobile boxing counter puncher, and he was so good at it, he rarely got hit or looked out of his depth. Usyk looked troubled at times, not stunned, just troubled, at how much work he was having to put in to keep 'the wardrobe' from falling on him. As you say relentless pressure doesn't win a round, but neither does constant vack peddaling and not throwing enough counters. See Hughie v Parker for reference, although this fight was nowhere near that level of non engagement. KOs are of course exciting but far from essential to win comfortably, which Usyk did.
Usyk was rusty, Del was fitter than I've seen him for a decade and it was still an easy night's work. I'd really like to hear anyone claim that there's a better heavyweight boxer out there than Usyk apart from Fury. He is leagues ahead of everyone else.
So to punch power. Anyone know Ali's and Mayweather's KO percentages. Clue - a long way from special. Usyk doesn't need to be able to knock out a big heavyweight with one shot, he needs to be able to hurt and discourage him and he did that to Del in the seventh. There's no question in my mind that he can stop any of the top heavyweights with an accumulation of punches. He will out-move all of them bar Fury and the interesting thing there is that Fury's size advantage might such that it's TOO much.
Thing is, he doesn't need to KO people. Those people that scored 5 rounds to Derek don't know how to score. Chasing someone round the ring isn't points scoring aggression. I watched the fight again and didn't see one slomo clean shot landed by Del. I saw a dozen or more landed by Usyk.
The criticism that he is too defensive is unfair. Have people seen what he did to Joyce and Bellew? Beat them up basically. He's a counter puncher with limited exposure to the big guys. Let's see where he is in 18-24 months. I predict he'll have beaten AJ and Wilder by then.
This is where we agree, AJ will not, cannot exert that kind of pressure and neither can Wilder without leaving himself open to those sublime counters. I genuinely believe Chisora style and size was just wrong for Usyk, in that it didn't let him showcase his attributes, but AJ and Wilder are made for him and he will knock both out...now, there's a bold prediction!
Saweep said:
I'm no Joshua fan; I think he's seriously over-rated and robotic, lacking head movement and footwork of a true great.
However, I can't seem him doing anything other than dispatching Usyk with relative ease. He's just too big and much younger and better conditioned than old Del. Usyk didn't really hurt Del at all and that has to be a worry going forward for him.
Usyk is the hipster's heavyweight imho. I saw little last night that had me sitting up in my seat.
I reckon he will bounce around in the second tier and maybe pick up the odd belt in a few years time.
Wilder would KO him I reckon too. Another too big, too fast heavy with too much power.
reports at the time a few years back (reports from david williams who was wlad's camp manager) were less than flattering about how wilder coped sparring a novice pro cruiserweight called usyk....stood him on his head by all accounts..However, I can't seem him doing anything other than dispatching Usyk with relative ease. He's just too big and much younger and better conditioned than old Del. Usyk didn't really hurt Del at all and that has to be a worry going forward for him.
Usyk is the hipster's heavyweight imho. I saw little last night that had me sitting up in my seat.
I reckon he will bounce around in the second tier and maybe pick up the odd belt in a few years time.
Wilder would KO him I reckon too. Another too big, too fast heavy with too much power.
hyphen said:
just got onto that 
he is still fuming he never got that rematch...
Quite enjoyed this American fan's half hour demolition of Wilder and his fans following Wilder's comments this weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUXvuQe3-lo
tuscaneer said:
reports at the time a few years back (reports from david williams who was wlad's camp manager) were less than flattering about how wilder coped sparring a novice pro cruiserweight called usyk....stood him on his head by all accounts..
This is one of the interesting oddities about boxing most of the fighters have already fought each other in sparring behind closed f doors. Might explain why some fights are never made that you would think should be. Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff