The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)

The **BOXING** thread (Vol 3)

Author
Discussion

tuscaneer

7,200 posts

189 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
Taylor James said:
I'm really looking forward to seeing how Saunders does. As has been said, he won't stand in front of Canelo to be target practice. He isn't going to freeze either. I wonder if we may see some Fury like craziness to try and unsettle the Canelo camp but my concern is the same with all Canelo fights now. You would have to ko him to get the decision draw
fixed that for you there tigerbiggrin

Taylor James

3,111 posts

25 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
beer
tuscaneer said:
Taylor James said:
I'm really looking forward to seeing how Saunders does. As has been said, he won't stand in front of Canelo to be target practice. He isn't going to freeze either. I wonder if we may see some Fury like craziness to try and unsettle the Canelo camp but my concern is the same with all Canelo fights now. You would have to ko him to get the decision draw
fixed that for you there tigerbiggrin
beer

Schermerhorn

3,987 posts

153 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
Canelo's recent success has come from slowing the pace down to his own tempo (Kovalev, Smith and the punching bag) and countering his opponent and closing the distance so they have no leverage and are easy to read from close up.
Canelo then fights in spurts which are eye catching and by the time his opponent fights back he is out of the way or they can only throw a certain combination which is tailor made for his defence (think Daniel Jacobs). His evolution has been remarkable but in my opinion it's because he still had recurring stamina issues so his style modification has been designed to overcome that. His power is still the same from 160lb (I don't believe you can gain more power, no matter how many steroids or weights you pump) but his superior technique is enough to capitalise.

It's only GGG that has pressured him and made him uncomfortable. Every other fight has been slowed down to fight at Canelo's pace and once you dictate the tempo and wait for your opponent to open up from a less than optimal stance and position they're easy to exploit.

Saunders on the other hand is not someone who stands in front of you; he is a southpaw who has excellent footwork and has excellent angles.

Canelo would have to time him with overhand counters, pin him down or fight in enough prolonged eye catching spurts to get the better of him. It's probably his hardest fight in years - providing a BJS of sound mindset turns up.

I've ignored the IFLTV video because that's just typical BJS trolling people and playing (very transparent) mind games.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 15:37


Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 17:24

hyphen

19,561 posts

54 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
Saunders biggest issue is his ring rust. He fought in Dec 2019 and then didn't fight again until Dec 2020, and as he admitted, he wasn't that excited for it to train as he could have.

Fury said a few weeks ago that he thought Saunders needed two tuneup fights before Canelo.

Saunders better get camp and the sparring right.

Edited by hyphen on Monday 1st March 16:01

andburg

4,588 posts

133 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Saunders biggest issue is his ring rust. He fought in Dec 2019 and then didn't fight again until Dec 2020, and as he admitted, he wasn't that excited for it to train as he could have.

Fury said a few weeks ago that he though Saunders needed two tuneup fights before Canelo.

Saunders better get camp and the sparring right.
Given he struggles with motivation it could go 2 ways, he has a huge opportunity and that should motivate him or hes has a huge payday and he doesnt really need to train too hard to pick it up and walk away.

Schermerhorn

3,987 posts

153 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
andburg said:
hyphen said:
Saunders biggest issue is his ring rust. He fought in Dec 2019 and then didn't fight again until Dec 2020, and as he admitted, he wasn't that excited for it to train as he could have.

Fury said a few weeks ago that he though Saunders needed two tuneup fights before Canelo.

Saunders better get camp and the sparring right.
Given he struggles with motivation it could go 2 ways, he has a huge opportunity and that should motivate him or hes has a huge payday and he doesnt really need to train too hard to pick it up and walk away.
If he performs like a bum, his fellow gypsies would ex-communicate him for embarrassing them.

Pugaris

241 posts

8 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
Canelo's recent success has come from slowing the pace down to his own tempo (Kovalev, Smith and the punching bag) and countering his opponent and closing the distance so they have no leverage and are easy to read from close up.
Canelo then fights in spurts which are eye catching and by the time his opponent fights back he is out of the way or they can only throw a certain combination which is tailor made for his defence (think Daniel Jacobs). His evolution has been remarkable but in my opinion it's because he still had recurring stamina issues so his style modification has been designed to overcome that.

It's only GGG that has pressured him and made him comfortable. Every other fight has been slowed down to fight at Canelo's pace and once you dictate the tempo and wait for your opponent to open up from a less than optimal stance and position they're easy to exploit.

Saunders on the other hand is not someone who stands in front of you; he is a southpaw who has excellent footwork and has excellent angles.

Canelo would have to time him with overhand counters, pin him down or fight in enough prolonged eye catching spurts to get the better of him. It's probably his hardest fight in years - providing a BJS of sound mindset turns up.

I've ignored the IFLTV video because that's just typical BJS trolling people and playing (very transparent) mind games.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 15:37
Great analysis, I'd also add that Canelo has focussed heavily on working the body with his last few opponents which slows them down. He'll have a much harder time doing that against BJS who's both smaller and faster-footed than Smith, Kovalev or Yildrim

biggbn

9,630 posts

184 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
Pugaris said:
Schermerhorn said:
Canelo's recent success has come from slowing the pace down to his own tempo (Kovalev, Smith and the punching bag) and countering his opponent and closing the distance so they have no leverage and are easy to read from close up.
Canelo then fights in spurts which are eye catching and by the time his opponent fights back he is out of the way or they can only throw a certain combination which is tailor made for his defence (think Daniel Jacobs). His evolution has been remarkable but in my opinion it's because he still had recurring stamina issues so his style modification has been designed to overcome that.

It's only GGG that has pressured him and made him comfortable. Every other fight has been slowed down to fight at Canelo's pace and once you dictate the tempo and wait for your opponent to open up from a less than optimal stance and position they're easy to exploit.

Saunders on the other hand is not someone who stands in front of you; he is a southpaw who has excellent footwork and has excellent angles.

Canelo would have to time him with overhand counters, pin him down or fight in enough prolonged eye catching spurts to get the better of him. It's probably his hardest fight in years - providing a BJS of sound mindset turns up.

I've ignored the IFLTV video because that's just typical BJS trolling people and playing (very transparent) mind games.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 15:37
Great analysis, I'd also add that Canelo has focussed heavily on working the body with his last few opponents which slows them down. He'll have a much harder time doing that against BJS who's both smaller and faster-footed than Smith, Kovalev or Yildrim
And he has a habit of leaving himself open to counters when he launches the venomous body shots...

Schermerhorn

3,987 posts

153 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Pugaris said:
Schermerhorn said:
Canelo's recent success has come from slowing the pace down to his own tempo (Kovalev, Smith and the punching bag) and countering his opponent and closing the distance so they have no leverage and are easy to read from close up.
Canelo then fights in spurts which are eye catching and by the time his opponent fights back he is out of the way or they can only throw a certain combination which is tailor made for his defence (think Daniel Jacobs). His evolution has been remarkable but in my opinion it's because he still had recurring stamina issues so his style modification has been designed to overcome that.

It's only GGG that has pressured him and made him comfortable. Every other fight has been slowed down to fight at Canelo's pace and once you dictate the tempo and wait for your opponent to open up from a less than optimal stance and position they're easy to exploit.

Saunders on the other hand is not someone who stands in front of you; he is a southpaw who has excellent footwork and has excellent angles.

Canelo would have to time him with overhand counters, pin him down or fight in enough prolonged eye catching spurts to get the better of him. It's probably his hardest fight in years - providing a BJS of sound mindset turns up.

I've ignored the IFLTV video because that's just typical BJS trolling people and playing (very transparent) mind games.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 15:37
Great analysis, I'd also add that Canelo has focussed heavily on working the body with his last few opponents which slows them down. He'll have a much harder time doing that against BJS who's both smaller and faster-footed than Smith, Kovalev or Yildrim
And he has a habit of leaving himself open to counters when he launches the venomous body shots...
Perhaps, but you have to be good enough and have a great ring IQ to capitalise on that; pull your head back, change angles, change posture etc. Otherwise you're standing straight in front of him with very little distance to get leverage and he takes a half step back (before you can read him properly) and he unloads on you with a combination; usually a hook to the body, uppercut and an overhand right.

The way to beat Canelo is keep the distance, give him angles and make him gun shy by countering = EXACTLY what Floyd Mayweather did.
Also, you can only do that if you have a great boxing brain that is greater than his. Unfortunately, the UK does not have a slick coaching style and there is a lack of great trainers here. If there was, then where are all the modern British slickers with amazing ring IQ? Or a Cuban style? Or a Kronk style? It simply does not exist here.

Maybe Shane McGuigan and Ben Davison can teach their fighters that but the likes of Mark Tibbs and Joe Gallagher don't have the skill set to teach that.


The only guys who can beat Canelo right now are

BJS - if he is 100000% focused.

Beterbiev - he'll just club him into submission. He is just way too powerful.

Bivol - who can come down to 168 and use his 1-2 style to keep Canelo at bay but I doubt Bivol and Canelo ever fight.

Everyone else gets bloodied and battered by him.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 17:34

Pugaris

241 posts

8 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
BJS - if he is 100000% focused.

Beterbiev - he'll just club him into submission. He is just way too powerful.

Bivol - who can come down to 168 and use his 1-2 style to keep Canelo at bay but I doubt Bivol and Canelo ever fight.

Everyone else gets bloodied and battered by him.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 17:34
Charlo at a catch-weight? Think it's till a Canelo win but I'd put him at similar odds to BJS.

biggbn

9,630 posts

184 months

Monday 1st March
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
Perhaps, but you have to be good enough and have a great ring IQ to capitalise on that; pull your head back, change angles, change posture etc. Otherwise you're standing straight in front of him with very little distance to get leverage and he takes a half step back (before you can read him properly) and he unloads on you with a combination; usually a hook to the body, uppercut and an overhand right.

The way to beat Canelo is keep the distance, give him angles and make him gun shy by countering = EXACTLY what Floyd Mayweather did.
Also, you can only do that if you have a great boxing brain that is greater than his. Unfortunately, the UK does not have a slick coaching style and there is a lack of great trainers here. If there was, then where are all the modern British slickers with amazing ring IQ? Or a Cuban style? Or a Kronk style? It simply does not exist here.

Maybe Shane McGuigan and Ben Davison can teach their fighters that but the likes of Mark Tibbs and Joe Gallagher don't have the skill set to teach that.


The only guys who can beat Canelo right now are

BJS - if he is 100000% focused.

Beterbiev - he'll just club him into submission. He is just way too powerful.

Bivol - who can come down to 168 and use his 1-2 style to keep Canelo at bay but I doubt Bivol and Canelo ever fight.

Everyone else gets bloodied and battered by him.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 1st March 17:34
I think Saunders is a special talent and has an A to Z and back boxing brain. Sadly I doubt we will ever see the fighter he could have been but if he can put it all together for one night only, this is the time to do it!!

Edited by biggbn on Monday 1st March 19:11

tuscaneer

7,200 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
saunders has got a nice bag of tricks , loads of unusual shots from a very mobile and tricky southpaw... but he hasn't got big power... and canelo got on ok with golovkin's power....he won't be worried about closing him down and taking the odd sneaky counter on the way in

saunders has great counter hooks in both hands, so even though his counter left hook is perfectly positioned to land liver shots canelo has that same weapon in his counter right hook...

everything logical in my mind says canelo walks him down and either wins on points (he will get the nod regardless of if it's close or not and the judges will be able to say they scored it to the aggressor..which seems to be a thing in the states..) or grinds him down for a late stoppage..


Sensei Rob

217 posts

43 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
I'm expecting Saunders to get on his bike and run for the entirety of the 12 rounds.

The closest he was to being put away was in the 12th round against Eubank who is a non-puncher. Pretty fair to say if he gets in a fire fight against Canelo, he'll get put to sleep.

The notion that he can even eek out a decision seems ridiculous, although, it is boxing, and anything can happen.

tuscaneer

7,200 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
andy ruiz v chris arreola april 24th...... yawn.

hyphen

19,561 posts

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
tuscaneer said:
andy ruiz v chris arreola april 24th...... yawn.
Yawn, but necessary. To keep motivated on a comeback, Ruiz need to fight.

It's PPV on Fox though which is taking the piss.

hyphen

19,561 posts

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
Sensei Rob said:
I'm expecting Saunders to get on his bike and run for the entirety of the 12 rounds.
One mans 'runner' is another mans defensive fighter.

Saunders won't just avoid being closed down, when Canelo does get in range, Saunders will look to make Canelo's punches miss the target.

Odds are heavily against him, but has a chance on points. Just needs to be too large margin for the Judges to be able to fix it.

tuscaneer

7,200 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
hyphen said:
tuscaneer said:
andy ruiz v chris arreola april 24th...... yawn.
Yawn, but necessary. To keep motivated on a comeback, Ruiz need to fight.

It's PPV on Fox though which is taking the piss.
independent rankings have ruiz at #5.... arreola has won only 5 of his last 10 and isn't ranked in the top 30....there's keeping busy and there's fking pointless !laugh

Taylor James

3,111 posts

25 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Sensei Rob said:
I'm expecting Saunders to get on his bike and run for the entirety of the 12 rounds.
One mans 'runner' is another mans defensive fighter.

Saunders won't just avoid being closed down, when Canelo does get in range, Saunders will look to make Canelo's punches miss the target.

Odds are heavily against him, but has a chance on points. Just needs to be too large margin for the Judges to be able to fix it.
When you see that one judge gave the fight to Canelo when he was utterly outclassed by Mayweather you know that BJS could win every round and still lose. I think every honest neutral accepts that Canelo has the judges in his pocket and a points win by another fighter is currently an impossibility. It wouldn't be so bad if they were at least consistent in their justification. Tusc highlighted how US judges will reward going forward yet that didn't seem to matter in GGG v Canelo 1, when Canelo spent about ten of the twelve rounds going backwards. Injustices stick in the craw in any sport but it's particularly bad in boxing where the contestants are putting their lives on the line.

Fortunately, if BJS does pull off an obvious win and is then robbed, it will further tarnish Canelo's reputation, as did the injustice around GGG1. It's a shame that people can't accept that a loss does not necessarily diminish a fighter's reputation. The Hearns, Duran, Leonard . Hagler era proves that.

Gerradi

1,047 posts

84 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
Hope BJS gets into top shape, wish he would get to Ingle to come on board, when he fought Murray he was panting like a dog...Canelo can have wind issues as well but the Burgers usually help out , the judges love 'em!

hyphen

19,561 posts

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March
quotequote all
Taylor James said:
When you see that one judge gave the fight to Canelo when he was utterly outclassed by Mayweather you know that BJS could win every round and still lose. I think every honest neutral accepts that Canelo has the judges in his pocket and a points win by another fighter is currently an impossibility. It wouldn't be so bad if they were at least consistent in their justification. Tusc highlighted how US judges will reward going forward yet that didn't seem to matter in GGG v Canelo 1, when Canelo spent about ten of the twelve rounds going backwards. Injustices stick in the craw in any sport but it's particularly bad in boxing where the contestants are putting their lives on the line.

Fortunately, if BJS does pull off an obvious win and is then robbed, it will further tarnish Canelo's reputation, as did the injustice around GGG1. It's a shame that people can't accept that a loss does not necessarily diminish a fighter's reputation. The Hearns, Duran, Leonard . Hagler era proves that.
But GGG didn't gave the Irish Cartel involved wink

Unconfirmed and totally fabricated reports, by me, can confirm that Kinahan has made some calls to his mates in the Mexican Cartel, and they have told Canelo to behave.

Once the judges are named, they will also have visitors.

biggrin