Discussion
Could Japan go on to win it?
The way they play is difficult for anyone to defend against. Their error count is so low that they don’t offer easy ball anywhere on the field. They are hard to scrum against. Other than getting turned in the rucks a little too frequently, they are an extremely rounded side.
I can see them giving SA a real shock next weekend
The way they play is difficult for anyone to defend against. Their error count is so low that they don’t offer easy ball anywhere on the field. They are hard to scrum against. Other than getting turned in the rucks a little too frequently, they are an extremely rounded side.
I can see them giving SA a real shock next weekend
schmalex said:
Could Japan go on to win it?
The way they play is difficult for anyone to defend against. Their error count is so low that they don’t offer easy ball anywhere on the field. They are hard to scrum against. Other than getting turned in the rucks a little too frequently, they are an extremely rounded side.
I can see them giving SA a real shock next weekend
I can really see that. Once you adjust to the idea that a previously unfancied Tier 2 side is actually rather good and indeed better than several Tier 1 teams then its hard to see who they couldn't beat. I've said it before but they are very good at the basics, maintaining a good defensive line, not overcommitting, winning penalties within range of the posts and biding their time until a try scoring opportunity presents itself.The way they play is difficult for anyone to defend against. Their error count is so low that they don’t offer easy ball anywhere on the field. They are hard to scrum against. Other than getting turned in the rucks a little too frequently, they are an extremely rounded side.
I can see them giving SA a real shock next weekend
They made Ireland and Scotland look pretty ill disciplined and disorganised tbh, be interesting to see them play England, Wales, New Zealand or Safrica.
DocJock said:
Totally agree. In reality he should be 4th choice behind (in no particular order) Horne, Price and Pyrgos.
I actually thought Laidlaw was passing better than normal in the game, but yes, I usually groan when I see him come on to replace one of the others - very frustrating to watch in attack.For the game overall, on the one hand we were only a converted try behind, but the scoreline flatters us to a degree as we looked totally outlclassed for large periods of the game. It didn't look like we had really done much preparation for how to go about things if it got tough very quickly (which should not have been a surprise if Japan's recent games had been anything to go by). Japan looked so capable and determined in possession, yet we frequently kicked it away. Our ball retention and passing isn't too bad, but there seemed to be a reluctance to trust in this and work our way up the pitch to find openings (which there clearly there as we found a couple late on). Makes you wonder about key decision makers in the team and some of our supposed "world class" players.
Japan were utterly brillant and terrific to watch though - excellent chance of causing an upset in the next round.
I've seen a few people (not just on here) clamouring for Japan to be included in the Six Nations. For me, the logistics mean that isn't possible.
What I think would make more sense is adding them to the Rugby Championship - and look at adding Fiji to that competition as well. Same number of fixtures, playing each team once rather than twice (like they do in non-World Cup years), alternating between home and away like the Six Nations.
I also think the nations involved in these competitions should be obliged to play a set number of tests against those nations not in the competition in non-World Cup years.
What I think would make more sense is adding them to the Rugby Championship - and look at adding Fiji to that competition as well. Same number of fixtures, playing each team once rather than twice (like they do in non-World Cup years), alternating between home and away like the Six Nations.
I also think the nations involved in these competitions should be obliged to play a set number of tests against those nations not in the competition in non-World Cup years.
CardinalBlue said:
I've seen a few people (not just on here) clamouring for Japan to be included in the Six Nations. For me, the logistics mean that isn't possible.
What I think would make more sense is adding them to the Rugby Championship - and look at adding Fiji to that competition as well. Same number of fixtures, playing each team once rather than twice (like they do in non-World Cup years), alternating between home and away like the Six Nations.
I also think the nations involved in these competitions should be obliged to play a set number of tests against those nations not in the competition in non-World Cup years.
Good ideas. I think for your second one though, if it means additional tests the French and English clubs in particular won't have it, and if no extra matches the unions won't be so keen because games against the aussies/kiwis/boks are going to be much more commercially attractive.What I think would make more sense is adding them to the Rugby Championship - and look at adding Fiji to that competition as well. Same number of fixtures, playing each team once rather than twice (like they do in non-World Cup years), alternating between home and away like the Six Nations.
I also think the nations involved in these competitions should be obliged to play a set number of tests against those nations not in the competition in non-World Cup years.
abzmike said:
Good ideas. I think for your second one though, if it means additional tests the French and English clubs in particular won't have it, and if no extra matches the unions won't be so keen because games against the aussies/kiwis/boks are going to be much more commercially attractive.
You're probably right regarding the extra match. Although I think it would do wonders if say England stopped for a 'warm-up' fixture at the Pacific Island on their way to New Zealand or Namibia on their way to South Africa for the tours there. No idea on the logistics of that btw, just thinking out loud.
Eggchasers had what I thought was a good idea; include Fiji in the 6 Nations and base them in Europe (Spain?). Maybe at the expense of Italy?
Fiji do not have the infrastructure / money to host a tournament in Fiji itself and many of their players play in Europe so it may work.
Also, while we’re at it with left field ideas, what about SA joining the 6N (same time zone) and letting Japan take their place?
Whichever way it goes something needs to be done to pull one or more of the 2 tier nations into the top tier.
Fiji do not have the infrastructure / money to host a tournament in Fiji itself and many of their players play in Europe so it may work.
Also, while we’re at it with left field ideas, what about SA joining the 6N (same time zone) and letting Japan take their place?
Whichever way it goes something needs to be done to pull one or more of the 2 tier nations into the top tier.
ninja-lewis said:
Gargamel said:
Like a number if the so called Tier Two sides, what they need is inclusion in things like the Autumn internationals and tours where they can play three four tests in six weeks.
Need to open up the fixtures, even if it means the T1 sides play second string squads
Agreed. For all the talk of Georgia joining the Six Nation, their warm up against Scotland in Tbilisi was the first time ever that they've had a home game against a T1 side.Need to open up the fixtures, even if it means the T1 sides play second string squads
T1 sides hosting T2 sides in autumn internationals isn't enough - it just highlights the inequality and greed in the current system. Ignore world cups and world cup qualifiers and look at just tour matches/warm ups where sides can choose their opportunities and the opportunities over the past 30 years for other T2 nations to host home games haven't been much better.
Take Japan, although they've had visits by all the T1 sides except England and France, only Argentina, Ireland, Italy and Wales toured Japan before they were award this year's RWC in 2009.
USA (and Canada by association) have hosted numerous tours over the years but there's no doubt that commercial side drives the attraction for T1 sides.
The Pacific Islanders are much worse off. Fiji have only hosted 2 visits each by Italy and Scotland since 2010, and just 6 other games since 1990.
Five matches against the Celtic nations and Italy for Tonga while only Samoa can count a visit from New Zealand.
Portugal and Russia have never hosted a T1 side. Spain just twice. Uruguay have only had Argentina three times in the '90s and Italy twice. Namibia a tour each from Ireland and Wales almost 30 years ago. Romania have struggled since 2000.
The contrast with pre-6 Nations Italy is stark - they had home games against all T1 sides except England and France between 1995-1999.
amongst the T1 sides, the only sides making a half-effort since 1990 are: Wales (20), Italy (18), Ireland (17), Scotland (15), France (14) and Argentina (10).
The records of the others are just disgraceful: New Zealand, Australia, England (all 4) and South Africa (2). It looks even worse when we consider that 3 of these 14 matches were v Japan in last 3 years (i.e. RWC familiarization visits), that New Zealand's 4 are all since 2013 and that England's last T2 tour was Canada/USA in 2001 with a just solitary game against Fiji in 1991 before that.
Time to insist that T2 countries are fully included in hosting autumn internationals and summer tours against T1 sides - even if that means no more 3 match tours between T1 nations.
We get to sit here and pontificate about what should happen because we're all engaged in rugby just for fun. If my coaching & reffing kids started to impact on my ability to do my day job, then I'd have to seriously reconsider it, as paying the mortgage and food bills have to come first. For the Tier 1 unions, the matches against their peers are what pay the mortgage.
I think the only way to get more exposure for Tier 2 nations is for World Rugby to come up with a model they can impose without bankrupting the Tier 1 nations in the process. Maybe something along the lines of a levy on all Tier 1 vs Tier 1 matches which is then used to fund Tier 1 nations taking it in turn to do annual Pacific Islands & Japan and Emerging Europe tours? Get a couple of teams from those regions up to speed then with the expanded number of Tier 1 nations, you can add in Emerging Americas & Africa tours.
JulianPH said:
Stella Tortoise said:
irocfan said:
full time professionals vs semi-pro would have a fair bit to do with it....
b
ks, you people keep blurting about how lucky the Welsh team have been yet they keep winning.You are full of s
t.Not a bad result.
Wales is certainly lucky, but only in the sense they have some incredible talent and are very good at rugby, currently second only to the All Blacks and (albeit briefly) recently ranked above them.
Australia can beat any team on their day, but couldn't beat Wales a couple of weeks ago.
It has nothing to do with luck, it is all about who is the better team on the day. If France turn up next weekend they may be the better team, but if Wales win it is not luck, it is them being the better team.
Anyway, well done (again) to Japan!
warch said:
I can really see that. Once you adjust to the idea that a previously unfancied Tier 2 side is actually rather good and indeed better than several Tier 1 teams then its hard to see who they couldn't beat. I've said it before but they are very good at the basics, maintaining a good defensive line, not overcommitting, winning penalties within range of the posts and biding their time until a try scoring opportunity presents itself.
They made Ireland and Scotland look pretty ill disciplined and disorganised tbh, be interesting to see them play England, Wales, New Zealand or Safrica.
Betfair has them at 60 (59-1). Worth a couple of ££?They made Ireland and Scotland look pretty ill disciplined and disorganised tbh, be interesting to see them play England, Wales, New Zealand or Safrica.
DocJock said:
Much as I love watching Japan play, I'm afraid I can see SA playing the power game and beating Japan down.
Completely agree. Scotland played right into Japan's hands but SA are very unlikely to make the same mistake.So who do we think will go through to the semis? I'd suggest NZ, England, Wales and SA. I think France are capable of beating Wales and Aus are capable of beating England, so if there's to be an 'upset', it'll be in one of those two games. I can't see Japan beating SA or Ireland beating NZ, much as I'd love it if they did!
yellowjack said:
It was interesting to see that both Wales and Japan had exactly the same stats as one-another on one online source for the pool final standings tables, at least with regard to wins/bonus points.
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