Sprinting - 400metres/60 secs

[CheesecakeRunner]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

What’s the point? Do you want to achieve your goal of a sub-60 or do you want an injury? Swallow your pride, find someone who is actually willing to work with you, and then get the achievement of doing the time.

You have a toxic relationship with this coach and it’s not going to help you in any way.

[bangerhoarder]

In simplistic terms, the rule of thumb for speed work in sprints (which is the same for 60m to 400m, because all of those distances are run as a sprint) is 1 min rest for 10m of sprinting. Some old school coaches seem to think that getting fast over 400m means working an athlete’s endurance and CV with short rests.

That has its place - but it won’t make you sprint faster. The exception is doing splits - say 300m/150m with 1 min between. This can help to recharge ATP-PC for the second split.

The really high workload stuff can be very effective for elite level athletes, some military stuff, and CrossFit type athletes, but not sprints (IMO, IME, and in my training as a coach).

[MC Bodge]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Either you, he, or both of you, have an odd, possibly destructive, attitude towards training.

[Scabutz]

Get some of those fancy Nikes. That will knock a couple of seconds off already.

[andyA700]

I would say that interval training is the best way to get quicker over all distances, but particularly 400m plus. You need to train your body to tolerate pain, in a way which lets you see improvement. Let us say you do 5 x 50m all out sprints, with a gentle jog recovery of 100m between each sprint. At some point you will increase the intervals to 3 x 100m with a 200m jog/rest. I would do no more than 2 interval sessions a week. The 400m is completely different to the 60/100/200m, because the body is crossing over from the ATP/CP (adenosine triphosphate/creatine phosphate) energy system, to the Lactate energy system. If the ATP/CP system was able to be used entirely for the 400m then the World record would be around the 38s mark.
That is why the 400m (and 1K time trial in cycling) are so hard, so painful.

https://www.pdhpe.net/factors-affecting-performanc...

[Kawasicki]

I did a huge amount of similar training and ended up being quick(ish) over 800m (1‘54“) but it never made me a quick 400m runner. I was faster than most in 100, 200 & 400, but when it got to halfway serious sprint competition I was just not strong/explosive enough, especially at the start. Weirdly, the overly intense training also made me uncompetitive at 1500m.

I was born with the ability/desire to go deep into the red, so I focused too much on this in training. I don’t think this is an uncommon situation.

[okgo]

MC Bodge said:

Either you, he, or both of you, have an odd, possibly destructive, attitude towards training.

I suspect OP is a bit of a walt, has posted all sorts of ste on the cycling forum too.

[andyA700]

Kawasicki said:

I did a huge amount of similar training and ended up being quick(ish) over 800m (1‘54“) but it never made me a quick 400m runner. I was faster than most in 100, 200 & 400, but when it got to halfway serious sprint competition I was just not strong/explosive enough, especially at the start. Weirdly, the overly intense training also made me uncompetitive at 1500m.

I was born with the ability/desire to go deep into the red, so I focused too much on this in training. I don’t think this is an uncommon situation.

1' 54" is not a bad time at all for 800m. As for the 1,500m, that is firmly in the fast aerobic zone, so your fast twitch sprinters muscles would be competing with the slow twitch distance runners. I wonder how many people realise that Mo Farah holds every UK record between 1,500m and 20,000m.

[bangerhoarder]

andyA700 said:

I would say that interval training is the best way to get quicker over all distances, but particularly 400m plus. You need to train your body to tolerate pain, in a way which lets you see improvement. Let us say you do 5 x 50m all out sprints, with a gentle jog recovery of 100m between each sprint. At some point you will increase the intervals to 3 x 100m with a 200m jog/rest. I would do no more than 2 interval sessions a week. The 400m is completely different to the 60/100/200m, because the body is crossing over from the ATP/CP (adenosine triphosphate/creatine phosphate) energy system, to the Lactate energy system. If the ATP/CP system was able to be used entirely for the 400m then the World record would be around the 38s mark.
That is why the 400m (and 1K time trial in cycling) are so hard, so painful.

https://www.pdhpe.net/factors-affecting-performanc...

Kind of. The body crosses over from ATP-PC after about five seconds of sprinting - then goes into AG/Lactic Anaerobic, so that switch happens on all sprint distances.

The difference with 400m is that AG also gets exhausted after 45s or so, so you switch to aerobic, but with a ton of lactate to deal with.

Have no doubt though, that a 400m is trained for as a sprint. It just ends up as a short middle distance run if you do it with too little rest in your training, and won’t crack 50s.

Edited by bangerhoarder on Monday 14th June 17:34

[okgo]

Averaging 21mph round a pan flat park at 5.30am is probably about 5mph short of wheelsuckers/RPR pace no?