England cricket, summer 2021
Discussion
NowWatchThisDrive said:
Just seen that Essex are now getting dragged into it. Feels like a can of worms has been opened and this is becoming something that's going to be talked about for a while yet......
John Farragher, the Essex Chairman, has denied the accusation (allegedly made in 2017) but still stood down. He was going to go at the end of the year anyway I understand.I have had conversations with John and he is a lovely, gentle man for whom Essex CCC owe a lot. I'm sure were he not going he would have bothered to defend himself.
What is getting really silly is a second allegation from Zoheb Sharif who claims he was on the end of racist abuse in 2001 - 20 years ago - what made him pipe up now. Apparently it was really bad (cover your ears now), he was referred to as "curry muncher", how terrible, and the day after the 9/11 attacks he was nicknamed "The Bomber". Now come on, he's a grown man in a sports environment. What does he expect? Full story here: https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/news/zoheb_sha...
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 15th November 22:18
Murph7355 said:
The Aussie sledging should be off the scale!
Still laugh at the exchange between Rod Marsh and Ian Botham:When Beefy took guard in an Ashes match, Marsh welcomed him with:
“So how’s your wife and my kids?”
to which Botham shot back:
”The wife’s fine, but the kids are retarded.”
ValleyRed said:
John Farragher, the Essex Chairman, has denied the accusation (allegedly made in 2017) but still stood down. He was going to go at the end of the year anyway I understand.
I have had conversations with John and he is a lovely, gentle man for whom Essex CCC owe a lot. I'm sure were he not going he would have bothered to defend himself.
What is getting really silly is a second allegation from Zoheb Sharif who claims he was on the end of racist abuse in 2001 - 20 years ago - what made him pipe up now. Apparently it was really bad (cover your ears now), he was referred to as "curry muncher", how terrible, and the day after the 9/11 attacks he was nicknamed "The Bomber". Now come on, he's a grown man in a sports environment. What does he expect? Full story here: https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/news/zoheb_sha...
There was an Irish footballer at Yeovil, lovely guy and a decent player! His nickname was Cemtex, obviously a throwback to the troubles over there; he laughed it off and got on with life. The sporting dressing rooms of the world are a different place to anywhere else in terms of nicknames, banter etc. If someone has gone too far and genuinely racially abused someone (or other abuse!) then deal with it but for stuff like Sharif is coming out with, not sure it's on the same level tbh. I have had conversations with John and he is a lovely, gentle man for whom Essex CCC owe a lot. I'm sure were he not going he would have bothered to defend himself.
What is getting really silly is a second allegation from Zoheb Sharif who claims he was on the end of racist abuse in 2001 - 20 years ago - what made him pipe up now. Apparently it was really bad (cover your ears now), he was referred to as "curry muncher", how terrible, and the day after the 9/11 attacks he was nicknamed "The Bomber". Now come on, he's a grown man in a sports environment. What does he expect? Full story here: https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/news/zoheb_sha...
Edited by ValleyRed on Monday 15th November 22:18
ValleyRed said:
Now come on, he's a grown man in a sports environment. What does he expect?
Not being subject to racist abuse in a workplace is a basic and reasonable expectation. Anyone who tries to hide behind the "it's just banter" excuse needs to grow up and give their head a wobble. mantis84 said:
ValleyRed said:
Now come on, he's a grown man in a sports environment. What does he expect?
Not being subject to racist abuse in a workplace is a basic and reasonable expectation. Anyone who tries to hide behind the "it's just banter" excuse needs to grow up and give their head a wobble. However, if there were other highly offensive slurs being cast around by all and sundry, I think that does change the complexion. Of course that isn't "professional" either. But it happens, and not just in sport.
I'm listening to the testimony now. If we're to get to the bottom of this, we need to hear equally open testimony from the likes of Ballance and Vaughan and the others who are being name-checked.
toasty said:
Is it just me or is he just playing the race card because he didn't cut it at top level?
I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
He did captain England U15 and was captain of Yorkshire so I’d say he did pretty well. I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
toasty said:
Is it just me or is he just playing the race card because he didn't cut it at top level?
I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
Untangling those things is incredibly difficult, I think. And all the more so at the moment.I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
I also got a distinct impression that the biggest impact/influence of Rafiq at the time was the horrific personal situation he was going through at home (the loss of a child - that sort of thing would utterly destroy me).
Before making any sort of informed opinion I think it would be absolutely necessary to hear the views and recall of the other named people as noted. Rafiq has called out Ballance as not being a best mate throughout this period, for example. And with three people now stating Vaughan did make the comment he made, I think Vaughan is going to need to demonstrate that he didn't and/or that context (at the time and over time) was lost and being misrepresented.
I really don't see that they can keep quiet now, but equally am not sure what they're going to be able to say that will support their views.
toasty said:
Is it just me or is he just playing the race card because he didn't cut it at top level?
No, it's just you. Victim blaming at its finest. toasty said:
I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
You dislike someone who you view as a 'whiner' almost as much as people who abuse others because of their race? Wow, what a class act you are. toasty said:
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
They do. But that's not the point you're trying to make here is it - you're essentially blaming the victim of racism for being racially abused and having the audacity to speak out about it so that it doesn't happen again. This hearing is happening because of people like you, who seek to smear and blame the victim of racism for daring to say something about it instead of staying quiet and just putting up with it. Utterly disgraceful. toasty said:
Is it just me or is he just playing the race card because he didn't cut it at top level?
I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
Seems an odd stance to take based on what we know so far. So because he didn't play for England at the top level he is just going to throw out the 'everyone's a racist card'? I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
Challo said:
toasty said:
Is it just me or is he just playing the race card because he didn't cut it at top level?
I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
Seems an odd stance to take based on what we know so far. So because he didn't play for England at the top level he is just going to throw out the 'everyone's a racist card'? I abhor racism but almost as much I abhor self-entitled whiners.
The ECB should try to get the best cricketers they can, regardless of race, not just so they can fill diversity quotas.
Edited by Tony Angelino on Tuesday 16th November 12:36
some amazing comments on this thread.
White people who have never experienced racism telling people affected by racism how they should feel and take racist abuse. Class.
FYI on the Race Card. Yeh. what a card that is we get to play. As Afua Hirsch wrote:
accusing a person of colour of “playing the race card” when they speak about racism is intended to silence, threaten or “shame someone into not mentioning the obvious racism they’re being subjected to”.
statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues. Or maybe i can play the race card when statistically speaking, black and asian people are paid less for jobs to their white counterparts in the same field.
If only this wonderous race card could be used then eh? what a card though. Brilliant. really helpful.
White people who have never experienced racism telling people affected by racism how they should feel and take racist abuse. Class.
FYI on the Race Card. Yeh. what a card that is we get to play. As Afua Hirsch wrote:
accusing a person of colour of “playing the race card” when they speak about racism is intended to silence, threaten or “shame someone into not mentioning the obvious racism they’re being subjected to”.
statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues. Or maybe i can play the race card when statistically speaking, black and asian people are paid less for jobs to their white counterparts in the same field.
If only this wonderous race card could be used then eh? what a card though. Brilliant. really helpful.
Just to add, whilst you're spouting about the race card, you're completely ignoring the facts that were brought up by Rafiq on the game itself. How can it be that a large proportion of those who make it to the England team were privately educated given the school numbers in England?
93% of school aged children in England go to state schools, 7% or so go to private schools.
Yet 37.5% of England Test cricketers in 2020 were privately educated. You should be angry about that.
93% of school aged children in England go to state schools, 7% or so go to private schools.
Yet 37.5% of England Test cricketers in 2020 were privately educated. You should be angry about that.
DiamondLights said:
some amazing comments on this thread.
White people who have never experienced racism telling people affected by racism how they should feel and take racist abuse. Class.
FYI on the Race Card. Yeh. what a card that is we get to play. As Afua Hirsch wrote:
accusing a person of colour of “playing the race card” when they speak about racism is intended to silence, threaten or “shame someone into not mentioning the obvious racism they’re being subjected to”.
statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues. Or maybe i can play the race card when statistically speaking, black and asian people are paid less for jobs to their white counterparts in the same field.
If only this wonderous race card could be used then eh? what a card though. Brilliant. really helpful.
Agreed, it's pretty bloody shameful that people are taking this stance. This has been running for over a year, people have resigned or been suspended and there's a parliamentary inquiry but hey he's just "playing the race card". ObnoxiousWhite people who have never experienced racism telling people affected by racism how they should feel and take racist abuse. Class.
FYI on the Race Card. Yeh. what a card that is we get to play. As Afua Hirsch wrote:
accusing a person of colour of “playing the race card” when they speak about racism is intended to silence, threaten or “shame someone into not mentioning the obvious racism they’re being subjected to”.
statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues. Or maybe i can play the race card when statistically speaking, black and asian people are paid less for jobs to their white counterparts in the same field.
If only this wonderous race card could be used then eh? what a card though. Brilliant. really helpful.
DiamondLights said:
...
statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues.....
Out of interest, what conclusions are you drawing from this particular comment?statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues.....
DiamondLights said:
....
93% of school aged children in England go to state schools, 7% or so go to private schools.
Yet 37.5% of England Test cricketers in 2020 were privately educated. You should be angry about that.
And on this one, there are going to be plenty of reasons behind it.93% of school aged children in England go to state schools, 7% or so go to private schools.
Yet 37.5% of England Test cricketers in 2020 were privately educated. You should be angry about that.
The quality of equipment and the quality of teaching at private schools is significantly better, as is the amount of time given over to sport (and education in general).
Is it fair that some kids get these opportunities when others don't? A very, very complicated topic. Getting angry about it won't change anything. Sensible debate might be a start.
(There's a YCCC thread over in NP&E. Might be better to take this discussion over there).
Apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier comments. I was wrong to dismiss his case so freely.
Your replies made me read more on the allegations and the offences were more recent and went way beyond what I'd heard reported as 'banter' by earlier media reports.
Nobody should have to put up with that.
Your replies made me read more on the allegations and the offences were more recent and went way beyond what I'd heard reported as 'banter' by earlier media reports.
Nobody should have to put up with that.
toasty said:
Apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier comments. I was wrong to dismiss his case so freely.
Your replies made me read more on the allegations and the offences were more recent and went way beyond what I'd heard reported as 'banter' by earlier media reports.
Nobody should have to put up with that.
Fair play, thanks for posting. Your replies made me read more on the allegations and the offences were more recent and went way beyond what I'd heard reported as 'banter' by earlier media reports.
Nobody should have to put up with that.
Murph7355 said:
DiamondLights said:
...
statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues.....
Out of interest, what conclusions are you drawing from this particular comment?statistically speaking, more black and asian people die in healthcare than white counterparts for similar health issues.....
DiamondLights said:
If you want to understand differing perspectives, i strongly recommend reading Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race by Reni Eddo-Lodge, or Brit(ish) by Afua Hirsch. If you or others read those, you may be enlightened to the structural problems that exist in society.
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