England cricket, summer 2021
Discussion
toasty said:
Apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier comments. I was wrong to dismiss his case so freely.
Your replies made me read more on the allegations and the offences were more recent and went way beyond what I'd heard reported as 'banter' by earlier media reports.
Nobody should have to put up with that.
Your replies made me read more on the allegations and the offences were more recent and went way beyond what I'd heard reported as 'banter' by earlier media reports.
Nobody should have to put up with that.
Smollet said:
ValleyRed said:
We've all said something we shouldn't have but why wait 20 years, in Sharifs case, or between 13-16 years in Maurice Chambers case, to raise it.
Surely it should have been raised at the time?
I agree completely agree Surely it should have been raised at the time?
His broadcasting career is over.
I’m interested to note there are similar allegations being raised in Indian domestic cricket regarding prejudice against Muslim players in Hindu dominated areas of the country.
The Indian national team also suffered a backlash after the recent loss against Pakistan, with Muslim Indian player Mohammed Shami getting a fair amount of abuse.
The problem is that anti Muslim sentiment, which is what this current controversy is mainly about is considered more acceptable in the UK, even our current PM has recently used language or terms that could be considered racist in respect of Muslim people. It’s not acceptable.
The Indian national team also suffered a backlash after the recent loss against Pakistan, with Muslim Indian player Mohammed Shami getting a fair amount of abuse.
The problem is that anti Muslim sentiment, which is what this current controversy is mainly about is considered more acceptable in the UK, even our current PM has recently used language or terms that could be considered racist in respect of Muslim people. It’s not acceptable.
Newarch said:
....
The problem is that anti Muslim sentiment, which is what this current controversy is mainly about is considered more acceptable in the UK, even our current PM has recently used language or terms that could be considered racist in respect of Muslim people. It’s not acceptable.
I think that's guff. No racist sentiment is acceptable in this country. The problem is that anti Muslim sentiment, which is what this current controversy is mainly about is considered more acceptable in the UK, even our current PM has recently used language or terms that could be considered racist in respect of Muslim people. It’s not acceptable.
Are there racists here? Sure there are. Show me one place on the planet where there aren't. Is it systemic here? There is nothing to support that it is.
Presumably the PM comments you are referring to are about traditional dress? If so, go back and check the full context of those comments.
(I'll hold off further posts in this thread as I don't think it's the place for it - NP&E has plenty of discussion along similar lines).
I used to live in Luton and there were Pakistani only teams there, used to go and watch games on walks in the park, there were three pitches there, never once saw a white player playing there, so maybe that is something that also needs looking at? It certainly doesn't seem odd to me, there is a huge Pakistani community in that town and they all love cricket it seems so why not have your own teams, but that also seems to me to fairly uninclusive, maybe?
Murph7355 said:
No racist sentiment is acceptable in this country.
Good, we are in agreement then.
Murph7355 said:
Are there racists here? Sure there are. Show me one place on the planet where there aren't. Is it systemic here? There is nothing to support that it is.
I didn't say we just had institutionalised racism here, I actually referred to a very similar issue in India, whereby Muslim or Pakistani players are also subjected to racial prejudice. Racism and prejudice is a fairly universal issue the world over, but we're seeking to address it in this country and in the context of the game of cricket. Murph7355 said:
Presumably the PM comments you are referring to are about traditional dress? If so, go back and check the full context of those comments.
(I'll hold off further posts in this thread as I don't think it's the place for it - NP&E has plenty of discussion along similar lines).
I cannot conceive of a context whereby criticising and ridiculing the clothing worn by those of a certain religion would be acceptable. He also described Islam as the problem, and stated that Muslims need to fit in in British society, again substitute any other religion or race for the word Muslim and see how acceptable that sounds.(I'll hold off further posts in this thread as I don't think it's the place for it - NP&E has plenty of discussion along similar lines).
Eradicating racism is all about breaking down barriers, and promoting understanding. If a white person and an Asian person have a shared love of the game of cricket then it helps to achieve this. I don't know exactly what form abuse took at Yorkshire Cricket Club, if it was misuse of the P word in a non prejudicial way then that needs addressing, as many Pakistani people find that offensive, if it was outright discrimination, prejudice or unfair treatment of Pakistani players then that is more serious.
I do recall several years ago Tony Greig used the P word in commentary, he was talking about the crowd celebrating about a wicket being taken or a boundary, he said it without malice or racist context, it was used to define a group of happy people celebrating, I have no idea if it was considered bad language at the time, but it stood out to me when I watched it a few years ago, I was almost rewinding to listen again just to make sure!!
I have heard this man talk in the last day, he sound angry, bitter and very determined, I think that could be put to good use quite honestly in the game.
I have heard this man talk in the last day, he sound angry, bitter and very determined, I think that could be put to good use quite honestly in the game.
I don’t see how there’s a context in which the P word isn’t racist.
I’m mid 50’s, born in Bradford and brought up in a northern working class town…. When I was school age, P*** was widely used… and even back then, it was never anything other than a derogatory term.
Anyone who uses it in today’s society knows it’s highly offensive, no matter what context it’s used in.
I’m mid 50’s, born in Bradford and brought up in a northern working class town…. When I was school age, P*** was widely used… and even back then, it was never anything other than a derogatory term.
Anyone who uses it in today’s society knows it’s highly offensive, no matter what context it’s used in.
LukeBrown66 said:
I used to live in Luton and there were Pakistani only teams there, used to go and watch games on walks in the park, there were three pitches there, never once saw a white player playing there, so maybe that is something that also needs looking at? It certainly doesn't seem odd to me, there is a huge Pakistani community in that town and they all love cricket it seems so why not have your own teams, but that also seems to me to fairly uninclusive, maybe?
There is not a huge Pakistani community in Luton. The majority of Asians are Bengali, followed by Indian, followed by Pakistani.I was the only white guy who played cricket on the park I showed yesterday.
Azeem Rafiq apologises for historical anti-Semitic Facebook messages https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118
Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
Argybargy said:
Azeem Rafiq apologises for historical anti-Semitic Facebook messages https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118
Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
Yup he’s guilty of what he’s accusing others of. Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
Smollet said:
Argybargy said:
Azeem Rafiq apologises for historical anti-Semitic Facebook messages https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118
Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
Yup he’s guilty of what he’s accusing others of. Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
His mealy mouthed apology will be just enough for it all to be forgotten.
He won't be cancelled.
Argybargy said:
Azeem Rafiq apologises for historical anti-Semitic Facebook messages https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118
Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
. Oh dear. I fear some hypocrisy is evident.
What a monumental d
head and such a bloody shame. His credibility goes right down the pan just when he was starting to gain momentum. Anti Semitic idiot.
Chris Stott said:
I don’t see how there’s a context in which the P word isn’t racist.
........Anyone who uses it in today’s society knows it’s highly offensive, no matter what context it’s used in.
I have to disagree. What's the difference between some one from Afghanistan being call Afghani, someone from Kurdistan region being called a Kurd, someone from Uzbekistan being an Uzbeki and someone from Pakistan being called a ........Anyone who uses it in today’s society knows it’s highly offensive, no matter what context it’s used in.
? (Why has this been censored?)It is the context that's important. As an insult, unacceptable, as a descriptor quite acceptable.
Perhaps English cricket will at last face the glaringly obvious reality of having a large asian community, generally obsessed with the sport, but barely any players making it into first class ranks.
Having finally been forced to address the issue, can they succesfully change decades of missed opportunity? I'm not holding my breath.
On the face of it, it has appeared that you had less chance getting into the England test side if you were from Bradford than Cape Town.
Having finally been forced to address the issue, can they succesfully change decades of missed opportunity? I'm not holding my breath.
On the face of it, it has appeared that you had less chance getting into the England test side if you were from Bradford than Cape Town.
ValleyRed said:
I have to disagree. What's the difference between some one from Afghanistan being call Afghani, someone from Kurdistan region being called a Kurd, someone from Uzbekistan being an Uzbeki and someone from Pakistan being called a ? (Why has this been censored?)
It is the context that's important. As an insult, unacceptable, as a descriptor quite acceptable.
P*** is not the same as, as anyone who’s lived in the UK for any length of time knows full well. It has a racist connotation which over rides any context in which it’s used. ? (Why has this been censored?)It is the context that's important. As an insult, unacceptable, as a descriptor quite acceptable.
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