GOLF - 2022

[fat80b]

Rosscow said:

Rumours that DeChambeau and Reed have jumped ship to LIV Golf too!

I'm very interested in how this pans out, and can't blame the players for doing it. PGA and DP tours must be bricking it to be honest.

It’s a good thing imho. The PGA have been shown to be a bunch of self serving bullies threatening all who want to try a new tour on weekends that don’t clash with their own events. The lesson should be that you generally don’t get the outcome that you want by threatening folk.

I would have also thought they are on dodgy ground to claim that members cannot play elsewhere. It all sounds a little bit Bosman in terms of legality and it’ll be interesting if someone ( Phil perhaps) opts to go to court to prove a point. ( He may well feel spurned enough to do so. )

The fact that the majors are separate from the tours may well also be a problem if the open events have to pick a stance.

Interesting times ahead

[Andy 308GTB]

DJ got $150mio for joining the LIV, I read that Mickelson got $200mio. Rory must have been offered above that.

The bullst answers given in this LIV press conference with DJ, McDowell, Little Louis and a 15 year old are funny/cringeworthy. 'No one mention the money'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjgXh7BjosE

I'll be at the Scottish Open in month or so, some good players now being confirmed, the prize list isn't as convincing as the LIV

1st Prize - Electric Kettle

2nd Prize - Secondhand set of cutlery

3rd Prize - Packet of Rich Tea biscuits

[bodhi]

I'm struggling to get myself in too much of a lather about the LIV Tour - I think the stance they've taken against the PGA Tour (and to a lesser extent the DP Tour) is unfortunate and I don't begrudge the other tours responding in kind - but it's us fans that will lose out imo if names like Bryson, Phil and DJ are banned from the PGA Tour, and Westwood, Garcia and Poulter all banished from Team Europe.

Sadly it seems like Greg Normal is the grudge bearing sort, so rather than set up another tour in the offseason - or more a competitor for the WGC Events - he decided to go straight for the angry bull poking.

[AndrewT1275]

Played in a mixed pairs open a couple of days ago. The format was Pinehurst Pairs which I'd not played before. It's a bit like Greensomes but you both drive, then you each play your partner's ball for the second shot, then you decide which ball you want to continue with taking alternate shots.

MrsT is fairly new to the game and playing off 24 but she drives a straight 180 - 200 yards, hits a good hybrid on the fairways and putts well. Her main weakness is 60 yards and in around the greens but this format suited us very well as we were generally on the greens in regulation and if not then I'd get us on and she'd deal with the putting.

Our combined handicap was 16 so, given how far she can hit the ball off the red tees, I was viewing it as 6 'extra' shots over my playing handicap.

Holes 2 through 5 were tough as there was a thick fog reducing visibility to about 100 yards so we had to guess where the hole went, hit it straight and hope it ended up roughly where aimed. The weather cleared after that and it became a lot more enjoyable.

We played out of our skins and walked in with 44 points. As the other scores started getting posted up they were all in the 30s with one other pair on 41. I was a little embarrased by our score but our handicaps are genuine, the format really suited our game, and we had played very well.

And then a pair who are members at that club came in with..
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.
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.
.
.
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52 points.




Fifty.


Two.


I've never seen a score that high in over 35 years of playing and it's not as though it was one low handicapper doing the heavy lifting and leveraging a higher handicapper's extra shots. He was off 30 and she was off 51!

So what's the highest stableford score you have seen?

[Tycho]

52 points! When one of the guys in our comp posted 44 in individual Stableford eyebrows were raised but 52 isn’t even trying to look like you’re not bandits. I suspect a healthy cut in handicaps are coming their way.


With respect to the LIV tour I’d have more respect for the players of the PGA tour was only giving them a basic standard of living like the Jamega tour or the smaller ones. It’s really cringeworthy to listen to the players saying it’s not about the money and we are players not politicians when asked about sportswashing. I’d rather they admitted it is just about the money.

[48Valves]

Can’t remember the exact score now, but I played with a lad who shot over 50 points in a work society event.

It was individual stableford off full HC and his was in the high 20s. The course was quite short and was dry so played very short on the day.

He had over 30 points after 9 holes having holed out twice for eagle from the fairway on holes he got 2 shots on. It was quite something to watch. He was quite embarrassed at the total, but he had a genuine HC. There were other scores in the high 40 so it wasn’t too outrageous.

[AndrewT1275]

Well these two won't be getting a cut as it was a pairs comp and therefore non-qualifying.

Over 50 in an individual stableford is quite something but it sounds like he had a lot of luck on the day and if there were others scoring high forties it sounds like the course and conditions were very favourable.

Impressive scoring though.

Anyone seen a massive score from someone with less than say 18 handicap?

[kiethton]

AndrewT1275 said:

Well these two won't be getting a cut as it was a pairs comp and therefore non-qualifying.

Over 50 in an individual stableford is quite something but it sounds like he had a lot of luck on the day and if there were others scoring high forties it sounds like the course and conditions were very favourable.

Impressive scoring though.

Anyone seen a massive score from someone with less than say 18 handicap?

Last society game a guy playing off 9 came in with 42 points

He then got 2 hole in ones (his first 2 ever) within 4 weeks of each other on the same hole of his home course

[Blackpuddin]

Tycho said:

With respect to the LIV tour I’d have more respect for the players of the PGA tour was only giving them a basic standard of living like the Jamega tour or the smaller ones. It’s really cringeworthy to listen to the players saying it’s not about the money and we are players not politicians when asked about sportswashing. I’d rather they admitted it is just about the money.

Totally agree with all that. They'll have more embarrassing questions to put up with.

[Challo]

Blackpuddin said:

Tycho said:

With respect to the LIV tour I’d have more respect for the players of the PGA tour was only giving them a basic standard of living like the Jamega tour or the smaller ones. It’s really cringeworthy to listen to the players saying it’s not about the money and we are players not politicians when asked about sportswashing. I’d rather they admitted it is just about the money.

Totally agree with all that. They'll have more embarrassing questions to put up with.

If they still have access to the majors then I dont see an issue with players going to the LIV tour. We still look at players based on how many majors they have one, not how many times they have won the John Deere classic.

I do agree that players should be open an honest about playing for the money. Its quite funny to see players like Mcilroy come out and have a dig about players doing things for money not always working out. Wasn't he happy to take the bundles of cash to play Taylormade Clubs, or wear Nike clothing?

[Blackpuddin]

Challo said:

Blackpuddin said:

Tycho said:

With respect to the LIV tour I’d have more respect for the players of the PGA tour was only giving them a basic standard of living like the Jamega tour or the smaller ones. It’s really cringeworthy to listen to the players saying it’s not about the money and we are players not politicians when asked about sportswashing. I’d rather they admitted it is just about the money.

Totally agree with all that. They'll have more embarrassing questions to put up with.

If they still have access to the majors then I dont see an issue with players going to the LIV tour. We still look at players based on how many majors they have one, not how many times they have won the John Deere classic.

I do agree that players should be open an honest about playing for the money. Its quite funny to see players like Mcilroy come out and have a dig about players doing things for money not always working out. Wasn't he happy to take the bundles of cash to play Taylormade Clubs, or wear Nike clothing?

In fairness he did say in that interview that 'money stuff not working out' had happened to him a couple of times in his career. I'd sleep a lot easier with his moral stance than that of the LIV players who are just looking venal in interviews.

[sxmwht]

fat80b said:

The lesson should be that you generally don’t get the outcome that you want by threatening folk.

The Saudis have a pretty good track record of using threats (and following through on said threats) to get the outcome they want.

Edited by sxmwht on Thursday 9th June 09:51

[Rosscow]

I don't get it to be honest, I think that golf is getting bullied here.

The DP World Tour has a Race to Dubai for crying out loud - I'm sure that Dubai isn't far behind the likes of Saudi Arabia if you scratch beneath the glass and marble surface.

The WGC has a competition in China, another country with questionable human rights.

Over 700 people have died from shootings in the US since that school tragedy a fortnight ago. 700! And the US also has capital punishment just like SA.

F1 doesn't get this much bad press despite having a race in Saudi Arabia.

And let's not even mention the football, which is quietly brushed under the carpet by millions!

Of course they're it for the money but can you really blame them?

Edited by Rosscow on Thursday 9th June 10:25

[Andy 308GTB]

Rosscow said:

I don't get it to be honest, I think that golf is getting bullied here.

The DP World Tour has a Race to Dubai for crying out loud - I'm sure that Dubai isn't far behind the likes of Saudi Arabia if you scratch beneath the glass and marble surface.

The WGC has a competition in China, another country with questionable human rights.

Over 700 people have died from shootings in the US since that school tragedy a fortnight ago. 700! And the US also has capital punishment just like SA.

F1 doesn't get this much bad press despite having a race in Saudi Arabia.

And let's not even mention the football, which is quietly brushed under the carpet by millions!

Of course they're it for the money but can you really blame them?

Edited by Rosscow on Thursday 9th June 10:25

I think the splintering of top level golf is unfortunate but inevitable - it's happened in many sports over the years.
I certainly don't blame the players for chasing the money but some honesty would be appreciated though!
Objecting to this initiative on the basis of it being Saudi money is laughable and hypocritical.

The players have been criticising the PGA for sometime now - saying that the PGA are sitting on a huge pile of cash & making large charitable donations. But the players think that they are the 'show' and should getting a bigger slice of the pie. As an aside, it was mentioned on the recent Sky Golf Podcast (Robert Lee lost it a bit) that the PGA provide pensions for the players,which are very generous.

I think the biggest problem is the LIV trying to skim off the top players. Which would devalue the PGA Tour. Understandably the PGA are defending their position.

I'm not sure what the LIV end game is. I think they are looking to extend to 14 tournaments a year - which with the Opens and the Masters would probably be enough for most professionals (?). But I can't see the current format persisting - despite DJ et al saying how exciting it is .
If they want to replace the PGA they should do as Matthew Southgate suggested and set up a funded Q-School and start drawing in the new talent. It would take 5 years but after that they would have the bulk of the top players (look at the PGA Tour, how many of the current winners did you know of 5 years ago?)

[Blackpuddin]

All LIV players taking part in today's proceedings have just been indefinitely suspended from PGA events, whether they've resigned or not.

[Rosscow]

I'm enjoying it! Fast paced, loads of action. 15 holes to play!

[Challo]

Andy 308GTB said:

Rosscow said:

I don't get it to be honest, I think that golf is getting bullied here.

The DP World Tour has a Race to Dubai for crying out loud - I'm sure that Dubai isn't far behind the likes of Saudi Arabia if you scratch beneath the glass and marble surface.

The WGC has a competition in China, another country with questionable human rights.

Over 700 people have died from shootings in the US since that school tragedy a fortnight ago. 700! And the US also has capital punishment just like SA.

F1 doesn't get this much bad press despite having a race in Saudi Arabia.

And let's not even mention the football, which is quietly brushed under the carpet by millions!

Of course they're it for the money but can you really blame them?

Edited by Rosscow on Thursday 9th June 10:25

I think the splintering of top level golf is unfortunate but inevitable - it's happened in many sports over the years.
I certainly don't blame the players for chasing the money but some honesty would be appreciated though!
Objecting to this initiative on the basis of it being Saudi money is laughable and hypocritical.

The players have been criticising the PGA for sometime now - saying that the PGA are sitting on a huge pile of cash & making large charitable donations. But the players think that they are the 'show' and should getting a bigger slice of the pie. As an aside, it was mentioned on the recent Sky Golf Podcast (Robert Lee lost it a bit) that the PGA provide pensions for the players,which are very generous.

I think the biggest problem is the LIV trying to skim off the top players. Which would devalue the PGA Tour. Understandably the PGA are defending their position.

I'm not sure what the LIV end game is. I think they are looking to extend to 14 tournaments a year - which with the Opens and the Masters would probably be enough for most professionals (?). But I can't see the current format persisting - despite DJ et al saying how exciting it is .
If they want to replace the PGA they should do as Matthew Southgate suggested and set up a funded Q-School and start drawing in the new talent. It would take 5 years but after that they would have the bulk of the top players (look at the PGA Tour, how many of the current winners did you know of 5 years ago?)

It would be refreshing for someone to come out and say yep im doing it for the cash. I think DJ' Agent said the following statement “Dustin has been contemplating the opportunity off-and-on for the past couple of years. Ultimately, he decided it was in his and his family’s best interest to pursue it" which reading between the lines is i want the money.

Does anyone know how much the PGA put back into grass roots golf? Does it provide funding for kids to start the game, or golf clubs to provide kit for them to use?

It would be interesting to see how this progresses from a business standpoint. I know the Saudi's have tons of cash, but surely they don't want to keep pumping money into it. Are they hoping that sponsors come on board and be able to pay the players?

[theguvernor15]

I think handicaps for a lot are vanity.
I play with a guy who plays off about 3, he won't put in a card unless it's in a club competition, whether that be a championship or the weekly stableford.
His views are that it's not a real round unless it's a competition.

Whereas my usual playing partners & I will generally always put a card in where possible when we play 18.

I would rather get an accurate representation of my playing ability, one of my playing partners is on a very high handicap, so he wants to keep pumping cards in with the hope of getting his down to a more respectable number

[Blackpuddin]

Live LIV stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56uR9fpK4Q
Coverage is wobbly and low-res (on my screen anyway), and the ever-present Vegas-style leaderboard is very distracting. Not seen any attempt yet to explain who's in what team. Mickelson looks like he's been sleeping under a flyover on a sheet of damp cardboard.

Edited by Blackpuddin on Thursday 9th June 15:20

[sxmwht]

How annoying is that fking subscribe button flashing in the corner?!