The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)

[biggbn]

Lee Jones Jnr said:

biggbn said:

I don't know if he has bottled it but he has been the sticking point for sure, and yes, history will remember it that way and his legacy will suffer because of it. I think he is all about the money and hang the legacy. I think he beats Usyk and AJ but we may never know and it becomes one of history's what ifs? Shame, I just wish he'd be honest. I wouldn't hold it against any fighter of they turned round and said 'look, I'm financially secure, and I just don't need this anymore. I can't out myself through the training anymore, I just don't want to', but he hasn't, he has preeened and postured and led everyone a merry dance, and in doing so, made fans like me think he did the same v AJ when it was proposed. st or get off the pot. Just don't keep mouthing off

Neither Fury nor Joshua are leaving behind a ‘legacy’ nor really being particularly remembered in boxing history. The last ‘legacy’ heavies are Lennox and Wlad.

I'm talking about their personal legacies. To be fair, it's kinda easy to pick holes in anyone's 'legacy', Lewis beat an old, shot Tyson and I say that with the benefit of hindsight, not something Lewis had the luxury of. He never fought a peak Holyfield. Bowe side stepped him and his best performances were against Vitali in a fight he was losing and Bruno in a fight he was losing. He walloped Ruddock which was his break out for me, and had wars with Briggs and Mercer....he also fought a lot of fighters Fury or AJ would be criticised for fighting!! But, that's the way it's always been. I think the Ali generation were the only ones that fought each other at their peaks, as did Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Hagler. Sometimes time just messes things up

[carlo996]

Lee Jones Jnr said:

Dunno, why has he?

Unless you know him personally I don’t think you can be sure either way. It’s s bit like Usyk suddenly becoming the most feared heavyweight…can all turn around very quickly

[tuscaneer]

Lomachenko v Haney just been confirmed for may 20th.

[lord trumpton]

tuscaneer said:

Lomachenko v Haney just been confirmed for may 20th.

ooof that'll be a cracker.

[tuscaneer]

lord trumpton said:

tuscaneer said:

Lomachenko v Haney just been confirmed for may 20th.

ooof that'll be a cracker.

fking great fight mate

[Unreal]

It could be great but I worry it might be too much of a chess match. Certainly both of them will be facing their most skilled opponent.

[lord trumpton]

tuscaneer said:

lord trumpton said:

tuscaneer said:

Lomachenko v Haney just been confirmed for may 20th.

ooof that'll be a cracker.

fking great fight mate

A Masters last hurrah or changing of the guard?

Haney is peaking nicely but sadly Loma is fighting father time at 35 as well as the younger lion.

[Pugaris]

Looking forward to that fight but I can see it being a disappointing spectacle.

Predicting a wide Haney victory

[Lee Jones Jnr]

biggbn said:

I'm talking about their personal legacies. To be fair, it's kinda easy to pick holes in anyone's 'legacy', Lewis beat an old, shot Tyson and I say that with the benefit of hindsight, not something Lewis had the luxury of. He never fought a peak Holyfield. Bowe side stepped him and his best performances were against Vitali in a fight he was losing and Bruno in a fight he was losing. He walloped Ruddock which was his break out for me, and had wars with Briggs and Mercer....he also fought a lot of fighters Fury or AJ would be criticised for fighting!! But, that's the way it's always been. I think the Ali generation were the only ones that fought each other at their peaks, as did Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Hagler. Sometimes time just messes things up

I don't really know what you mean then, what personal legacies?
Lewis is older than Tyson so age doesn't play a part really, however I view Lennox peak like a bonfire and Tysons like a firework.
When would you say was peak Holyfield? At what stage of medication? I think that was as close to a peak v peak as anyone really?
He performed dreadfully against Vitali, he was heavy (heaviest?) and whilst at the time I was a young man outraged by the 'robbery' it was absolutely right to stop the contest and whilst it must still burn Vitali, retiring rather than rematch was the right thing to do once he knew it wasn't there anymore. The Bruno win was a good contest in awkward circumstances for them both and whilst he may have been behind before he won, he did win and decisively.
I think it's difficult to be too critical of Lewis record. He boxed almost everyone, Bowe did what he did and Lennox can't be blamed. The stand out that I would have liked to see was Lennox v Wlad.
Whilst I don't like either of them, Joshua has a much stranger record than Fury.

[fridaypassion]

Legacy is subjective of course but in simple terms the first thing that springs to mind when you think of a boxer...

Usyk = skill
AJ = heart
Joyce = granite
Fury = clown

Our kids in the future will have a couple of entertaining wilder fights to watch on YouTube but other than that there's just not much there with Fury. If Fury does have a legacy in the sport it's really only his ability to sell tickets. He's a master of the showbiz side of things but even that appears to be backfiring at the moment. There's nowhere for him to go now if he ducks Usyk it's another year of inactivity while they mess about trying to make an AJ fight... Which will probably fall out of bed again.

The other fighters in the division should come together for a super series and exclude Fury from it. He can take on the winner because of course he'll fight anyone anywhere he's a fighting man you know!

[fridaypassion]

Meanwhile I think we need to talk about Frank..... Is he feeling ok?

[carlo996]

fridaypassion said:

Legacy is subjective of course but in simple terms the first thing that springs to mind when you think of a boxer...

Usyk = skill
AJ = heart
Joyce = granite
Fury = clown

Our kids in the future will have a couple of entertaining wilder fights to watch on YouTube but other than that there's just not much there with Fury. If Fury does have a legacy in the sport it's really only his ability to sell tickets. He's a master of the showbiz side of things but even that appears to be backfiring at the moment. There's nowhere for him to go now if he ducks Usyk it's another year of inactivity while they mess about trying to make an AJ fight... Which will probably fall out of bed again.

The other fighters in the division should come together for a super series and exclude Fury from it. He can take on the winner because of course he'll fight anyone anywhere he's a fighting man you know!

And after they’ve watched the wilder fights they can watch Ruiz knock AJ (heart) out, then Usyk outbox someone with a 4 inch reach advantage. Of course the culmination of the viewing will end with enjoying AJ break into his ‘This is your life’ rant… what I’ll remember about AJ is a boxer who prioritised money and got found out. I hope Franklin retires him, but it’s unlikely. Once this sideshow is done hopefully Fury can get a fight made, it’s all everyone wants to see.

Usyk = just needs to walk on water apparently
AJ = show pony
Joyce = in danger of being the forgotten man
Fury = the man everyone hates, but nobody can beat

[Lee Jones Jnr]

carlo996 said:

And after they’ve watched the wilder fights they can watch Ruiz knock AJ (heart) out, then Usyk outbox someone with a 4 inch reach advantage. Of course the culmination of the viewing will end with enjoying AJ break into his ‘This is your life’ rant… what I’ll remember about AJ is a boxer who prioritised money and got found out. I hope Franklin retires him, but it’s unlikely. Once this sideshow is done hopefully Fury can get a fight made, it’s all everyone wants to see.

Usyk = just needs to walk on water apparently
AJ = show pony
Joyce = in danger of being the forgotten man
Fury = the man everyone hates, but nobody can beat

Usyk and Joyce are doing what they can
Joshua, like him or not (not for me) has a great record and has done well
Fury, well I hate him but plenty of people seem to like him. We don’t know who can beat him due to his refusal to fight. I suppose we know that McDermott can beat him in a US ring and Wilder can beat him in a UK one.

[tuscaneer]

carlo996 said:

I am sure it will happen.

I am also sure Fury will beat Usyk. I don't watch boxing for the character references, it's two people knocking st out of each other. That's it.

this post right here kind of nullifies anything you've got say about any of the boxers in question fella

[biggbn]

Lee Jones Jnr said:

biggbn said:

I'm talking about their personal legacies. To be fair, it's kinda easy to pick holes in anyone's 'legacy', Lewis beat an old, shot Tyson and I say that with the benefit of hindsight, not something Lewis had the luxury of. He never fought a peak Holyfield. Bowe side stepped him and his best performances were against Vitali in a fight he was losing and Bruno in a fight he was losing. He walloped Ruddock which was his break out for me, and had wars with Briggs and Mercer....he also fought a lot of fighters Fury or AJ would be criticised for fighting!! But, that's the way it's always been. I think the Ali generation were the only ones that fought each other at their peaks, as did Leonard, Hearns, Duran and Hagler. Sometimes time just messes things up

I don't really know what you mean then, what personal legacies?
Lewis is older than Tyson so age doesn't play a part really, however I view Lennox peak like a bonfire and Tysons like a firework.
When would you say was peak Holyfield? At what stage of medication? I think that was as close to a peak v peak as anyone really?
He performed dreadfully against Vitali, he was heavy (heaviest?) and whilst at the time I was a young man outraged by the 'robbery' it was absolutely right to stop the contest and whilst it must still burn Vitali, retiring rather than rematch was the right thing to do once he knew it wasn't there anymore. The Bruno win was a good contest in awkward circumstances for them both and whilst he may have been behind before he won, he did win and decisively.
I think it's difficult to be too critical of Lewis record. He boxed almost everyone, Bowe did what he did and Lennox can't be blamed. The stand out that I would have liked to see was Lennox v Wlad.
Whilst I don't like either of them, Joshua has a much stranger record than Fury.

Lewis is older than Tyson but your bang on in your analogy, Tyson's firework had long since fizzled out when they fought. Your point re Holyfield is a fair one, for me the first two fights with Bowe were 'peak' Holyfield and yes, he lost one of them, but the guy was an absolute animal. I remember Tyson saying that if you lined up every Heavyweight champ in history the one guy they woukd pick not to fight wound be Evander cos he never goes away. Engine, chin, heart, some package. I felt he was a different fighter by the time he fought Leeis, half a beat slower and perhaps not as invested in the winning is all ethos as he had been, even in training. He was coming to the end of a whole lot of wars, he had a lot of miles on his clock, when he fought Lewis.

For me, Lewis remains an enigma, for me time robbed him of definitive performances, he never had a Bowe, or a Frazier if you know what i mean, but he cleaned house in his division and its not his fault that time meant he was kinda stuck in the middle...Great fighter, beat everyone he faced, can't argue with that.

[fridaypassion]

carlo996 said:

And after they’ve watched the wilder fights they can watch Ruiz knock AJ (heart) out, then Usyk outbox someone with a 4 inch reach advantage. Of course the culmination of the viewing will end with enjoying AJ break into his ‘This is your life’ rant… what I’ll remember about AJ is a boxer who prioritised money and got found out. I hope Franklin retires him, but it’s unlikely. Once this sideshow is done hopefully Fury can get a fight made, it’s all everyone wants to see.

Usyk = just needs to walk on water apparently
AJ = show pony
Joyce = in danger of being the forgotten man
Fury = the man everyone hates, but nobody can beat

The AJ rant was very strange. Real emotion though!

I think a lot of us would like to see Fury fight and take the top fights on. He is talented and he's good to watch. His inside game is technically brilliant and a joy to watch. The problem a lot of us have with Fury is that he's firing his mouth off all the time wittering on about being the best but he has not proven it. He's going with the theory of repeating something so often it becomes true. He needs to take on the best to be the best and well...just look at his record!

The bottom line is that he has embarrassed himself this last 2-3 years first with AJ then with Usyk and the inexplicable decision to fight Derek Chisora at this point in his career. I've said it often enough he's a net loss to the sport at the moment and the sooner he either fights the top guys or retires the better. He is extremely damaging for the sport at the moment he isn't the only one but he's the worst example of the duckers not fighting the best.

As you correctly point out Joe Joyce is one of the ones suffering as Fury has managed to tie up the division pissing about with Wilder/Walllin/Chisora/Whyte when there should have been fights with Usyk/AJ/Joyce being made. Big Joe should have fought them all by now!

[272BHP]

One thing is for sure is that we will all know more in 2 weeks time with the performances of both AJ and Joyce.

If Fury does not want to fight Usyk then he will probably have to fight one of the above.

No way either Hearn or Warren will accept 30% though.

[NuckyThompson]

AJ - the word that springs to mind is 'manufactured' the 'stay humble' AJ wasn't the real AJ it was the SKY and matchroom produced AJ.

Potentially had their been a Bruno type fighter around during AJ'S Rise he may well have been allowed to himself more and develop the persona that more closely resembled his own, he'd likely have been portrayed/marketed as more of a villain imo.

as for Fury im a fan but i think he's to blame for the Usyk fight not being made for next month and it simply lies with him not being in training and thus not giving himself the time to get a 12 week camp in. I did half think he was bluffing only starting training in the middle of March when he'd actually already been 6 weeks into camp but it looks like he'd been faffing about during that time instead,

[fridaypassion]

AJ allows himself too many influences. The guy that even broached the subject of trying to outbox Usyk I mean who the hell got that in his ear? If you look back to some of his earlier pre Ruiz fights he's a far more confident aggressive fighter thats what we need to see back. AJs best game is to blast the opponent out of there before they get to his chin.

[carlo996]

fridaypassion said:

AJ allows himself too many influences. The guy that even broached the subject of trying to outbox Usyk I mean who the hell got that in his ear? If you look back to some of his earlier pre Ruiz fights he's a far more confident aggressive fighter thats what we need to see back. AJs best game is to blast the opponent out of there before they get to his chin.

Agreed. But ever since getting chinned by Ruiz he’s adopted a really negative style, which invites people in. Did you see the interview on breakfast TV…he really doesn’t seem that focused on boxing? Must be hard though, more money than he knows what to do with but still talking about regaling the world title. Hunger games it’s not.