The **BOXING** thread (Vol 4)
Discussion
Pugaris said:
He does get hit quite a lot though. Dubois caught him with some pretty big right hands, Takam was landing overhand rights basically at will and Hammer caught him plenty, too. What amazes me is how totally unperturbed by taking big shots he is. I can't imagine that will continue to be the case when he gets in the ring with top-level fighters with very heavy hands but who knows? Dubois and Takam are hardly known for their pillow fists.
Certainly he gets hit, that’s how we all know that he can take a shot, I meant that more as part of a more general response to the largely accepted slow Joe perception.Not likely to be good for him just walking people down and accepting the shots regardless.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Pugaris said:
He does get hit quite a lot though. Dubois caught him with some pretty big right hands, Takam was landing overhand rights basically at will and Hammer caught him plenty, too. What amazes me is how totally unperturbed by taking big shots he is. I can't imagine that will continue to be the case when he gets in the ring with top-level fighters with very heavy hands but who knows? Dubois and Takam are hardly known for their pillow fists.
Certainly he gets hit, that’s how we all know that he can take a shot, I meant that more as part of a more general response to the largely accepted slow Joe perception.Not likely to be good for him just walking people down and accepting the shots regardless.
biggbn said:
Big John Fury says he is the hardest man in boxing and every, every sparring partner says he is an absolute nightmare. You watch him and think, I got this, then you get in the ring and every punch hurts. Big fan, think he'd KO AJ and Wilder, seriously..
Awww imagine making a perfectly good point but spoiling by starting with ‘Big John Fury says…’JJ is a big strong lump with a good engine who can walk through a few big shots. He might not be brilliant at anything in particular but he has ‘very good’ in a lot of columns and it all adds up.
He likely won’t ever be what he perhaps could have been in terms of pro achievements and money if he hadn’t hung around for that silver medal but he’s already done better than most ever manage.
Lee Jones Jnr said:
biggbn said:
Big John Fury says he is the hardest man in boxing and every, every sparring partner says he is an absolute nightmare. You watch him and think, I got this, then you get in the ring and every punch hurts. Big fan, think he'd KO AJ and Wilder, seriously..
Awww imagine making a perfectly good point but spoiling by starting with ‘Big John Fury says…’JJ is a big strong lump with a good engine who can walk through a few big shots. He might not be brilliant at anything in particular but he has ‘very good’ in a lot of columns and it all adds up.
He likely won’t ever be what he perhaps could have been in terms of pro achievements and money if he hadn’t hung around for that silver medal but he’s already done better than most ever manage.
kin good argument....bonkers result from australia over the weekend... briedis LOST a points decision to unheralded jai opetaia... i honestly hadn't seen anyone other than usyk who could hold a candle to briedis i really didn't... by all accounts he had his jaw broken and still toughed it out...
be interesting to see what's next for both men but richard riakporhe is in the hot seat to have a crack at the ibf belt opetaia now holds... pretty sure briedis will want the rematch though...
be interesting to see what's next for both men but richard riakporhe is in the hot seat to have a crack at the ibf belt opetaia now holds... pretty sure briedis will want the rematch though...
OK, so just watched full Joyce fight. Wow, he took way to many punches but he seems to have that arrogance that if he is hit and it doesn't faze him he just goes into marauder mode. He did not fight that way against Dubois, much more safety minded yet he still took a few full on punches from him without blinking. I reckon him v Wilder would be an absolute war and some might think this ridiculous, but of he fights in that constant pressure marauding style against AJ I think he stops him and quite early. AJ does not like that style of fighter and he is a big, big man. Wilder could KO him but I don't think he'd fight Wilder that way. Wow, it's really interesting just now. I think Dubois is the real deal and I think history will show Joe's win over him as pretty special, but who knows? The kid has absolutely horrible attributes and to walk through respected gatekeepers like Takam and Hanner like that with that unshakeable arrogance and give Dubois a jabbing lesson before busting him up, he's a dangerous dude, no wonder his phone doesn't ring....
....that said, I'd not be surprised to see him starched at some point if he continues with the arrogant chin first style and I hope he has the boxing brain to realise he won't always get away with it.
....that said, I'd not be surprised to see him starched at some point if he continues with the arrogant chin first style and I hope he has the boxing brain to realise he won't always get away with it.
Honestly see Joyce vs AJ the opposite way, although I wouldn't be shocked to be wrong. Joyce is obviously easy to hit and I don't care how good his chin is, if he gives AJ opportunities at mid-range like he's done with Hammer and Takam (and even Joyce) AJ will land big combinations every round and he'll stop him. There's always a slim chance he's got the greatest chin in history in which case I'd be wrong.
AJ should be able to land his jab easily and I think evade Joyce's for the most part, he'd get into the mid-range a lot and be able to counter off Joyce, that's AJ's absolute bread and butter.
AJ should be able to land his jab easily and I think evade Joyce's for the most part, he'd get into the mid-range a lot and be able to counter off Joyce, that's AJ's absolute bread and butter.
Pugaris said:
Honestly see Joyce vs AJ the opposite way, although I wouldn't be shocked to be wrong. Joyce is obviously easy to hit and I don't care how good his chin is, if he gives AJ opportunities at mid-range like he's done with Hammer and Takam (and even Joyce) AJ will land big combinations every round and he'll stop him. There's always a slim chance he's got the greatest chin in history in which case I'd be wrong.
AJ should be able to land his jab easily and I think evade Joyce's for the most part, he'd get into the mid-range a lot and be able to counter off Joyce, that's AJ's absolute bread and butter.
I can see that too, but AJ likes to fight at his own pace and Joe forces a rather uncomfortable one whilst, by all accounts, throwing punches that look like nothing but are incredibly hurtful. I'm reminded of Liston's trainer who when asked how hard Sonny hit simply replied 'If Charles can touch you, he can hurt you'. Everyone who has fought or sparred him says the same. AJ has a much better skill set but I'm not sure his mind set could stand up to this impassive marauding style. Exciting times. AJ should be able to land his jab easily and I think evade Joyce's for the most part, he'd get into the mid-range a lot and be able to counter off Joyce, that's AJ's absolute bread and butter.
...as I said though, I'd not be surprised to hear Joe gets knocked out by any of the divisions big hitters, he needs to develop a more effective defence than simply getting hit!!
Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 5th July 07:31
Joyce is certainly the wildcard in the division. I'd pay to see him fight any of the top 4. I think AJ or Wilder would be the most exciting fight. I think Fury and Uysk would have enough to grind him down over 12 rounds.
It's at times like this I find boxing so frustrating as we know that politics will get in the way of the best matchmaking
It's at times like this I find boxing so frustrating as we know that politics will get in the way of the best matchmaking
I strongly suspect the top guys don't want to fight JJ which is why he's been in the wilderness so long. Would agree JJ V Wilder or AJ would be very good fights great mix of styles in those potential fights.
100% he did take far too many punches you don't want to be doing that against AJ.
100% he did take far too many punches you don't want to be doing that against AJ.
ThisInJapanese said:
Joyce is certainly the wildcard in the division. I'd pay to see him fight any of the top 4. I think AJ or Wilder would be the most exciting fight. I think Fury and Uysk would have enough to grind him down over 12 rounds.
It's at times like this I find boxing so frustrating as we know that politics will get in the way of the best matchmaking
I'm not sure Joyce's predicament in this instance relates mainly to politics.It's at times like this I find boxing so frustrating as we know that politics will get in the way of the best matchmaking
Wilder has been pretty much retired (up to very, very recently). Joshua is fighting Usyk next month. Fury has just fought Whyte. Assuming all goes well, Joshua and Fury are lining up one of the biggest fights in heavyweight history, so they are busy.
The Parker fight not happening is probably politics (or money related), in that Parker saw a better long term opportunity on Sky now they are in the process of losing AJ.
And the next tier down of heavyweights (e.g. Michael Hunter, Bakole, Otto Wallin, Tony Yoka etc) are unlikely to generate Joyce the kind of money he will need to earn at this stage of his career. So he doesn't have many options other than playing a waiting game at the moment until Fury, Joshua and Usyk have resolved things between each other.
biggbn said:
...as I said though, I'd not be surprised to hear Joe gets knocked out by any of the divisions big hitters, he needs to develop a more effective defence than simply getting hit!!
...
And he isn't likely to radically transform his defensive skills at this stage of his career, which is probably the reason Dubois' team thought it was a fight worth taking. ...
I think Joyce looks susceptible to a body shot - whilst so far he sees to have a granite chin, he has been hit with a couple of body shots and they seemed to have a significant effect.
EddieSteadyGo said:
biggbn said:
...as I said though, I'd not be surprised to hear Joe gets knocked out by any of the divisions big hitters, he needs to develop a more effective defence than simply getting hit!!
...
And he isn't likely to radically transform his defensive skills at this stage of his career, which is probably the reason Dubois' team thought it was a fight worth taking. ...
I think Joyce looks susceptible to a body shot - whilst so far he sees to have a granite chin, he has been hit with a couple of body shots and they seemed to have a significant effect.
EddieSteadyGo said:
I'm not sure Joyce's predicament in this instance relates mainly to politics.
Wilder has been pretty much retired (up to very, very recently). Joshua is fighting Usyk next month. Fury has just fought Whyte. Assuming all goes well, Joshua and Fury are lining up one of the biggest fights in heavyweight history, so they are busy.
The Parker fight not happening is probably politics (or money related), in that Parker saw a better long term opportunity on Sky now they are in the process of losing AJ.
And the next tier down of heavyweights (e.g. Michael Hunter, Bakole, Otto Wallin, Tony Yoka etc) are unlikely to generate Joyce the kind of money he will need to earn at this stage of his career. So he doesn't have many options other than playing a waiting game at the moment until Fury, Joshua and Usyk have resolved things between each other.
True, point well made. You know what I mean though, the Parker fight would have been a good one. Wilder has been pretty much retired (up to very, very recently). Joshua is fighting Usyk next month. Fury has just fought Whyte. Assuming all goes well, Joshua and Fury are lining up one of the biggest fights in heavyweight history, so they are busy.
The Parker fight not happening is probably politics (or money related), in that Parker saw a better long term opportunity on Sky now they are in the process of losing AJ.
And the next tier down of heavyweights (e.g. Michael Hunter, Bakole, Otto Wallin, Tony Yoka etc) are unlikely to generate Joyce the kind of money he will need to earn at this stage of his career. So he doesn't have many options other than playing a waiting game at the moment until Fury, Joshua and Usyk have resolved things between each other.
Whyte vs Joyce would be a good watch in the interim, I'm not sure who Frank Warren has in mind when he said he's got a fight lined up in September.
ThisInJapanese said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
I'm not sure Joyce's predicament in this instance relates mainly to politics.
Wilder has been pretty much retired (up to very, very recently). Joshua is fighting Usyk next month. Fury has just fought Whyte. Assuming all goes well, Joshua and Fury are lining up one of the biggest fights in heavyweight history, so they are busy.
The Parker fight not happening is probably politics (or money related), in that Parker saw a better long term opportunity on Sky now they are in the process of losing AJ.
And the next tier down of heavyweights (e.g. Michael Hunter, Bakole, Otto Wallin, Tony Yoka etc) are unlikely to generate Joyce the kind of money he will need to earn at this stage of his career. So he doesn't have many options other than playing a waiting game at the moment until Fury, Joshua and Usyk have resolved things between each other.
True, point well made. You know what I mean though, the Parker fight would have been a good one. Wilder has been pretty much retired (up to very, very recently). Joshua is fighting Usyk next month. Fury has just fought Whyte. Assuming all goes well, Joshua and Fury are lining up one of the biggest fights in heavyweight history, so they are busy.
The Parker fight not happening is probably politics (or money related), in that Parker saw a better long term opportunity on Sky now they are in the process of losing AJ.
And the next tier down of heavyweights (e.g. Michael Hunter, Bakole, Otto Wallin, Tony Yoka etc) are unlikely to generate Joyce the kind of money he will need to earn at this stage of his career. So he doesn't have many options other than playing a waiting game at the moment until Fury, Joshua and Usyk have resolved things between each other.
Whyte vs Joyce would be a good watch in the interim, I'm not sure who Frank Warren has in mind when he said he's got a fight lined up in September.
Edited by biggbn on Tuesday 5th July 08:51
re the joe joyce thing... i guess i'm in the minority here but i just don't see him being this world beater.... i know how gruelling it is to fight him, i've spoken first hand to guys who have done many,many rounds with him....and by all accounts (on top of what we have all seen watching him fight) he IS a relentless come forward iron chinned leviathan.... but that style hasn't got longevity written on it and using your head as a primary method of defence is only going to carry you so far before cracks start to appear and your punch resistance starts to fail you.
fast feet and a nice punch arsenal is the way to beat joyce..not knock him out, just keep piling up the points and staying agile... usyk (as he's already shown) and fury have both in spades
fast feet and a nice punch arsenal is the way to beat joyce..not knock him out, just keep piling up the points and staying agile... usyk (as he's already shown) and fury have both in spades
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