Why not just remove gender restrictions on sport
Discussion
A500leroy said:
ive always thought it should be mixed, you dont have a womens and mens office in the real world afterall.
My kids play waterpolo, and teams are mixed up to U19s. It makes for some good matches.I really liked the mixed athletics events (4x100 and 4x400 mixed teams) when they did those at the world championships. An extra element of uncertainty.
Unreal said:
It's a complex subject and I don't envy the authorities or the athletes.
The argument that we accept that physical attributes confer advantages (swimmers' big feet, double joints, etc) is compelling, so it gets tricky when we won't accept something like very high but natural testosterone levels in a woman.
However, we have weight classes in boxing, so the biggest and strongest can only compete within a certain range, which is why I think multiple categories are the only acceptable way out of this.
I don't know much about Semanya but I thought she also had an atypical genetic gender makeup as well as high testosterone levels, meaning the 'female' definition isn't straightforward. Happy to be corrected.
I find it so bizarre that people think this is complex.The argument that we accept that physical attributes confer advantages (swimmers' big feet, double joints, etc) is compelling, so it gets tricky when we won't accept something like very high but natural testosterone levels in a woman.
However, we have weight classes in boxing, so the biggest and strongest can only compete within a certain range, which is why I think multiple categories are the only acceptable way out of this.
I don't know much about Semanya but I thought she also had an atypical genetic gender makeup as well as high testosterone levels, meaning the 'female' definition isn't straightforward. Happy to be corrected.
People born male have unbelievable advantages over females.
The only real argument is "it hasn't happened yet" - but it will if we carry on.
Laurel Hubbard didn't win gold, but they were in their mid 40s - and basically transitioned and went from being inactive to being top 3 in the world in a field dominated by people in their 20s. If they'd have done it earlier, they'd have absolutely dominated the sport - simply for being born male.
Transitioning is rising. The opinion of 'being the gender you identify as' is rising. If sport don't stamp it out, women's sport will be dominated by people born male.
The swimmer - to anyones naked eye, it's a huge male athlete completing against females and it's clearly not fair.
Transitioning is fine and should be accepted - but simply needs to be caviated that if you transition, there are biological reasons why you still have a male body and you can't compete against women.
Senyema is a medical issue, incredibly rare and should be judged case by case - and kept nowhere the debate of men transitioning and competing.
Edited by RobbieTheTruth on Monday 4th April 14:39
untakenname said:
There would be no females in the top hundred of any sport.
Quite obviously this.The Olympics - apart from very few events, would be a male-only competition.
Tennis, Golf, Rugby, Football, Cycling - would all be male only.
The issue of gender identification needs resolving in sport, but just removing a category isn't the answer.
Muzzer79 said:
untakenname said:
There would be no females in the top hundred of any sport.
Quite obviously this.The Olympics - apart from very few events, would be a male-only competition.
Tennis, Golf, Rugby, Football, Cycling - would all be male only.
The issue of gender identification needs resolving in sport, but just removing a category isn't the answer.
RobbieTheTruth said:
Muzzer79 said:
untakenname said:
There would be no females in the top hundred of any sport.
Quite obviously this.The Olympics - apart from very few events, would be a male-only competition.
Tennis, Golf, Rugby, Football, Cycling - would all be male only.
The issue of gender identification needs resolving in sport, but just removing a category isn't the answer.
That still leaves an issue about intersex people but that could be dealt with separately.
RobbieTheTruth said:
Literally the only sane resolution is "born male? Can't compete in female category".
an interesting read...https://unherd.com/thepost/emily-bridges-has-no-pl...
Actually Debbie Hayton has quite a few interesting views on this subject (as you might imagine)
DodgyGeezer said:
RobbieTheTruth said:
Literally the only sane resolution is "born male? Can't compete in female category".
an interesting read...https://unherd.com/thepost/emily-bridges-has-no-pl...
Actually Debbie Hayton has quite a few interesting views on this subject (as you might imagine)
"But her entry to the race has been invalidated, which I think is a pity. Her destruction of the Olympic champion Laura Kenny would have been such a great video to play to people who claim trans women are woman."
Someone that doesn't think that transwomen should compete in female events is disappointed when one isn't allowed to.
That argument really isn’t going to work for many of any sports is it. Women wouldn’t be selected over men and discriminated against just because the men are bigger, stronger, faster…
Horse racing (if that’s a sport) has it. Nothing stopping women racing and beating the men both at jokey level and horse level.
Horse racing (if that’s a sport) has it. Nothing stopping women racing and beating the men both at jokey level and horse level.
Randy Winkman said:
I like that article though I one of the comments lead me to the fact that she is not being allowed to compete. That very comment did however get me a little vexed:
"But her entry to the race has been invalidated, which I think is a pity. Her destruction of the Olympic champion Laura Kenny would have been such a great video to play to people who claim trans women are woman."
Someone that doesn't think that transwomen should compete in female events is disappointed when one isn't allowed to.
You've got the context wrong and misunderstood the quote. It IS a pity the man(woman) wasn't allowed to race against Kenny, as it would have proved the unfair competition hypothesis. But it isn't really needed as every sane person recognises it as unfair anyway. Clearer?"But her entry to the race has been invalidated, which I think is a pity. Her destruction of the Olympic champion Laura Kenny would have been such a great video to play to people who claim trans women are woman."
Someone that doesn't think that transwomen should compete in female events is disappointed when one isn't allowed to.
popeyewhite said:
Randy Winkman said:
I like that article though I one of the comments lead me to the fact that she is not being allowed to compete. That very comment did however get me a little vexed:
"But her entry to the race has been invalidated, which I think is a pity. Her destruction of the Olympic champion Laura Kenny would have been such a great video to play to people who claim trans women are woman."
Someone that doesn't think that transwomen should compete in female events is disappointed when one isn't allowed to.
You've got the context wrong and misunderstood the quote. It IS a pity the man(woman) wasn't allowed to race against Kenny, as it would have proved the unfair competition hypothesis. But it isn't really needed as every sane person recognises it as unfair anyway. Clearer?"But her entry to the race has been invalidated, which I think is a pity. Her destruction of the Olympic champion Laura Kenny would have been such a great video to play to people who claim trans women are woman."
Someone that doesn't think that transwomen should compete in female events is disappointed when one isn't allowed to.
popeyewhite said:
Randy Winkman said:
I think I do get it. I just wonder why someone thinks that seeing that point being proved is more important than getting what they think is right in the first place.
HmmmAnyway, we know how fast she is; in February she won a men's points race at the British Universities Championships in Glasgow. Why do we need to see her beat Laura Kenny?
Zarco said:
Dumbest thread of the week?
Certainly not helped by intellectual additions such as this. For the record, as a few have realised this was not a serious comment on what should happen, more to highlight the issues in sports and how challenging it becomes.
As someone has said, should a lady who was born with longer legs be allowed to do the high jump where her genetic makeup gives her an unfair advantage Vs a women who has extra testosterone due to her genetics who then can't compete.
A born male who has always felt female but loves football so much can't play women's football, even if their biology makes them a similar weight and size as a female? Such a person would have to choose between living the gender they believe they should or playing the sport they love.
I really don't know what the answer should be. Every one will be challenged by someone. Many work places are pushing hard to create cultures in which people no matter their feelings can feel comfortable at work, yet in sports many people can't.
a_dreamer said:
Zarco said:
Dumbest thread of the week?
Certainly not helped by intellectual additions such as this. For the record, as a few have realised this was not a serious comment on what should happen, more to highlight the issues in sports and how challenging it becomes.
As someone has said, should a lady who was born with longer legs be allowed to do the high jump where her genetic makeup gives her an unfair advantage Vs a women who has extra testosterone due to her genetics who then can't compete.
A born male who has always felt female but loves football so much can't play women's football, even if their biology makes them a similar weight and size as a female? Such a person would have to choose between living the gender they believe they should or playing the sport they love.
I really don't know what the answer should be. Every one will be challenged by someone. Many work places are pushing hard to create cultures in which people no matter their feelings can feel comfortable at work, yet in sports many people can't.
a_dreamer said:
Zarco said:
Dumbest thread of the week?
Certainly not helped by intellectual additions such as this. For the record, as a few have realised this was not a serious comment on what should happen, more to highlight the issues in sports and how challenging it becomes.
As someone has said, should a lady who was born with longer legs be allowed to do the high jump where her genetic makeup gives her an unfair advantage Vs a women who has extra testosterone due to her genetics who then can't compete.
A born male who has always felt female but loves football so much can't play women's football, even if their biology makes them a similar weight and size as a female? Such a person would have to choose between living the gender they believe they should or playing the sport they love.
I really don't know what the answer should be. Every one will be challenged by someone. Many work places are pushing hard to create cultures in which people no matter their feelings can feel comfortable at work, yet in sports many people can't.
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