Ryan Shawcross.....villain or unfortunate fall guy?

[anonymous-user]

Mattygooner said:

This is not the point, the point Arsene and Fab were making is that this has happened three times in the last four seasons. They are attacking the way teams go out to intentionaly go in hard on Arsenal players becasue Arsenal don't like it. I do not think he went in with the intention of breaking his leg but he did go in with the intention of stopping him.

You have to understand why Arsenal are so upset, three players, young players who have potentially had their carears ended early becuase of the tactics used against them. These are not just miss timed challenged resulting in a player being out for a couple of weeks with bruising, this is both bones in their legs being broken.
.

so, Gallas on Davis at Bolton last month? was that a "mistimed challenge?

[Gun]

I'm a Gooner and I'm of the opinion it was a complete accident, just badly timed. This is what it looks like when you go out and intend to injure someone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzEGkmY-Vio Roy Keane really was scum!

[juice]

And this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuyw7zWgKOQ&fea...

[cotney]

pablo said:

and the pathetic whinging form wenger and the arsenal fans is just so petty. today i have read comments like "we are victimised", "it always happens to us", "teams adopt this they dont like it up em attitude towards arsenal and go in hard on us as they know our players are young and vulnerable" this, form the same supporters and managers who watched the bullying tactics of thugs like Keown and Viera on one Ruud van Nistelrooy. short memories and no sympahty i'm afraid...

So you are comparing a bunch of players jumping up and down around an opposition player to a 19 year old lad with a broken leg?

Get some perspective. I hate the way the media make massive issues out of trivial things in football, like people criticising Bridge for not shaking Terry's hand. Big deal, the bloke got the mother of his child pregnant, and arranged an abortion, fk me, he did well not chin the . But when it comes the serious things, like Shawcross for example, the media are happy to trot out the whole "not that type of player" malarky. Yet he has broken 2 legs, and was responsible for this:

http://www.twitvid.com/3BCE0

And hes only 22.

To be fair, that challenge on Ramsey wasn't intended to break bones clearly, but flying into challenges far too recklessly, he's obviously doing something wrong. You don't break another players legs every week? Yet this guy's broken 2 already and hes only 22??

[Matt19]

May I bring the following video to your attention from the Stoke vs Arsenal match. Please tell me which tackle is worse, a 50:50 which resulted in an unfortunate injury on Ramsey or this tackle by Fabregas which is clear intent to get the man and not the ball. Talk about Arsenal's complaints about players trying to purposely injure their team? What hypocrits!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJRlGKUM4Es

and with the tackle by Shawcross on Adebayor, Shawcross clearly gets a touch on the ball.

If an Arsenal player got tackled from behind like Pugh did by Fabregas do you think they would get straight back up, or would they roll around for 5 minutes and surround the ref demanding a card?

Fabregas didn't even get a yellow card for that tackle. Disgrace.

At least Fabio Capello can see a good young Centre back.

Edited by Matt19 on Monday 1st March 20:51

Edited by Matt19 on Monday 1st March 20:54

[Matt19]

Poor innocent Arsenal. There are always fouls committed on them where the player isn't even setting out to win the ball, purely to get at the man.

Arsenal could never be guilty of such acts, they are the true victim of such incidents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPDTivssKk

[bikerPaul]

pablo said:

yes it does matter. from the picture i have seen, ramsey was already looking at a aerious injury, his foot was at a good seventy degrees to his ankle. that shawcross came in hard only served to increase and exaggerate the injury. it doesnt make it right and it doesnt justify the tackle because i think it was an overly ohysical challenge in a part of the pitch where there is no such need for this sort of tackle but again, i dont think there was any intention to injury ramsey.

and the pathetic whinging form wenger and the arsenal fans is just so petty. today i have read comments like "we are victimised", "it always happens to us", "teams adopt this they dont like it up em attitude towards arsenal and go in hard on us as they know our players are young and vulnerable" this, form the same supporters and managers who watched the bullying tactics of thugs like Keown and Viera on one Ruud van Nistelrooy. short memories and no sympahty i'm afraid...

I am no physio/surgeon of sorts so will have to bow to your clearly superior knowledge of the anatomy of the human body.

So you are admitting that he came in hard then. Good. That was my point. I don't believe he was intending to maim the lad in anyway, but he was making sure that he was being stopped in his tracks. When you take that approach these things happen.

I don't want to start digging up the past or we will be here forever but the Keown incident at OT doesn't bear any resemblance. That was a totally unacceptable incident but doesn't compare to snapping someones leg in half.

[Mr Jenks]

Matt19 said:

Poor innocent Arsenal. There are always fouls committed on them where the player isn't even setting out to win the ball, purely to get at the man.

Arsenal could never be guilty of such acts, they are the true victim of such incidents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPDTivssKk

And to think that Winger saw the 50/50 tackle that has sadly seen a young player in hospital but never saw anything of the thuggish violent conduct of RVP, or Fabregas as mentioned earlier. Surprise surprise eh. I know that all teams will be victims and villains but look at reality Arsenal, you were unlucky here, not a victim of any immoral malicous act like percy

[Dave_ITR]

Shawcross is the unfortunate fall guy IMO.

[cotney]

Mr Jenks said:

Matt19 said:

Poor innocent Arsenal. There are always fouls committed on them where the player isn't even setting out to win the ball, purely to get at the man.

Arsenal could never be guilty of such acts, they are the true victim of such incidents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPDTivssKk

And to think that Winger saw the 50/50 tackle that has sadly seen a young player in hospital but never saw anything of the thuggish violent conduct of RVP, or Fabregas as mentioned earlier. Surprise surprise eh. I know that all teams will be victims and villains but look at reality Arsenal, you were unlucky here, not a victim of any immoral malicous act like percy

Both of you are missing the point. That red card for VP, whilst out of order and petulant, was never going to break any bones, or inflict serious injury. People need to get some perspective! A 19 year old lad, who had dreams of captaining his country, is lying in a hospital bed with a double break in his leg.

Whilst Shawcross didnt intend to break his leg, he went in recklessly, as he has done plenty of times in the past. If a bloke drove his car recklessly, and killed or injured someone, people wouldnt say "Oh but he's not that kind of driver"...
Shawcross didnt mean to, but he did. End of. He needs to learn to tackle in a more controlled manner.

[Dan_1981]

Tonkers right - it wasn't a bad challenge.

I don't even think it was reckless. Worse tackles are made game in game out by players from just about every team in every league.

Ramsey was nothing more than unlucky.

a 50-50 ball contested fairly had an unfortunate outcome - nothing more and nothing less.

[Mr Jenks]

cotney said:

Mr Jenks said:

Matt19 said:

Poor innocent Arsenal. There are always fouls committed on them where the player isn't even setting out to win the ball, purely to get at the man.

Arsenal could never be guilty of such acts, they are the true victim of such incidents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPDTivssKk

And to think that Winger saw the 50/50 tackle that has sadly seen a young player in hospital but never saw anything of the thuggish violent conduct of RVP, or Fabregas as mentioned earlier. Surprise surprise eh. I know that all teams will be victims and villains but look at reality Arsenal, you were unlucky here, not a victim of any immoral malicous act like percy

Both of you are missing the point. That red card for VP, whilst out of order and petulant, was never going to break any bones, or inflict serious injury. People need to get some perspective! A 19 year old lad, who had dreams of captaining his country, is lying in a hospital bed with a double break in his leg.

Whilst Shawcross didnt intend to break his leg, he went in recklessly, as he has done plenty of times in the past. If a bloke drove his car recklessly, and killed or injured someone, people wouldnt say "Oh but he's not that kind of driver"...
Shawcross didnt mean to, but he did. End of. He needs to learn to tackle in a more controlled manner.

Shawcross went in hard to win a 50 50 ball, thats all. No rule as to how hard you can tackle, unless it`s against Arsenal it appears. No malice, No intent, just an unfortunate accident.
The outcome is VERY unfortunate for young Ramsey. Sadly, however, injuries like this are a part of the game and always will be. A risk you take in playing the game in the first place. Occupational hazard I`m afraid, same as doing the bank and going to prison,
As for VP, maybe not going to cause injury, but never going to win friends either, whats wrong with the guy that he behaves like that anyway? Shawcross broke NO rules,(dont even think about comments for bad taste pun, not how it`s meant) unlike VP, broke rules and sporting etiquette, he deliberately drove into the keeper, if I did that on the road reckless driving is the least I would expect to get done for.
Believe it or not guys, there is NO conspiracy against Arsenal, thers good and bad luck in this world, deal with it.

[cotney]

Mr Jenks said:

cotney said:

Mr Jenks said:

Matt19 said:

Poor innocent Arsenal. There are always fouls committed on them where the player isn't even setting out to win the ball, purely to get at the man.

Arsenal could never be guilty of such acts, they are the true victim of such incidents...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPDTivssKk

And to think that Winger saw the 50/50 tackle that has sadly seen a young player in hospital but never saw anything of the thuggish violent conduct of RVP, or Fabregas as mentioned earlier. Surprise surprise eh. I know that all teams will be victims and villains but look at reality Arsenal, you were unlucky here, not a victim of any immoral malicous act like percy

Both of you are missing the point. That red card for VP, whilst out of order and petulant, was never going to break any bones, or inflict serious injury. People need to get some perspective! A 19 year old lad, who had dreams of captaining his country, is lying in a hospital bed with a double break in his leg.

Whilst Shawcross didnt intend to break his leg, he went in recklessly, as he has done plenty of times in the past. If a bloke drove his car recklessly, and killed or injured someone, people wouldnt say "Oh but he's not that kind of driver"...
Shawcross didnt mean to, but he did. End of. He needs to learn to tackle in a more controlled manner.

Shawcross went in hard to win a 50 50 ball, thats all. No rule as to how hard you can tackle, unless it`s against Arsenal it appears. No malice, No intent, just an unfortunate accident.
The outcome is VERY unfortunate for young Ramsey. Sadly, however, injuries like this are a part of the game and always will be. A risk you take in playing the game in the first place. Occupational hazard I`m afraid, same as doing the bank and going to prison,
As for VP, maybe not going to cause injury, but never going to win friends either, whats wrong with the guy that he behaves like that anyway? Shawcross broke NO rules,(dont even think about comments for bad taste pun, not how it`s meant) unlike VP, broke rules and sporting etiquette, he deliberately drove into the keeper, if I did that on the road reckless driving is the least I would expect to get done for.
Believe it or not guys, there is NO conspiracy against Arsenal, thers good and bad luck in this world, deal with it.

If Shawcross didnt break any rules, why the red card? Surely a red card is a sign that you're not exactly playing within the rules.

And id accept that arguement about it being an unlucky accident if this was a one off mate, or even like the first leg break we'd had in 5 years. But it's not, it's the THIRD double break we've suffered inside 4 years? There's no way thats just coincidence. That stems from the media driven idea that Arsenal can be beaten as long as you get stuck into them, mix it up and stop them playing. So players get sent out the tunnel with the instructions to get stuck in, and it results in reckless and dangerous tackles. And injurys result. I don't see how you can deny/argue with that? Name another team in the Premier League that has had 3 first team players suffer double fractures in the last 4 years?

[GaryJ8]

Magog said:

From one image I've seen it looks like Ramseys leg was broken before Shawcross even got there. I could be wrong though, and the image could be decieving, haven't seen a slow motion replay anywhere.

It's the second image here, not nice.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/...

That image is just after contact, not before.

[Dracoro]

My observations:
Shawcross went for a 50:50.
Shawcross deliberated fouled by Arsenal player #52.
Now Shawcross, half committed but off balance due to foul by #52, still goes for tackle.
Ramsey goes for ball and vid clearly shows leg quite bent/broken BEFORE Shawcross tackles him.
Shawcross makes tackle - possibly making the break even worse.
This all happens in a very short time, within a fast part of the game (50:50 ball).
Do I think Shawcross could have backed out of the tackle? Maybe. Of course in hindsight etc. However, these 50:50 challenges happen ALL the time without incident, every now and again this happens, unfortunate yes but part of a physical game. Certainly wasn't deliberate UNLIKE the Fabregas tackle. What if the Stoke defender's leg was stuck when Fabregas tackled him? It could well have broken too. What is being judged here? The poorness of the tackles or the end result?

Hopefully Ramsey will make a full recovery.
Hopefully Shawcross will learn when to back out of a tackle without sacrificing playing a physical game.
Hopefully Wenger and certain Arsenal fans will grow up and realise the hypocrisy of their statements. Of course, they've a right to be angry about an injured player but to play the hard-done-by victim routine is simply pathetic, their players give as good as they get. The victim in this routine is Ramsey only, not the whole team and club.

[telecat]

It Wasn't a red card tackle, The ref played to the injured party and Shawcross didn't deserve it.

[Nic jones]

Unfortunate for Shawcross and even moreso for Ramsay.

But I think the two who come across as real dheads in this whole matter are Sol Campbell (watch the replays of how he acts after the tackle, while all the other Arsenal players are being quite reasonable he is just asking for a fking good lamping.

And that miserable French tt, of course it was the heat of the moment, but surely he should apologise for the way he acted in the post match interview?

[Amateurish]

Clearly a 50/50 challenge and not worthy of a red card. Wenger is just a moron.

But this should not detract from the real victim of the story who is Ramsey - these accidents can and do happen and it's just a huge shame for the lad.

[amare32]

Shawcross should be banned for life. Likewise that c@nt Martin Taylor - football would be a better game without these hatchet men. Thugs masquerading as football players.

I'd say Roy Keane was one of the few exceptions, at least he possessed football talent.

Edited by amare32 on Wednesday 3rd March 15:26

[Legend83]

amare32 said:

Shawcross should be banned for life. Likewise that c@nt Martin Taylor - football would be a better game without these hatchet men. Thugs masquerading as football players.

I'd say Roy Keane was one of the few exceptions, at least he possessed football talent.

Edited by amare32 on Wednesday 3rd March 15:26

Alfe Inge Haaland is a member of PH!