How England Won the Ashes in Australia - 2010/11
Discussion
IforB said:
Beardy10 said:
Bell is quietly having a great tour....think he's scored over 600 runs so far.
Good to hear. At our club I'm the only one to put Bell down as top scorer and Swann as top wicket taker over the whole tour. There's a decent bit of cash behind the bar riding on that too. C'mon Sherminator.I think this has just been one big f
k up and they are not prepared to admit a simple mistake from the selection rooms after a full day of arguing in there and not agreeing on the line-up, one of them said to Hilditch, "fk this st, lets just go for a beer"
Next day he's in the squad
When the poms were going through one of their (rather extended) rough patches, did you guys have similar issues with politics and crap at the selection committee level? Pretty bad here.
k up and they are not prepared to admit a simple mistake from the selection rooms after a full day of arguing in there and not agreeing on the line-up, one of them said to Hilditch, "fk this st, lets just go for a beer"Next day he's in the squad
When the poms were going through one of their (rather extended) rough patches, did you guys have similar issues with politics and crap at the selection committee level? Pretty bad here.
Beardy10 said:
IforB said:
Beardy10 said:
Bell is quietly having a great tour....think he's scored over 600 runs so far.
Good to hear. At our club I'm the only one to put Bell down as top scorer and Swann as top wicket taker over the whole tour. There's a decent bit of cash behind the bar riding on that too. C'mon Sherminator.Aussies122Poms98 said:
I think this has just been one big fk up and they are not prepared to admit a simple mistake from the selection rooms after a full day of arguing in there and not agreeing on the line-up, one of them said to Hilditch, "fk this st, lets just go for a beer"
Next day he's in the squad
When the poms were going through one of their (rather extended) rough patches, did you guys have similar issues with politics and crap at the selection committee level? Pretty bad here.
Up to a point. There was a lot of chopping and changing at times, but from what I've seen it does seem that the Aussie selectors have completely lost their heads. 6 changes after just 2 matches... FFS you've only lost one of them and the first test could have gone your way if it hadn't been for Cook and Trott.k up and they are not prepared to admit a simple mistake from the selection rooms after a full day of arguing in there and not agreeing on the line-up, one of them said to Hilditch, "fk this st, lets just go for a beer"Next day he's in the squad
When the poms were going through one of their (rather extended) rough patches, did you guys have similar issues with politics and crap at the selection committee level? Pretty bad here.
I was talking to an Aussie mate earlier and he's smashing his head against a wall over this. We're both of the same opinion that they should try and settle things down. He was wondering if they'd suddenly go nuts and bring in a completely new attack. Starc, Copeland, Hazlewood and Cameron. At that point I knew panic was in the air!
English cricket did occasionally do some daft things in the past selection wise and this whole episode does seem eerily familiar, if a little wierd seeing the all conquering Aussies doing it!
From what I can pick up, it looks as if there is a real battle going on for control. Ponting keeps banging on about how he has nothing to do with selection, but his little pets keep getting picked no matter how badly they perform and yet others have a bad game or two and get shot into orbit.
My take on it, is that you pick your best team (based on form not just history) and then work with them to get the best out of them. At the moment it seems as if the Aussie selectors are just rolling the dice and running around like headless chickens, which is only going to make it more difficult for the players.
Does Johnson have a secure place? Does he f***. He seems to be a fragile character, certainly compared to Aussie quicks of the past, so this sort of treatment is not going to help him, especially as I don't think he's played a game since he was dropped, so how is he supposed to rebuild his confidence? Bowling in the nets is of course useful, but it cannot compare to time on the pitch.
It's pretty shocking what is going on and there is obviously trouble at mill. One of my Aussie mates was on tilt about the selectors before this all started.....he was saying that the team is split into two camps....those that want Punter and those that want Clarke as Captain. Punter was openly critical of the decision to drop Johnson, making it quite clear it was the selectors decision. I guess it will all come out over time but I think Punter basically has three tests to save his career....a series defeat and he's gone, there is no way he will play under another captain. If he wasn't such a great batsmen I bet he'd have lost the captaincy already...they can't afford to lose his batting though obviously.
I have to say it seems very similar to the ECB selection policies in the dark days of the 90's.
I have to say it seems very similar to the ECB selection policies in the dark days of the 90's.
Mr E Driver said:
IforB said:
Liz Hurley and Warney... 
That is hilarious if it's true!
A quick scan on Google suggests he has been playing hide the sausage with her since the summer.That is hilarious if it's true!
The Daily Mash has summed it up quite well.
Daily Mash said:
AUSTRALIA TO RECALL BOOZE AND STRIPPERS
AUSTRALIA is to recall booze, strippers and late night hotel carnage to its humiliated Ashes squad.
Head coach Tim Nielsen has appealed to veteran skank-wrangler Shane Warne to instill match winnning levels of bleary-eyed drunkenness and marital infidelity in time for the third Test in Perth.
The move has been welcomed by ecstatic Perth off-license owners, while the team hotel will host a special live edition of Australia's Next Top Scrubber.
The city's town hall will also be converted into a vast 24-hour topless poker complex to help the players unwind after a hard day's romping.
Cricketologist, Roy Hobbs, said: "Warne will share his visualisation techniques, such as telling the batsmen to imagine the ball is the chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency, or adjusting the fast bowler's run-up to the one used when approaching an all-you-can-eat buffet.
"He took 708 Test wickets and was probably sober enough to remember about three of them.
"Meanwhile Xavier Doherty considers sherry trifle to be a little racy and couldn't hit a wicket with a wood-seeking missile. I blame Cliff Richard."
Warne said: "As an Australian I can scarce believe that it has been the best part of a year since one of our international cricketers was kicked out of a casino at five o'clock in the morning dressed as an Alpine milkmaid.
"I only hope I can bring back our former glories, although it's pretty short notice for everyone to grow enormous handlebar moustaches and gain four stone."
AUSTRALIA is to recall booze, strippers and late night hotel carnage to its humiliated Ashes squad.
Head coach Tim Nielsen has appealed to veteran skank-wrangler Shane Warne to instill match winnning levels of bleary-eyed drunkenness and marital infidelity in time for the third Test in Perth.
The move has been welcomed by ecstatic Perth off-license owners, while the team hotel will host a special live edition of Australia's Next Top Scrubber.
The city's town hall will also be converted into a vast 24-hour topless poker complex to help the players unwind after a hard day's romping.
Cricketologist, Roy Hobbs, said: "Warne will share his visualisation techniques, such as telling the batsmen to imagine the ball is the chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency, or adjusting the fast bowler's run-up to the one used when approaching an all-you-can-eat buffet.
"He took 708 Test wickets and was probably sober enough to remember about three of them.
"Meanwhile Xavier Doherty considers sherry trifle to be a little racy and couldn't hit a wicket with a wood-seeking missile. I blame Cliff Richard."
Warne said: "As an Australian I can scarce believe that it has been the best part of a year since one of our international cricketers was kicked out of a casino at five o'clock in the morning dressed as an Alpine milkmaid.
"I only hope I can bring back our former glories, although it's pretty short notice for everyone to grow enormous handlebar moustaches and gain four stone."
Aussies122Poms98 said:
When the poms were going through one of their (rather extended) rough patches, did you guys have similar issues with politics and crap at the selection committee level? Pretty bad here.
Started watching England play cricket properly in '88 when I was 12. -The home series vs WI . Then the Ashes in '89 '90 was OK with Gooch's summer + rise of Fraser, Smith & Atherton but onwards through the 90's was painful. We even lost a series to NZ once I think. Throughout that period we had inconsistent selection (e.g. 29 England players selected during 6 '89 Ashes tests). Atherton in particular described problems with crap upper management. But above all, I think we had bare patches in terms of 'talent' via the county system and an inability to manage and develop genuine talent when it did arise. I'm a Glamorgan fan so biased, but take Matthew Maynard. Selected for a single test in '88, failed as a youngster against rampant Ambrose, Marshall and Walsh, flung back in the sea and forgotten. Makes a couple of quick appearances in mid 90's but never made to feel part of the team or a sense of belonging. Massive waste of talent. Could have been an English Punter. Many other similar examples, Alan Wells, John Morris, Rob Bailey etc etc.
I think this has been one of the biggest turnarounds, central contracts, proper investment and trust placed in carefully picked young players.
But I'm not sure England are the team to compare yourselves to because we haven't been a 'great' team in recent memory. I think Australia's problem is an expectation of winning after years of an almost freakishly talented group of players, brilliantly and strongly led. Thus a new plan is needed rather than papering over cracks and hoping to 'throw a six', suddenly uncovering a new match winner from State cricket. There are no quick fixes. Perhaps you should be looking at the Windies and their demise after the departure of Walsh, Ambrose and Richards. Then again, they haven't found the recipe either yet...
captainzep said:
Aussies122Poms98 said:
When the poms were going through one of their (rather extended) rough patches, did you guys have similar issues with politics and crap at the selection committee level? Pretty bad here.
Started watching England play cricket properly in '88 when I was 12. -The home series vs WI . Then the Ashes in '89 '90 was OK with Gooch's summer + rise of Fraser, Smith & Atherton but onwards through the 90's was painful. We even lost a series to NZ once I think. Throughout that period we had inconsistent selection (e.g. 29 England players selected during 6 '89 Ashes tests). Atherton in particular described problems with crap upper management. But above all, I think we had bare patches in terms of 'talent' via the county system and an inability to manage and develop genuine talent when it did arise. I'm a Glamorgan fan so biased, but take Matthew Maynard. Selected for a single test in '88, failed as a youngster against rampant Ambrose, Marshall and Walsh, flung back in the sea and forgotten. Makes a couple of quick appearances in mid 90's but never made to feel part of the team or a sense of belonging. Massive waste of talent. Could have been an English Punter. Many other similar examples, Alan Wells, John Morris, Rob Bailey etc etc.
I think this has been one of the biggest turnarounds, central contracts, proper investment and trust placed in carefully picked young players.
But I'm not sure England are the team to compare yourselves to because we haven't been a 'great' team in recent memory. I think Australia's problem is an expectation of winning after years of an almost freakishly talented group of players, brilliantly and strongly led. Thus a new plan is needed rather than papering over cracks and hoping to 'throw a six', suddenly uncovering a new match winner from State cricket. There are no quick fixes. Perhaps you should be looking at the Windies and their demise after the departure of Walsh, Ambrose and Richards. Then again, they haven't found the recipe either yet...
Bing o said:
Taken from Cricinfo on Facebook:
"If the new boy takes wickets in Perth, it will be a rare example of an Australian Beer being any good." Martin Johnson on Michael Beer
Ah, if recycled jokes are allowed, from the Guardian's comments today:"If the new boy takes wickets in Perth, it will be a rare example of an Australian Beer being any good." Martin Johnson on Michael Beer
"I wondered why Warney was looking a bit tired towards the end of some days' play in this series. Turns out he's been getting up Hurley."
Gizmo! said:
Bing o said:
Taken from Cricinfo on Facebook:
"If the new boy takes wickets in Perth, it will be a rare example of an Australian Beer being any good." Martin Johnson on Michael Beer
Ah, if recycled jokes are allowed, from the Guardian's comments today:"If the new boy takes wickets in Perth, it will be a rare example of an Australian Beer being any good." Martin Johnson on Michael Beer
"I wondered why Warney was looking a bit tired towards the end of some days' play in this series. Turns out he's been getting up Hurley."
"At least one Aussie made a good score"
captainzep said:
Aussies122Poms98 said:
When the poms were going through one of their (rather extended) rough patches, did you guys have similar issues with politics and crap at the selection committee level? Pretty bad here.
Started watching England play cricket properly in '88 when I was 12. -The home series vs WI . Then the Ashes in '89 '90 was OK with Gooch's summer + rise of Fraser, Smith & Atherton but onwards through the 90's was painful. We even lost a series to NZ once I think. Throughout that period we had inconsistent selection (e.g. 29 England players selected during 6 '89 Ashes tests). Atherton in particular described problems with crap upper management. But above all, I think we had bare patches in terms of 'talent' via the county system and an inability to manage and develop genuine talent when it did arise. I'm a Glamorgan fan so biased, but take Matthew Maynard. Selected for a single test in '88, failed as a youngster against rampant Ambrose, Marshall and Walsh, flung back in the sea and forgotten. Makes a couple of quick appearances in mid 90's but never made to feel part of the team or a sense of belonging. Massive waste of talent. Could have been an English Punter. Many other similar examples, Alan Wells, John Morris, Rob Bailey etc etc.
I think this has been one of the biggest turnarounds, central contracts, proper investment and trust placed in carefully picked young players.
But I'm not sure England are the team to compare yourselves to because we haven't been a 'great' team in recent memory. I think Australia's problem is an expectation of winning after years of an almost freakishly talented group of players, brilliantly and strongly led. Thus a new plan is needed rather than papering over cracks and hoping to 'throw a six', suddenly uncovering a new match winner from State cricket. There are no quick fixes. Perhaps you should be looking at the Windies and their demise after the departure of Walsh, Ambrose and Richards. Then again, they haven't found the recipe either yet...
Ironically it's the fast scoring Aussies who have made England what they are and woke us up to the fact that if we want to start winning series then Athers had to go.
custardtart said:
I agree with a lot of that (Maynard a great example BTW). I do think we had the talent it's just that the selectors kept picking the same core guys and throwing in 1 or 2 newbies who then got discarded. There seemed no effort to build a team, just to stick with the same failing players year on year and if newcomers don't score centuries they're gone. I know it's probably not a popular opinion but I thought Atherton was the worst example of our 90's slump, a great batsmen for 7 day test match cricket.
Ironically it's the fast scoring Aussies who have made England what they are and woke us up to the fact that if we want to start winning series then Athers had to go.
Fair points.Ironically it's the fast scoring Aussies who have made England what they are and woke us up to the fact that if we want to start winning series then Athers had to go.
I think another problem was the spectre of the ex-great player replacement obsession.
Much of the 90's saw England desperately trying to find another Botham. -Unsuccessfully, (Lewis, White, Ealham, Hamilton, Capel, Watkinson, Irani (although Cork was pretty effective with ball in hand). Perhaps we should have admitted we didn't have one and tried a better balanced side.
Perhaps Australia are doing this following Warne's departure.
New Barmy Army song unveiled for the WACA:
Barmy Army said:
Slip inside Ricky Ponting's mind
He's trying to find
Some new players to play
He wants to play his older team
But that's just a dream
They're too old to play
He said he'd start a revolution in his head
But he's been through all the players A to Z
Now there's just a summertime of doom
If he loses the Ashes race
He is going to lose his place
Losing three would simply tear his heart out
So Ricky can wait
Shane Warne is too late
And there's no Glenn McGrath
Gilchrist's had his day
And don't look back to Langer
He cannot play
Where did all those old players go
Now everyone knows
You've nearly had your day
You'll have to leave the team in the hands
Of Michael Clarke and
He'll throw it all away
He said he'd start a revolution in his head
But he's been through all the players A to Z
Now there's just a summertime of doom
If he loses the Ashes race
He is going to lose his place
Losing three would simply tear his heart out
So Ricky can wait
Shane Warne is too late
And there's no Glenn McGrath
Gilchrist's had his day
And don't look back to Langer
He cannot play
So Ricky can wait
Shane Warne is too late
And there's no Glenn McGrath
Gilchrist's had his day
And don't look back to Langer
He cannot play
At least not today
He's trying to find
Some new players to play
He wants to play his older team
But that's just a dream
They're too old to play
He said he'd start a revolution in his head
But he's been through all the players A to Z
Now there's just a summertime of doom
If he loses the Ashes race
He is going to lose his place
Losing three would simply tear his heart out
So Ricky can wait
Shane Warne is too late
And there's no Glenn McGrath
Gilchrist's had his day
And don't look back to Langer
He cannot play
Where did all those old players go
Now everyone knows
You've nearly had your day
You'll have to leave the team in the hands
Of Michael Clarke and
He'll throw it all away
He said he'd start a revolution in his head
But he's been through all the players A to Z
Now there's just a summertime of doom
If he loses the Ashes race
He is going to lose his place
Losing three would simply tear his heart out
So Ricky can wait
Shane Warne is too late
And there's no Glenn McGrath
Gilchrist's had his day
And don't look back to Langer
He cannot play
So Ricky can wait
Shane Warne is too late
And there's no Glenn McGrath
Gilchrist's had his day
And don't look back to Langer
He cannot play
At least not today
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