RE: Lotus Esprit: the name's official
Discussion
jig said:
Sounds a cliche, but the Europa does look a lot better in the flesh.
And the pics of the Esprit are not even close...
And the pics of the Esprit are not even close...
The man who maked this also did such thing of the Europa S and they looked like the real thing
hope the new Esprit will also look like (t)his drawning.. GTRene
Edited by GTRene on Friday 4th August 14:44
What lotus need to do this time is design the Esprit not to fall to pieces every five minutes. I had a brand new V8 and it was a dog (with flees). I bought it to go to Le Mans in 1999...they delivered it late...missed that...2000 radiator knackered...reported in January....sent it in to Lotus in May got it back at the end of July...missed that Le Mans...2001...exhuast system shot..went back to factory...missed that Le Mans..
My point is the are designed and built on the cheap. Out of 3 years I had it it was in the garage over 7 months!
When it worked I loved it above all others.
Factory staff are a joke.When I turned up after a particularly long stint for the car at the factory I told the receptionist that I had come about my car..her curt response "Why? Have you won one"... If only it was free and I hadn't spunked 56k I would have luaghed at her response.
Having said all this, if they build this Esprit out of more than old Renualt, Toyota and Mondeo bits stuck together with a little playdoe and glue, then I may consider buying one. I loved it so..
My point is the are designed and built on the cheap. Out of 3 years I had it it was in the garage over 7 months!
When it worked I loved it above all others.
Factory staff are a joke.When I turned up after a particularly long stint for the car at the factory I told the receptionist that I had come about my car..her curt response "Why? Have you won one"... If only it was free and I hadn't spunked 56k I would have luaghed at her response.
Having said all this, if they build this Esprit out of more than old Renualt, Toyota and Mondeo bits stuck together with a little playdoe and glue, then I may consider buying one. I loved it so..
zebedee said:
surely the biggest disappointment about the Europa is the fact that it is not different enough to an Elise, then the styling comes next? I hope Lotus business plan isn't based on selling 5 times as many Europas as they do Elises, otherwise they won't last long enough to launch the next Esprit, which really would be a shame.
I would have to say that the biggest disappointment is the the fact that (like the Elise before) it is not available in the united States. All the talk about a larger market and one of the largest automotive consumer markets in the world is left out of the game... again.
Another decade then... With luck they will be smart enough to send the new Esprit 'states side' from the get go!
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
Europa - yes, it does look very good in the flesh and I can get in it whereas the Elise/Exige is an absolute pain for me. As many have said, it is aimed at a different (larger and more affluent) market segment. My local dealer holds more deposits than his allocation for next year. He has been losing several potential customers for every Elise that he sells - the Europa fixes that (not that I would buy one).
Esprit - I, like others, have it on good authority (my local dealer who has seen it) that we will not be disappointed. Design ques are mainly M250, 'old' Esprit and some Elise to keep the family resemblence, in that order. He is adamant existing owners will absolutely love it. And none of the magazine renderings come close. So there.
Esprit - I, like others, have it on good authority (my local dealer who has seen it) that we will not be disappointed. Design ques are mainly M250, 'old' Esprit and some Elise to keep the family resemblence, in that order. He is adamant existing owners will absolutely love it. And none of the magazine renderings come close. So there.
Edited by hedgerley on Friday 4th August 17:24
Edited by hedgerley on Friday 4th August 17:27
Autocross7 said:
zebedee said:
surely the biggest disappointment about the Europa is the fact that it is not different enough to an Elise, then the styling comes next? I hope Lotus business plan isn't based on selling 5 times as many Europas as they do Elises, otherwise they won't last long enough to launch the next Esprit, which really would be a shame.
I would have to say that the biggest disappointment is the the fact that (like the Elise before) it is not available in the united States. All the talk about a larger market and one of the largest automotive consumer markets in the world is left out of the game... again.
Another decade then... With luck they will be smart enough to send the new Esprit 'states side' from the get go!
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
Cameron,
The reason behind it not going to the states is their bumper regulations. Design would have to change. Check out the differences in UK/European and US spec Esprits for a good example. It's also why there is a problem getting Lotus's to Canada, their regulations are even tighter than US.
I know the Europa (in the pictures) is not beautiful but I have yet to see a beautiful German car.....ever. Stylist, well resolved, looks like quality whatever you like but not beautiful.
If the Germans can sell non-beautiful looking Sports Cars why not Lotus. I would rather have a world with Lotus in it (I used to own an Excel) than not and that takes money provided by a car that is excessible to a large number of people.
I am sure that those (lucky enough) to own TVR's will not buy the Europa but there are actually more people wanting to buy Boxsters......an excessible sports car.
Does the Boxster look better than the Europa....who cares!
LAW
If the Germans can sell non-beautiful looking Sports Cars why not Lotus. I would rather have a world with Lotus in it (I used to own an Excel) than not and that takes money provided by a car that is excessible to a large number of people.
I am sure that those (lucky enough) to own TVR's will not buy the Europa but there are actually more people wanting to buy Boxsters......an excessible sports car.
Does the Boxster look better than the Europa....who cares!
LAW
The reason that regulations are tighter here in the US is because both the average driver and pedestrian are, well, PSYCHO (no offense intended to American PH readers - if you read this you're almost definitely *not* average!). I've been here just one year and I've already seen a huge accident (which I would have been part of if I was a little closer - one guy in a minivan cut across 3 lanes and took out two SUV's and they all ended up in a wall at 65MPH), I've seen drivers hit-and-run, and I've seen countless pedestrians almost run over because the law states that pedestrians have right of way (so naturally they don't look where they are going and simply step out in to the road AND walk slowly - even when a traffic light is green).
So, regulations have to be tighter - else we'd have more injured Americans, and more lawsuits (did you hear the one about the guy who crashed his Carrera GT at a race track and both him and his passenger died? The passengers wife is sueing the race track organisers, the race track itself, the drivers family AND, get this, Porsche for building an "unsafe" car - what planet is that lady on?!).
I live in the UK all my life and I never saw the things I've seen here in just one year.
As for the Lotus... They probably need to think about things like road quality too (which is pretty poor over here). I've seen a few Elises around, but I'm not sure how successful they are - doesn't seem very popular at all, and I'm in Silicon Valley where they'd be most common. Most people here see them as useless cuz you can't fit Mount Everest in the "trunk" or you can't show off like you can in a Ferrari or Lamborghini. A more practical Lotus would probably be far more successful in the US, although if the "Esprit" is more flamboyant that could be successful too.
I've noticed that some of the Lotus dealer network in the US really SUCKS. They have partnered with some dealers that normally sell mundane everyday cars, so the sales staff are not trained in selling an exotic. I went to a local Lotus dealership (about <2mins from where I live) and when I went in the guy had no clue about the Lotus (but he pretended that he knew everything about it)... I told him I had an S1 in the UK and he misheard me and thought I said F1. Needless to say he kept talking about F1's, F2's and F3's (which is obviously wrong - and I'm pretty sure he'd never even seen an S1 or S2 before), and I let him keep talking. Within about 4 minutes he was trying to get me in to a finance agreement, but he wouldn't let me test drive or even SIT in the car! The hard sell doesn't work for Lotus - I felt like I was being sold a Ford. Lotus need to fix this situation...
Thanks!
S.
So, regulations have to be tighter - else we'd have more injured Americans, and more lawsuits (did you hear the one about the guy who crashed his Carrera GT at a race track and both him and his passenger died? The passengers wife is sueing the race track organisers, the race track itself, the drivers family AND, get this, Porsche for building an "unsafe" car - what planet is that lady on?!).
I live in the UK all my life and I never saw the things I've seen here in just one year.
As for the Lotus... They probably need to think about things like road quality too (which is pretty poor over here). I've seen a few Elises around, but I'm not sure how successful they are - doesn't seem very popular at all, and I'm in Silicon Valley where they'd be most common. Most people here see them as useless cuz you can't fit Mount Everest in the "trunk" or you can't show off like you can in a Ferrari or Lamborghini. A more practical Lotus would probably be far more successful in the US, although if the "Esprit" is more flamboyant that could be successful too.
I've noticed that some of the Lotus dealer network in the US really SUCKS. They have partnered with some dealers that normally sell mundane everyday cars, so the sales staff are not trained in selling an exotic. I went to a local Lotus dealership (about <2mins from where I live) and when I went in the guy had no clue about the Lotus (but he pretended that he knew everything about it)... I told him I had an S1 in the UK and he misheard me and thought I said F1. Needless to say he kept talking about F1's, F2's and F3's (which is obviously wrong - and I'm pretty sure he'd never even seen an S1 or S2 before), and I let him keep talking. Within about 4 minutes he was trying to get me in to a finance agreement, but he wouldn't let me test drive or even SIT in the car! The hard sell doesn't work for Lotus - I felt like I was being sold a Ford. Lotus need to fix this situation...
Thanks!
S.
Emmy said:
I've seen countless pedestrians almost run over because the law states that pedestrians have right of way (so naturally they don't look where they are going and simply step out in to the road AND walk slowly - even when a traffic light is green).
Only in the People's Republic of California and a few other States. Road rules are not uniform throughout the US. Here in Florida it is easy for us to spot the people that used to live in California. They are in the emergency rooms...
ErnestM
I think designing the car is the easy bit. getting past local legislation etc is the challenge. I reckon they should strap big (removable) foam rubber bumpers all round and it would fly through without even a glance.
Of course owners could then remove them and have a nice car.
Pedestrians should watch out, cars are usually harder than people.
Of course owners could then remove them and have a nice car.
Pedestrians should watch out, cars are usually harder than people.
bumpers are meant to protect the car, not the pedestrians. for that we'd need outside airbags. most auto collisions are under 20mph, and up until the mid eighties, the bumper took the hit, and both cars drove away undamaged. didn't make any money for the car industry though, so they brainwashed you all into wanting cars with integrated non functioning bumpers. how gullible the average consumer.
Yes, but NCAP crash requirements, as well as Federal requirements in the US, require that the entire front-end of the car, including primarily the bumper, be "people-friendly" and cause as little damage as possible to people. Cars from the mid-eighties would probably cut someones legs off pretty easily 
S.
S.
for me the direction Lotus is taking is dissapointing, we have seen significant increases in weight to 'satisfy' the market i.e air con, airbags and ABS, maybe my view is too purist but is the marque staying loyal to it's values of late?
that said I like the fact that they have taken the market for the 'practical' sports car away from the Elise and Exige with the intro of the Europa, altough clearly this car will not provide the 'ownership' experience afforded by the current line up
that said I like the fact that they have taken the market for the 'practical' sports car away from the Elise and Exige with the intro of the Europa, altough clearly this car will not provide the 'ownership' experience afforded by the current line up
Emmy... no offence taken. I am often the one pointing out the fact that most over here are total dumb arsses - really. And also correct is the fact that our laws (passed by who?) cater to these half wits - effectively allowing this gene pool to continue on and the circle begins.
So, catch 22. Build the car to the regs, or loose the market. Eventually the car will (prob.) be changed to meet the regs here (and the great white north) - so why not do it from the get go?
As I stated above... I hope the new "Esprit" will be a states side car for sale. Ferrari and others can do it - Lotus (being the better buy and my personal favorite for unexplainable reasons) should be able to as well. Or...
We (in the USA) that have some 'not common' sence could start the lobby to get the laws changed so that if your dumb butt is in the highway one night, and my pop up lamps hit you at 70mph... then your a dumb arss for standing in the highway at night and that is that! (Hey, it could work, a small number of people did get the gun laws, fence laws, and speed limits changed to "favor smarts" at the State level recently!).
As far as styling goes, I have been a bit down on most "new" styles - but I like the Elise and Exige. As far as the Esprit, my car is an 88' and I think it speaks well of the styling when I enter car shows that require the car to be 15 years old and I have to prove that the car is 18 years old because people think it is a "new" car...
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
So, catch 22. Build the car to the regs, or loose the market. Eventually the car will (prob.) be changed to meet the regs here (and the great white north) - so why not do it from the get go?
As I stated above... I hope the new "Esprit" will be a states side car for sale. Ferrari and others can do it - Lotus (being the better buy and my personal favorite for unexplainable reasons) should be able to as well. Or...
We (in the USA) that have some 'not common' sence could start the lobby to get the laws changed so that if your dumb butt is in the highway one night, and my pop up lamps hit you at 70mph... then your a dumb arss for standing in the highway at night and that is that! (Hey, it could work, a small number of people did get the gun laws, fence laws, and speed limits changed to "favor smarts" at the State level recently!).
As far as styling goes, I have been a bit down on most "new" styles - but I like the Elise and Exige. As far as the Esprit, my car is an 88' and I think it speaks well of the styling when I enter car shows that require the car to be 15 years old and I have to prove that the car is 18 years old because people think it is a "new" car...
Drive topless!!!
Cameron
Edited by Autocross7 on Saturday 5th August 04:49
Edited by Autocross7 on Monday 7th August 15:01
teigan said:
i had thought the lotus stylists above average, given the elise/exige series. but it appears that was just a fluke. the europa is just an obese looking elise. sadly though, it does look better than all the new esprit renderings so far.
Ahhh, Tiegan ever the positive comments. I had a similar opinion as yourself, but unlike you I have seen it in the flesh. It looks so much better than the Elise, more agressive from the front, sleeker from the side. Like me many here have made the same comment. It also opens up a bigger market for Lotus which is what they need right now.
Nice talking to you again.
nickjm said:
This was on autocar's website, not sure how accurate it is though.
I saw the first real pictures of the Esprit in the latest swedish auto motor & sport (maybe also available in other languages? - Too bad I left my magazine at work, I would have posted something... )
It looks stunning and these photoshops do not even close to the real thing. The front lights are all wrong - they are much smaller and nicely arranged along the inside side edges of the boot lid, the side intakes on the real thing have a sleek opening from door sill to roof, yummie; and the rear is just.. great, it reminds a bit of the original Esprit Turbo with the stepped panels as rear window and the rear light LED cluster looks like a one piece with the rest of the car. It is truly the best looking (sports) car ever (to me anyway), truly georgeous. I dislike the Europa since I saw it, I don't get how the same company can do so differing efforts.
I suspect that you all will see it soon when pistonheads publishes the full interview (the article in AMS was an interview with the new Lotus CEO)
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