Planning Process, appeal, give in or change?
Discussion
Hi,
Ive currently got a Planning Application going through on our property, basically its a 3bed semi, Bay window built 1930s, it has a decent amount of space, currently has a carport and garage to the side which we plan to infill and wrap round the back creating a kitchen diner, utility, shower room bedroom and another room (bedroom / gym / study / ?) together with a (originally) double garage to the front (detached on the front drive).
The planner has advised that he is not happy with the garage proposal, I've been back and forth offering Single Garage, Carport options etc but not getting anywhere, I feel like I will not get anywhere with it with deadline approaching on the decision, we had no comments from neighbours etc and support from other bodies consulted.
I don't know currently what to do, whether let them refuse it then go to appeal, we have a mix of properties on our street, some with garages to the front, some with extensions beyond the building line etc - I don't know what our chances are though...
Other options are to get planning with nothing to the front and submit an amendment requesting the garage which I assume will get refused, so maybe best submitting a separate application for the garage at a later date, which would then be separate to the main application and may be looked at differently.
Other option is to keep the garage in its current location and loose the additional internal room.
or
Re-design and go 2 storey with Garage below - we have an awkward upstairs and I think we'd loose a bedroom to gain a bedroom which seems pointless to me..
or
apply for planning for a 2/3 bed house to the side, sell up and move on.. (we like where we are and don't really want to move albeit we have spoken about this option) - the garden wouldn't be grand of the new build though...
I feel I have been spoilt with 2 covered spaces so far and want to keep cover for at least 1 vehicle if possible.
I'm not sure what the best way forward is currently, Is the appeal process painful will it be looked upon favourably or do they generally form the same decision as the local planners?
Ive currently got a Planning Application going through on our property, basically its a 3bed semi, Bay window built 1930s, it has a decent amount of space, currently has a carport and garage to the side which we plan to infill and wrap round the back creating a kitchen diner, utility, shower room bedroom and another room (bedroom / gym / study / ?) together with a (originally) double garage to the front (detached on the front drive).
The planner has advised that he is not happy with the garage proposal, I've been back and forth offering Single Garage, Carport options etc but not getting anywhere, I feel like I will not get anywhere with it with deadline approaching on the decision, we had no comments from neighbours etc and support from other bodies consulted.
I don't know currently what to do, whether let them refuse it then go to appeal, we have a mix of properties on our street, some with garages to the front, some with extensions beyond the building line etc - I don't know what our chances are though...
Other options are to get planning with nothing to the front and submit an amendment requesting the garage which I assume will get refused, so maybe best submitting a separate application for the garage at a later date, which would then be separate to the main application and may be looked at differently.
Other option is to keep the garage in its current location and loose the additional internal room.
or
Re-design and go 2 storey with Garage below - we have an awkward upstairs and I think we'd loose a bedroom to gain a bedroom which seems pointless to me..
or
apply for planning for a 2/3 bed house to the side, sell up and move on.. (we like where we are and don't really want to move albeit we have spoken about this option) - the garden wouldn't be grand of the new build though...
I feel I have been spoilt with 2 covered spaces so far and want to keep cover for at least 1 vehicle if possible.
I'm not sure what the best way forward is currently, Is the appeal process painful will it be looked upon favourably or do they generally form the same decision as the local planners?
Are you willing to post a link to your application from the council web site?
You might as well appeal. The householder appeal procedure is very straightforward, essentially it's a second look at the same application material by a Planning Inspector.
Inspectors have a bit more professional distance and tend to make up their own minds, sometimes council planners tend to tow the office line on things, sometimes they'll refuse something because they know the boss wouldn't approve it or councillors won't like it when in reality there's no harm in it.
You might as well appeal. The householder appeal procedure is very straightforward, essentially it's a second look at the same application material by a Planning Inspector.
Inspectors have a bit more professional distance and tend to make up their own minds, sometimes council planners tend to tow the office line on things, sometimes they'll refuse something because they know the boss wouldn't approve it or councillors won't like it when in reality there's no harm in it.
Yeah, I get the impression that they tend to tow the party line, I speak to him, suggest something, seems OK over the phone then I get the No response...
If this works, this is the link; :removed:
As I say, there is a big mix of properties down our road, all types of construction, some with extensions / garages / outbuildings to the front.
ETA we have thought about keeping the open feel to the front by having the open carport road side...
If we get refused and the appeal fails, is it then a case of resubmitted or can you amend the original application?
What is the timescale for the appeal process, is it a quick turn round from appeal to decision?
If this works, this is the link; :removed:
As I say, there is a big mix of properties down our road, all types of construction, some with extensions / garages / outbuildings to the front.
ETA we have thought about keeping the open feel to the front by having the open carport road side...
If we get refused and the appeal fails, is it then a case of resubmitted or can you amend the original application?
What is the timescale for the appeal process, is it a quick turn round from appeal to decision?
Edited by tjdixon911 on Tuesday 27th June 22:39
Edited by tjdixon911 on Wednesday 28th June 07:44
Link doesn't work - although I would be wary of basically publishing your address on a public forum like PistonHeads.
... but garage/carport in front of the house was never going to end well.
Planners are not design experts, but that's one of the basic 'hates' that is programmed into them at an almost genetic level. You would need a very strong justification to overcome their concerns, and an Appeals Inspector (being from a Planning background) is likely to support them.
... but garage/carport in front of the house was never going to end well.
Planners are not design experts, but that's one of the basic 'hates' that is programmed into them at an almost genetic level. You would need a very strong justification to overcome their concerns, and an Appeals Inspector (being from a Planning background) is likely to support them.
Equus said:
Link doesn't work - although I would be wary of basically publishing your address on a public forum like PistonHeads.
... but garage/carport in front of the house was never going to end well.
Planners are not design experts, but that's one of the basic 'hates' that is programmed into them at an almost genetic level. You would need a very strong justification to overcome their concerns, and an Appeals Inspector (being from a Planning background) is likely to support them.
Good point, I have now removed the link. ... but garage/carport in front of the house was never going to end well.
Planners are not design experts, but that's one of the basic 'hates' that is programmed into them at an almost genetic level. You would need a very strong justification to overcome their concerns, and an Appeals Inspector (being from a Planning background) is likely to support them.
My Architect did always say that the positioning of it may cause some problems, but there seems to be no compromising, not even to a single garage / car port.
Do the Appeal Planners talk to the original Planners, and then form the same opinion?
Hear are the plans for info;
OS Map
Existing
Proposed
Having discussed this with SWMBO, we are currently thinking of a painless process and reverting back to having the garage where it sits in the existing (workshop on the proposed) but maybe extend out the side to create a bit of additional space / smaller workshop.
tjdixon911 said:
we are currently thinking of a painless process and reverting back to having the garage where it sits in the existing (workshop on the proposed) but maybe extend out the side to create a bit of additional space / smaller workshop.
Yes, I think that you need a fairly substantial redesign. I'd tend to go for extending forward about an extra 500mm further than your current proposed. From the house heading left viewed from the road garage, garage workshop (the workshop may need to be slightly shorter than the garage to have the manhole outside and meet the 6m rule) the workshop will have to be an odd shape to fit to the boundary - door front and back. Extend the kitchen to the boundary with a sort of utility room corridor and doors at each end and re-design the interior to make better use of space.Anything bringing the front of the property nearer to the road is going to be difficult to get through.
The planning guides all seem to say that an extension should be subservient to the original property. Round us everything seems to be set back at least 6" and nothing gets approved if it brings the front of the house out.
The planning guides all seem to say that an extension should be subservient to the original property. Round us everything seems to be set back at least 6" and nothing gets approved if it brings the front of the house out.
A bit difficult to be too definitive with so little to go on but, for a resi extension that looks like quite a challenging application even without the garage to the front.
Have you had pre-app advice from the planning authority and is your architect familiar with getting consents in your authority?
Have you had pre-app advice from the planning authority and is your architect familiar with getting consents in your authority?
Your challenge appears to be that you have quite a strong linear built frontage on your street (based on the stuff you've posted). Putting a garage in front of that could be seen as incongruous/out of character. As such, I think you'll struggle to get a ticket based on a garage in front of the house.
So the question is (and I know this is PH) do you need a garage? If you do, you need to look again at your plans wholistically. If not, why not just get rid from the design.
So the question is (and I know this is PH) do you need a garage? If you do, you need to look again at your plans wholistically. If not, why not just get rid from the design.
TooLateForAName said:
Anything bringing the front of the property nearer to the road is going to be difficult to get through.
The planning guides all seem to say that an extension should be subservient to the original property. Round us everything seems to be set back at least 6" and nothing gets approved if it brings the front of the house out.
I've managed to extend the front of mine out 500mm from the existing front of the house (at ground floor level). I also managed to get the 1st floor set back reduced to 100mm and get the distance from the boundary reduced by about a foot.The planning guides all seem to say that an extension should be subservient to the original property. Round us everything seems to be set back at least 6" and nothing gets approved if it brings the front of the house out.
So you can get some flexibility.
The OP plan looks like it's a bit more substantial than mine though. Probably worth paying a pro for some good advice.
Thanks for all the responses.
Essentially I have been told that planning would be granted if I remove the garages, the planner has today said that a carport projecting forward from the garage (sketch issued to them) by approx 2.5m would be acceptable if the design was in keeping, having paced it out roughly on the drive though it would make for an awkward entry in/out and possibly not look the most attractive structure.
I do use both my carport and garage for the intended use and I would like to keep at least one covered space.
Essentially I have been told that planning would be granted if I remove the garages, the planner has today said that a carport projecting forward from the garage (sketch issued to them) by approx 2.5m would be acceptable if the design was in keeping, having paced it out roughly on the drive though it would make for an awkward entry in/out and possibly not look the most attractive structure.
I do use both my carport and garage for the intended use and I would like to keep at least one covered space.
tjdixon911 said:
My Architect did always say that the positioning of it may cause some problems, but there seems to be no compromising, not even to a single garage / car port.
No there won't be: development in front of the build line is development in front of the build line. Double garage, single garage or car port will make no difference - it's all (usually) considered equally unacceptable.tjdixon911 said:
Do the Appeal Planners talk to the original Planners, and then form the same opinion?
Essentially, if you go for the 'written representations' form of appeal (the most basic, and the most appropriate to this sort of application), then you write a document stating your case, the Planners write a document stating their case, and the Appeals Inspector reads both before making his or her decision.I have to say that, taking into account what you've told us so far and the map extract provided, I would find it difficult to make a sound case in Planning terms for why a refusal should be overturned at appeal.
I'd say you'd be looking at a 95%+ chance of failure.
It's time to listen to what your Architect has been telling you...
Edited by Equus on Wednesday 28th June 22:35
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