cyclists, why so far from the kerb?
Discussion
4key said:
Ive never understood this train of thought, its often used as the reason not to use cycle lanes too. Why do a vast majority of you buy cycles that are not appropriate for the surface that you are riding on?
If I was driving around in a radical on road legal slicks and started moaning about the condition of the road surface I would rightly be called a moron, so why is it different for cyclists with hard tail carbon bikes?
I know that you would travel slower using a mtb or even a roadie with a bit of suspension and chunkier tyres, but youre not having a race on public roads are you? You buy bikes that are designed to go as fast as possible on a smooth surface knowing that the enviroment that you will be using them in is far from perfect, and then moan about it.
I don't get your post either. Do you avoid potholes and standing water? If so, why?If I was driving around in a radical on road legal slicks and started moaning about the condition of the road surface I would rightly be called a moron, so why is it different for cyclists with hard tail carbon bikes?
I know that you would travel slower using a mtb or even a roadie with a bit of suspension and chunkier tyres, but youre not having a race on public roads are you? You buy bikes that are designed to go as fast as possible on a smooth surface knowing that the enviroment that you will be using them in is far from perfect, and then moan about it.
BFG TERRANO said:
Thanks again for the different views, never again will I think cyclists are being rude or awkward. Every day is a school day as they say.
Faith in humanity: restored.
(I'm sure you'll occaionally find some cyclists being rude or awkward though - there are dicks in every mode of transport).
I agree with the positioning on the road, you are doing it for reasons other than just the surface and I can understand that you want to make yourself as safe as possible. With that in mind it would be a lot safer to use the cycle lanes when they are provided, and the main argument for not using them is that they are in a bad state of repair.
It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
Horns said:
"give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car"
From a little book called 'The Highway Code'. It's worth a read.
Arent the rules changing to give half a cars width rather than same clearance (a foot or so?) as you would a car?From a little book called 'The Highway Code'. It's worth a read.
4key said:
I agree with the positioning on the road, you are doing it for reasons other than just the surface and I can understand that you want to make yourself as safe as possible. With that in mind it would be a lot safer to use the cycle lanes when they are provided, and the main argument for not using them is that they are in a bad state of repair.
It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
The argument about cycle lanes is that they are 9/10 a box-ticking exercise by local councils, and very rarely do they do anything to make cyclists journeys safer or faster.It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
Example. Here is a cycle lane that runs next to the road on the pavement: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.457299,-0.253367&a...
Pedestrians walk on it, driveways run across it, you have to give way at every junction and then you can't turn right onto the main road at the end of it. Ride assertively on the road, and all these problems go away. Any cars over taking you, are wasting their time, as they get stuck in the traffic jam at the end of the road. It doesn't stop them from making an impotent over-take anyway.
4key said:
I agree with the positioning on the road, you are doing it for reasons other than just the surface and I can understand that you want to make yourself as safe as possible. With that in mind it would be a lot safer to use the cycle lanes when they are provided, and the main argument for not using them is that they are in a bad state of repair.
It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
The other factor is often cars have worn a smooth groove in the road surface which makes it much easier to cycle on. The quality of the road surface close to the edge is rubbish even on a mountain bike thus make a fun activity less fun.It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
Having said that on bigger roads where there is a white line at the edge then a bit more tarmac I aim to stay to the left of said white line so should not be in anyone's way.
Ben
Mr Gear said:
The argument about cycle lanes is that they are 9/10 a box-ticking exercise by local councils, and very rarely do they do anything to make cyclists journeys safer or faster.
Here's the new advice encouraging cycling further out and allowing half a cars gap
http://think.direct.gov.uk/cycling.html
They need to make roads wider
Mr Gear said:
4key said:
I agree with the positioning on the road, you are doing it for reasons other than just the surface and I can understand that you want to make yourself as safe as possible. With that in mind it would be a lot safer to use the cycle lanes when they are provided, and the main argument for not using them is that they are in a bad state of repair.
It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
The argument about cycle lanes is that they are 9/10 a box-ticking exercise by local councils, and very rarely do they do anything to make cyclists journeys safer or faster.It just grates a bit that this argument is used by people sitting on race bikes
Example. Here is a cycle lane that runs next to the road on the pavement: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.457299,-0.253367&a...
Pedestrians walk on it, driveways run across it, you have to give way at every junction and then you can't turn right onto the main road at the end of it. Ride assertively on the road, and all these problems go away. Any cars over taking you, are wasting their time, as they get stuck in the traffic jam at the end of the road. It doesn't stop them from making an impotent over-take anyway.
That's the equivalent of using many cycle lanes. They are designed to segregate the traffic and when they meet a road there has to be priority given. Inevitably that's given to the road, not the cycle lane, so the cyclist has to stop and negotiate either joining the road or crossing to the next section of cycle lane. That's especially true of the National Cycle routes which often have barriers to negotiate when you get to the end of a section.
As Mr Gear says, if you use the road instead of the cycle lane you don't have that whole mess to deal with and you maintain your progress.
Around my area the cycle lanes are inevitably in the 'door zone'. I don't use them. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Glasgow+G43&hl...
Mr Gear said:
The argument about cycle lanes is that they are 9/10 a box-ticking exercise by local councils, and very rarely do they do anything to make cyclists journeys safer or faster.
Yup. Plenty of fine examples here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility...
Mr Gear said:
Example. Here is a cycle lane that runs next to the road on the pavement: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.457299,-0.253367&a...
Pedestrians walk on it, driveways run across it, you have to give way at every junction and then you can't turn right onto the main road at the end of it. Ride assertively on the road, and all these problems go away. Any cars over taking you, are wasting their time, as they get stuck in the traffic jam at the end of the road. It doesn't stop them from making an impotent over-take anyway.
See, that is a pefect example for what annoys most car drivers. If the road was busy I would want to cycle on that lane so that I didnt have to work my way around the cars, if the road was quiet I would want to cycle in that lane because it would be safer and I wouldnt be inconveniencing other vehicles.Pedestrians walk on it, driveways run across it, you have to give way at every junction and then you can't turn right onto the main road at the end of it. Ride assertively on the road, and all these problems go away. Any cars over taking you, are wasting their time, as they get stuck in the traffic jam at the end of the road. It doesn't stop them from making an impotent over-take anyway.
Your last sentance suggests that you dont want to cycle in that lane because it will slow you down at junctions and you just want to put your head down and have right of way, whislt not caring if you slow down other road users. It may be the case that they are wasting their time if there is traffic ahead, but the amount of times there isnt traffic ahead and a cyclist will be doing something like this is quite considerable.
As for potholes and the like, the wheels on my mtb are nice and straight and the only smooth surface it ever sees is when I wheel it out to the car and throw it in the back
Im not arguing with you all, I know why you do these things and I would too if I rode on the road, its just the explanations and excuses that you try leave me wondering if you actually believe it yourselves.
You buy the bikes that you do because they are the best tool for what you want to do, cycle as quick as possible with the least effort. This also means that you will use the road in most cases because it enables you to cycle as quick as possible with the least effort, because you are cycling in the road you take up the position that you do because it is the safest option. Everything is a compromise and you have found your place between safety and speed. If you chose to lean closer to the safety aspect you would be riding a mtb slowly on cyclepaths, so dont try to kid us that you are riding on the road because it is safer
1878 said:
yep seen before, too many cycle lanes are less useful than the road.What theyve done there is taken some of the road space that would have used by cyclists and tried to add it to the pavement. The green box would have been on the old kerb line
Crazy cycle lanes is a different argument to taking most of the road space
BFG TERRANO said:
I'm an occasional cyclist but mainly car driver. I've noticed just how far from the kerb they cycle? Why? Even on good quality surfaces they are getting about a metre from the kerb.
Edited by saaby93 on Sunday 7th October 12:26
hornetrider said:
Nowt wrong with 1m from the kerb.
The distance a car driver is supposed to be from the kerb is about 1m to allow room for cyclists isn't it? This is what I remember from learning to drive, probably b
ks. I do realise that technially the cyclist can be anywhere on the road they choose, but 1m seems a bit far out to avoid drains.ETA: Before all the cyclists come at me with pitchforks, I always pass a bike on the opposite side of the road as if it were a car. I'm merely saying that 1m seems like a lot.
Edited by MSTRBKR on Sunday 7th October 12:30
Also, bikes can easily drift left/right by a foot or so quite easily (bikes can se sensitive to steering/lean inputs etc.) so if you are too close to kerb, you could easily hit it and fall off. Far safer to have a bit of leeway so that if you stumble a bit to the left, you can retain control.
saaby93 said:
Arent the rules changing to give half a cars width rather than same clearance (a foot or so?) as you would a car?
I don't read the 'old' advice as meaning that. To me, it says pull out far enough to clear a car and then pass the bike. The Highway Code pictures show this clearly. 4key said:
See, that is a pefect example for what annoys most car drivers. If the road was busy I would want to cycle on that lane so that I didnt have to work my way around the cars, if the road was quiet I would want to cycle in that lane because it would be safer and I wouldnt be inconveniencing other vehicles.
Your last sentance suggests that you dont want to cycle in that lane because it will slow you down at junctions and you just want to put your head down and have right of way, whislt not caring if you slow down other road users. It may be the case that they are wasting their time if there is traffic ahead, but the amount of times there isnt traffic ahead and a cyclist will be doing something like this is quite considerable.
As for potholes and the like, the wheels on my mtb are nice and straight and the only smooth surface it ever sees is when I wheel it out to the car and throw it in the back
Im not arguing with you all, I know why you do these things and I would too if I rode on the road, its just the explanations and excuses that you try leave me wondering if you actually believe it yourselves.
You buy the bikes that you do because they are the best tool for what you want to do, cycle as quick as possible with the least effort. This also means that you will use the road in most cases because it enables you to cycle as quick as possible with the least effort, because you are cycling in the road you take up the position that you do because it is the safest option. Everything is a compromise and you have found your place between safety and speed. If you chose to lean closer to the safety aspect you would be riding a mtb slowly on cyclepaths, so dont try to kid us that you are riding on the road because it is safer
I do as much mountain biking as I do road biking. But on the road bike I am often traveling close to the speed limit anyway, therefore anyone waiting behind me will not suffer much delay, and even when they do overtake, they don't stay ahead of me for long... Traffic as it is.Your last sentance suggests that you dont want to cycle in that lane because it will slow you down at junctions and you just want to put your head down and have right of way, whislt not caring if you slow down other road users. It may be the case that they are wasting their time if there is traffic ahead, but the amount of times there isnt traffic ahead and a cyclist will be doing something like this is quite considerable.
As for potholes and the like, the wheels on my mtb are nice and straight and the only smooth surface it ever sees is when I wheel it out to the car and throw it in the back
Im not arguing with you all, I know why you do these things and I would too if I rode on the road, its just the explanations and excuses that you try leave me wondering if you actually believe it yourselves.
You buy the bikes that you do because they are the best tool for what you want to do, cycle as quick as possible with the least effort. This also means that you will use the road in most cases because it enables you to cycle as quick as possible with the least effort, because you are cycling in the road you take up the position that you do because it is the safest option. Everything is a compromise and you have found your place between safety and speed. If you chose to lean closer to the safety aspect you would be riding a mtb slowly on cyclepaths, so dont try to kid us that you are riding on the road because it is safer
4key said:
See, that is a pefect example for what annoys most car drivers. If the road was busy I would want to cycle on that lane so that I didnt have to work my way around the cars, if the road was quiet I would want to cycle in that lane because it would be safer and I wouldnt be inconveniencing other vehicles.
As I said above, I tried being considerate and it nearly got me killed. So frankly, I no longer give a flying expletive-deleted how annoyed they are at having to wait. That won't be popular but it's honest.Horns said:
"give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car"
From a little book called 'The Highway Code'. It's worth a read.
+1 all the reason you should need, really.From a little book called 'The Highway Code'. It's worth a read.
Its also for all the other reasons mentioned- potholes, general road detritus, car doors being opened, dozy pedestrians...
4key said:
Im not arguing with you all, I know why you do these things and I would too if I rode on the road, its just the explanations and excuses that you try leave me wondering if you actually believe it yourselves.
You dont have an opinion on cycling, mainly becuase;4key said:
I overtake you flat out in 3rd gear with both external wastegates at full chat because I can. I will do it in a completely different lane to the one that you are in, but it still amuses to watch you recoil in horror at the speed and noise
4key said:
Oh, and they built a huge bike track in hainault. Hardly anyone uses it, they are all still on the roads and parks. Might try and take my car around it, looks like it has some good corners
4key said:
I can sit for an hour in most major citys and witness more than 50 cyclists break numerous road laws, London is rife with the mentalists
4key said:
The ones that I think are s though are the self rightous pricks who are on there because it is their hobby, why do you think that you have a right to use the road? What you are doing is antisocial. If I decided that my hobby was to drive around below the speed limit, then I would expect to be called a . I would also feel shame every time that I held another vehicle up
4key said:
Percentage wise yes, most cyclists consistantly break every traffic rule they can at every oppotunity, because they are not accountable.
Percentage wise, per user, i would say more cyclists on the road cause more accidents than cars. Its the same as with motorcyclists, theres less of them but they make up a higher percentage of casulty for their numbers.
If you are cycling to commute, fair enough. If you are doing it for exercise or sport or whatever.. fk off and do it somewhere other that the road, as it is these ones that cause the most hassle riding in their self rightous groups
I wish people like you didn't exist, its what makes the roads more dangerous than they need to be.Percentage wise, per user, i would say more cyclists on the road cause more accidents than cars. Its the same as with motorcyclists, theres less of them but they make up a higher percentage of casulty for their numbers.
If you are cycling to commute, fair enough. If you are doing it for exercise or sport or whatever.. fk off and do it somewhere other that the road, as it is these ones that cause the most hassle riding in their self rightous groups
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