Licence or ban cycling in London

[Type R Tom]

It’s quite ironic that the OP uses NYC as an example, from my experience we are at a real risk of being left behind by the Americans when it comes to physical cycling infrastructure. Sad really.

Almost every single tired cliché that gets spouted by anti-cyclists can be countered; a good one is jumping red lights. Have a look at the number of peds hurt by cars jumping reds then the same for cyclists. “Road Tax” is another.

In London and cites as a whole there are too many private individuals using private cars for journeys that a viable alternative can be used. Maybe once a week you need to go shopping or take your aunt to the doctor but with the average journey about 7 miles in this country there are a lot of people who can potentially cycle.

Just imagine what the roads in towns would look like if everyone cycled just one day a week, it would certainly allow that Amazon van delivering a memory card to get there quicker!

[gazza285]

Yipper said:

Rich_W said:

Yipper said:

Cycling is by far the most dangerous form of mass-transport. It causes many unneccesary road deaths and irreversibly damages the male reproductive system. It is a mystery that more countries or authorities do not license, restrict more, or ban it.

Here's some facts for your bullst
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

2013
Fatalities on the Roads of the UK
Car Occupant 785
Cyclist 109

Just for balance

Pedestrian deaths 398

Lets ban the one that cause the most deaths. Would be a real winner.

Lol.

Cycling is 5 to 15 times more deadly than driving a car.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29878233

All those figures are so small in relation to the numbers of journeys made as to be an insignificant risk. Per mile, motorcycling is far more dangerous, and in 2015, being a pedestrian was more dangerous per mile than being a cyclist, so which one are you wanting to ban again?

[joema]

Millions wasted?

How many billions are spent on improving roads for your car sized motorbike?

[battered]

heebeegeetee said:

I think arguing that one section of society should obey the laws that everybody else breaks is stupid. It's not going to happen it's not in human nature.

There is probably no bigger law-breaking section of people on the planet than car drivers. I know that in my 40 years of driving I don't think I've obeyed all speed limits on so much as one single journey.

Where the hell does this expectation come from, a huge section of people globally all breaking laws while at the same time expecting others to obey all laws? It's barking.

It’s human nature. We all want to string up dole fiddlers and tax evaders, but how many of us have *never* paid cash for a job, put a few extra miles on a mileage claim, or similar? By the same token, drunken aholes shouting the odds in the street want locking up, but when I sang “4 and 20” outside the pub at my mate’s stag do last year it was just a bit of harmless fun. People move out of London and go to Spain because “England’s not fit to live in, full of bloody foreigners”. Because Spain isn’t, clearly. And who’s a foreigner now? So it goes on. We all want the rules applied when it suits us.

[Yipper]

gazza285 said:

Yipper said:

Rich_W said:

Yipper said:

Cycling is by far the most dangerous form of mass-transport. It causes many unneccesary road deaths and irreversibly damages the male reproductive system. It is a mystery that more countries or authorities do not license, restrict more, or ban it.

Here's some facts for your bullst
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

2013
Fatalities on the Roads of the UK
Car Occupant 785
Cyclist 109

Just for balance

Pedestrian deaths 398

Lets ban the one that cause the most deaths. Would be a real winner.

Lol.

Cycling is 5 to 15 times more deadly than driving a car.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29878233

All those figures are so small in relation to the numbers of journeys made as to be an insignificant risk. Per mile, motorcycling is far more dangerous, and in 2015, being a pedestrian was more dangerous per mile than being a cyclist, so which one are you wanting to ban again?

Cars = 2 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedestrians = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedal Cyclists = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Motorcyclists = 114 deaths per billion vehicle miles.

Pedal cycling is more dangerous than walking. Cycling stands out as being a major killer. Surprised cycling is not yet licensed.

[Kell]

There's a great little film on Amazon Prime at the minute called, simply, Bicycle.

In it, there's a whole section on how in the 60s and 70s town planning deliberately excluded bikes from their plans and that's why it's such a struggle to change things retrospectively. Partly because many new roads were designed with only motoer vehicles in mind and partly, as a knock on effect, because everyone who grew up then now believes that roads are only for cars.

[battered]

Yipper said:

Cars = 2 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedestrians = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedal Cyclists = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Motorcyclists = 114 deaths per billion vehicle miles.

Pedal cycling is more dangerous than walking. Cycling stands out as being a major killer. Surprised cycling is not yet licensed.

Since when? 34 per billion is THE SAME as 34 per billion. So why aren't we licencing shoe leather?

[gazza285]

battered said:

Yipper said:

Cars = 2 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedestrians = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedal Cyclists = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Motorcyclists = 114 deaths per billion vehicle miles.

Pedal cycling is more dangerous than walking. Cycling stands out as being a major killer. Surprised cycling is not yet licensed.

Since when? 34 per billion is THE SAME as 34 per billion. So why aren't we licencing shoe leather?

I think he might be special.

[Kermit power]

battered said:

Yipper said:

Cars = 2 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedestrians = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedal Cyclists = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Motorcyclists = 114 deaths per billion vehicle miles.

Pedal cycling is more dangerous than walking. Cycling stands out as being a major killer. Surprised cycling is not yet licensed.

Since when? 34 per billion is THE SAME as 34 per billion. So why aren't we licencing shoe leather?

And that's before you consider the percentage of time pedestrians spend actually on roads vs cyclists!

Seems like walking is bloody lethal!

[joema]

Only more dangerous because the vehicle has wiped them out.

[heebeegeetee]

Yipper said:

Cars = 2 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedestrians = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Pedal Cyclists = 34 deaths per billion vehicle miles;
Motorcyclists = 114 deaths per billion vehicle miles.

Pedal cycling is more dangerous than walking. Cycling stands out as being a major killer. Surprised cycling is not yet licensed.

All of those figures pale into insignificance against killers such as heart disease, obesity etc. Exercise is probably the biggest defence against societies biggest killer, and it's an exercise you can whilst travelling.

To say cycling is a major killer is just trolling, and the complete reverse of the truth.

[NatAsp]

heebeegeetee said:

All of those figures pale into insignificance against killers such as heart disease, obesity etc. Exercise is probably the biggest defence against societies biggest killer, and it's an exercise you can whilst travelling.

To say cycling is a major killer is just trolling, and the complete reverse of the truth.

Exactly, these numbers are totally irrelevant when you consider the knock-on effects on health. It's comparing apples vs oranges. The fact that people fail to recognise this is beyond idiotic, a phrase that lends itself very well to this thread.

[WinstonWolf]

numtumfutunch said:

upsidedownmark said:

Er, don't feed the trolls?

Besides, the OP rides a GS, therefore is a complete ttwaffle, wannabe euan mcgregor, gets in everyones way by not being able to filter and should shove his oversized touratech paniers up his a**e ;p

Thats a bit strong

I bet in reality he has a GSX600F in beige, or possibly yellow

Bet he's never had his knee down either... Calls himself a biker

[battered]

Pfft. I’ve had my knee down on a bicycle, on black ice. Shortly followed by my hand, elbow, shoulder, hip and the back of my helmet scraping down the road as I laid on my back and looked at the sky.

[WinstonWolf]

Ah yes, the old cornering confidence rule

[thiscocks]

Kell said:

There's a great little film on Amazon Prime at the minute called, simply, Bicycle.

In it, there's a whole section on how in the 60s and 70s town planning deliberately excluded bikes from their plans and that's why it's such a struggle to change things retrospectively. Partly because many new roads were designed with only motoer vehicles in mind and partly, as a knock on effect, because everyone who grew up then now believes that roads are only for cars.

Yep sounds about right. Explains how many 'mature' drivers who seem so enraged just at the sight of a cyclist let alone if they have to, god forbid, wait for a couple of seconds behind one.

[Pothole]

stuttgartmetal said:

Rich_W said:

Here's some facts for your bullst


2013.
Fatalities on the Roads of the UK
Car Occupant 785
Cyclist 109

Just for balance

Pedestrian deaths 398

The most common near miss I encounter on my commute is pedestrians
Usually they are looking the wrong way, or are in another world on their phone, or just standing in the traffic.
They even look straight at me, and then step in front of 350kg of yellow BMW with me on it.
They do come to, by then they're usually nearly under the bike
I don't steer round them, I anchor up.

However look at the data you've thrown up there
As a percentage of road deaths , looking at proportionality, look how large that numbers or cyclists deaths is
Do you see?

Hundreds of thousands of pedestrians, millions, 400 deaths
Are there a quarter of the number of pedestrians on cycles
Are there
Hmm?
No.
That's right
No
It's a far smaller number
A fraction of the number of pedestrians
Maybe as few as one in a hundred of the daytime population of London go there on a pushbike.
Looked at in relation to the data it magnifies the issue
Do you see that ?
It follows by that ratio the number of deaths is around 10,000/400
Or 25 times.
I'm just pulling figures out of the air here, but you can see the sketch there, can!t you?
Hmm.
[Figures for road deaths in London in 2013 pedestrian.and cyclist were 65 and 14 respectively
Almost the same ratio to the number you quote 4:1 ]

And licence wise, these should issued by TfL
After proficiency standards are met
These could be governed and cycling disqualification in urban areas could be enforced upon the riders who can't ride safely
Safely.
Nothing to do with cars or motorcycle
It's a different thing altogether

Edited by stuttgartmetal on Sunday 15th January 23:16

Who do you suggest polices these rules and bans? The current police force numbers are insufficient to deal with enforcing current road regs.

[Banana Boy]

Rich_W said:

... https://twitter.com/BoxbikeLondon/status/818469429... ...

Put this lot in Cars instead of on their bike. See how the capital works then!

This video is clearly staged! Everyone knows that cyclists don't stop at red lights!

Edited by Banana Boy on Monday 16th January 17:55

[popeyewhite]

heebeegeetee said:

popeyewhite said:

Arguing that everybody else knows the rules but disobeys them just the same is stupid. If that's what you were suggesting.

I think arguing that one section of society should obey the laws that everybody else breaks is stupid. It's not going to happen it's not in human nature.

There is probably no bigger law-breaking section of people on the planet than car drivers. I know that in my 40 years of driving I don't think I've obeyed all speed limits on so much as one single journey.

Where the hell does this expectation come from, a huge section of people globally all breaking laws while at the same time expecting others to obey all laws? It's barking.

What's barking is people responding to posts without even reading them first.

[popeyewhite]

okgo said:

From what I can tell you're saying more people break the law on bikes because its easier to do so. Yes, it is easier,

Thank you. No need for getting carried away or insults. My comment is entirely subjective as a pushbike/motorbike/car user and doesn't really require the orthodox embittered 'yes but cars are equally if not more guilty etc etc' standardised response.