Fool basically got himself convicted of manslaughter
Discussion
So the recreation of this accident involved plod on a mountain bike with disc brakes? 
And a point that I read in the Cycling Lawyer link -
'I do wonder if she was in her car instead of on foot she also would have pulled out in front of this cyclist and possibly killed him.'
A tragic set of circumstances, let's hope we all learn something from it.
And a point that I read in the Cycling Lawyer link -
'I do wonder if she was in her car instead of on foot she also would have pulled out in front of this cyclist and possibly killed him.'
A tragic set of circumstances, let's hope we all learn something from it.
okgo said:
Yep.
But its typical DM s
te. It adds or means nothing.
Anyway, which this has got so much press I'll never know. As someone pointed out, while this trial went on 35 peds were killed by cars...
How many of those car drivers at fault were driving a car with defective brakes, refused to accept it was their fault, showed no remorse and posted insensitive things on social media?But its typical DM s
te. It adds or means nothing.Anyway, which this has got so much press I'll never know. As someone pointed out, while this trial went on 35 peds were killed by cars...
havoc said:
m444ttb said:
If he was genuinely ignorant of his bike not being road legal...
Would that wash with a car driver? e.g. "I removed the ABS as I can brake better without it, your honour!" ?!?
As the victim's husband said "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"...
I've ridden a fixie on the road, it wasn't safe at any speed regardless of how the offender saw himself skillwise on his.
Seight_Returns said:
More like ....
"I removed the brake discs and calipers and the brake pedal as engine braking is the braking I need, your honour!"
There's been plenty of cases of drivers switching traction control off, and then crashing. I seem to recall wotsisname Wright, the footballer, recounting such an instance on Top Gear. I don't recall him being condemned by the audience for doing so. "I removed the brake discs and calipers and the brake pedal as engine braking is the braking I need, your honour!"
heebeegeetee said:
There's been plenty of cases of drivers switching traction control off, and then crashing. I seem to recall wotsisname Wright, the footballer, recounting such an instance on Top Gear. I don't recall him being condemned by the audience for doing so.
But he might have been if he killed a woman, then blamed her for it no? _dobbo_ said:
But he might have been if he killed a woman, then blamed her for it no?
Well, when crashing a car you're out of control and have no control over whether you kill or harm anyone or not, so it may be that no-one gets hurt, but that's down to chance, not the driver. And on the topic of blame, it's extremely common when two parties collide, to immediately set about blaming each other.
havoc said:
Would that wash with a car driver?
e.g. "I removed the ABS as I can brake better without it, your honour!" ?!?
As the victim's husband said "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"...
If you ever experienced the ABS in a VX220 you would understand how dangerous it is to leave it on!e.g. "I removed the ABS as I can brake better without it, your honour!" ?!?
As the victim's husband said "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"...
heebeegeetee said:
Seight_Returns said:
More like ....
"I removed the brake discs and calipers and the brake pedal as engine braking is the braking I need, your honour!"
There's been plenty of cases of drivers switching traction control off, and then crashing. I seem to recall wotsisname Wright, the footballer, recounting such an instance on Top Gear. I don't recall him being condemned by the audience for doing so. "I removed the brake discs and calipers and the brake pedal as engine braking is the braking I need, your honour!"
Or did he alter the technical electronic assistance that comes into play when traction is sometimes lost on bends?
Right. So?
Sa Calobra said:
Hi he switched his front brakes completely off?
Or did he alter the technical electronic assistance that comes into play when traction is sometimes lost on bends?
Right. So?
I couldn't remember exactly so had to google it and found the video: Or did he alter the technical electronic assistance that comes into play when traction is sometimes lost on bends?
Right. So?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oou0g
I remember seeing it at the time and my wife and I at least appreciated his honesty, but basically it's a tale of blatant illegality including drug-driving and the rest of it, and then went on to recount the time he turned the tc off in his Ferrari which meant it immediately mounted a pavement and smashed into a telegraph pole or something - all of which was celebrated by the audience.
My point is, I'm picking up suggestions that drivers wouldn't do anything so stupid as to remove brakes. Well no, they don't have to get the hands dirty, the car manufacturers will provide switches to disable safety systems, and I know the tale is a common one with a common result.
I've already posted a link to a YouTube vlogger (I believe that's the vernacular
) whereby he tells us he's replaced his M3's brake pads for some really good brake pads - and then we get to see how much longer it now takes his BMW to stop, compared to a standard model. https://youtu.be/OakZc3RsSGc
Edited by heebeegeetee on Sunday 27th August 00:10
heebeegeetee said:
I couldn't remember exactly so had to google it and found the video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oou0g
I remember seeing it at the time and my wife and I at least appreciated his honesty, but basically it's a tale of blatant illegality including drug-driving and the rest of it, and then went on to recount the time he turned the tc off in his Ferrari which meant it immediately mounted a pavement and smashed into a telegraph pole or something - all of which was celebrated by the audience.
A knuckle dragging footballer switched of the traction control in his supercar and was unable to control it. That is hardly the same thing; it's not illegal to switch off traction control for starters, and disabling TC does not disable ABS.http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oou0g
I remember seeing it at the time and my wife and I at least appreciated his honesty, but basically it's a tale of blatant illegality including drug-driving and the rest of it, and then went on to recount the time he turned the tc off in his Ferrari which meant it immediately mounted a pavement and smashed into a telegraph pole or something - all of which was celebrated by the audience.
heebeegeetee said:
My point is, I'm picking up suggestions that drivers wouldn't do anything so stupid as to remove brakes. Well no, they don't have to get the hands dirty, the car manufacturers will provide switches to disable safety systems, and I know the tale is a common one with a common result.
Your point is irrelevant. Manufacturers provide a button to disable TC on some cars because this can be useful in some situations and it's not illegal. It doesn't compromise stopping distances. If someone is driving so badly on a public road that it's only the traction control saving them from disaster then it's their driving that needs to be fixed, not the inclusion of a button to disable traction control.heebeegeetee said:
I've already posted a link to a YouTube vlogger (I believe that's the vernacular ) whereby he tells us he's replaced his M3's brake pads for some really good brake pads - and then we get to see how much longer it now takes his BMW to stop, compared to a standard model.
https://youtu.be/OakZc3RsSGc
Another bit of misleading misinformation. There was no comparison between the E92 M3 with new brake pads and one with standard brake pads, there were three different cars, each driven by their owners so it was hardly a rigorously executed test to start with. ) whereby he tells us he's replaced his M3's brake pads for some really good brake pads - and then we get to see how much longer it now takes his BMW to stop, compared to a standard model. https://youtu.be/OakZc3RsSGc
The M3 owner also said he'd just fitted the pads and they hadn't yet been bedded in. If you had ever fitted even standard pads you'd know that you don't get full braking efficiency until they are bedded in, especially if the discs aren't changed at the same time. Performance pads tend to have quite specific bedding in processes to allow them to perform to their best.
Mr2Mike said:
heebeegeetee said:
I couldn't remember exactly so had to google it and found the video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oou0g
I remember seeing it at the time and my wife and I at least appreciated his honesty, but basically it's a tale of blatant illegality including drug-driving and the rest of it, and then went on to recount the time he turned the tc off in his Ferrari which meant it immediately mounted a pavement and smashed into a telegraph pole or something - all of which was celebrated by the audience.
A knuckle dragging footballer switched of the traction control in his supercar and was unable to control it. That is hardly the same thing; it's not illegal to switch off traction control for starters, and disabling TC does not disable ABS.http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oou0g
I remember seeing it at the time and my wife and I at least appreciated his honesty, but basically it's a tale of blatant illegality including drug-driving and the rest of it, and then went on to recount the time he turned the tc off in his Ferrari which meant it immediately mounted a pavement and smashed into a telegraph pole or something - all of which was celebrated by the audience.
heebeegeetee said:
My point is, I'm picking up suggestions that drivers wouldn't do anything so stupid as to remove brakes. Well no, they don't have to get the hands dirty, the car manufacturers will provide switches to disable safety systems, and I know the tale is a common one with a common result.
Your point is irrelevant. Manufacturers provide a button to disable TC on some cars because this can be useful in some situations and it's not illegal. It doesn't compromise stopping distances. If someone is driving so badly on a public road that it's only the traction control saving them from disaster then it's their driving that needs to be fixed, not the inclusion of a button to disable traction control.heebeegeetee said:
I've already posted a link to a YouTube vlogger (I believe that's the vernacular ) whereby he tells us he's replaced his M3's brake pads for some really good brake pads - and then we get to see how much longer it now takes his BMW to stop, compared to a standard model.
https://youtu.be/OakZc3RsSGc
Another bit of misleading misinformation. There was no comparison between the E92 M3 with new brake pads and one with standard brake pads, there were three different cars, each driven by their owners so it was hardly a rigorously executed test to start with. ) whereby he tells us he's replaced his M3's brake pads for some really good brake pads - and then we get to see how much longer it now takes his BMW to stop, compared to a standard model. https://youtu.be/OakZc3RsSGc
The M3 owner also said he'd just fitted the pads and they hadn't yet been bedded in. If you had ever fitted even standard pads you'd know that you don't get full braking efficiency until they are bedded in, especially if the discs aren't changed at the same time. Performance pads tend to have quite specific bedding in processes to allow them to perform to their best.
A question though: when you take to the roads with your family or children, (particularly as pedestrians), does it give you any comfort or is it of any help, to know that it's not illegal to turn off tc, or that "performance" brake pads need a specific bedding in process, so that they can drive on roads that will have a maximum speed limit of 70 mph or considerably less?
You seem very comfortable with all of this, yet its vehicles that kill 400 peds a year. As has been said, you seem to be inured to this, possibly most motorists are.
Re fitting brake pads, I have a garage business, we're fitting them all the time. I'm very familiar with how they operate when replaced. I take your point re changing discs as well, but if the guy didn't change the discs then his actions have indeed caused his braking distance to greatly lengthen. However, according to his video channel, the discs were also changed.
I'm massively sceptical that a new set of standard pads and discs would increase the braking distance like that. I may do the exercise myself out of interest to find out. Don't forget in the video he's had to drive to that location, so I'm surprised that the brakes are as bad as they are, at just 60mph.
In fairness the guy is only doing what countless enthusiasts do. Indeed countless enthusiasts bolt no end of s
t to their cars. These actions (along with turning off tc etc) may not be illegal but that doesn't make it right, and the mounting of the pavement and burying his car into a lamppost as a consequence of turning the tc off, was indeed illegal.
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