29er XC Hardtail recommendations
Discussion
Hi. I'm looking to get back into mountain biking and would like a 29er Hardtail. I'm not looking to do anything too serious - around the likes of Cannock Chase for an afternoon a couple of times a month.
I've got around £1K to spend give to take a few hundred quid, this has caught my eye as it appears to be decent spec for the money:
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/fathom-29er-2-20...
Willing to buy second hand. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Cheers
I've got around £1K to spend give to take a few hundred quid, this has caught my eye as it appears to be decent spec for the money:
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/fathom-29er-2-20...
Willing to buy second hand. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Cheers
https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/grand-canyon/gran...
Can't recommend them highly enough.
The hard tails are slightly odd looking things - the larger sizes come as 29ers
12.8kg - not a bad starting weight either.
£899 inc shipping.
11 speed - All Slx kit with Mavic rims, rock shox up front and Shimano brakes.
That would tick all the boxes for me.
Can't recommend them highly enough.
The hard tails are slightly odd looking things - the larger sizes come as 29ers
12.8kg - not a bad starting weight either.
£899 inc shipping.
11 speed - All Slx kit with Mavic rims, rock shox up front and Shimano brakes.
That would tick all the boxes for me.
Just be aware that grand canyon is an XC biased machine, 70 degree HA and 110mm stem... 
Not for me personally.
I'd be looking for something with a 66-68 degree HA and 50mm ish stem. It may climb 98% as fast as an XC hardtail but you'll have more fun going down.
Vitus sentier would be worth a look, 2017 ones are cheap on CRC -
better fork, 130mm travel, through axles F&R (QR on the canyon) http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-sen... or the 2018 models will be available in the next few weeks.
Or if you're happy to go 27.5+ (with the option of 29) there's the Commencal meta HT AM, full SRAM NX, better fork then the canyon with 150mm travel, full boost spacing (same as the Vitus 2018 models) and and an even slacker 65 degree HA
https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/Mobile/meta-ht-a...
Not for me personally.
I'd be looking for something with a 66-68 degree HA and 50mm ish stem. It may climb 98% as fast as an XC hardtail but you'll have more fun going down.
Vitus sentier would be worth a look, 2017 ones are cheap on CRC -
better fork, 130mm travel, through axles F&R (QR on the canyon) http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-sen... or the 2018 models will be available in the next few weeks.
Or if you're happy to go 27.5+ (with the option of 29) there's the Commencal meta HT AM, full SRAM NX, better fork then the canyon with 150mm travel, full boost spacing (same as the Vitus 2018 models) and and an even slacker 65 degree HA
https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/Mobile/meta-ht-a...Edited by Tall_Paul on Friday 3rd November 23:24
There's a lot to it and you'll see 3 main types of bike now - XC, Trail and Enduro/All Mountain. Have a google on 'long, low and slack' geometry. Everything has changed since I last did MTB 15 years ago too!
XC bikes like the grand canyon will have long stem, narrower bars, short travel fork, steep head angle (69+degrees). They will be very fast uphill and are designed for winning races, however on downhills, a high speed or anything tricky they will be twitchy, and not confidence inspiring. The Giant you linked intially is also an XC biased bike, 69 degree HA and 80ish mm stem.
An enduro bike on the other hand (which tends to be a FS but applies to Hardtails too) is designed for riding enduro races which consist of 6-10 stages in a day (downhill sections a few minutes long) with transitions between the stages, normally big, long climbs. So they go downhill VERY fast, but still climb ok. They will have slack head angles (65 degrees), 150-170mm travel, a long top tube, and low bottom bracket, with a long wheelbase - long low and slack. To make the reach to the bars the same, they have short (under 50mm) stems and wide bars (760mm+).
Enduro/AM hardtail - Commencal Meta HT AM 2018 https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/meta-ht-am-origi...
A trail bike is a comprimise between the 2 and are designed for general trail riding, up and down. they will have the same long/low/slack geometry but less extreme than an enduro bike, 66-68 head angle. The same wide bars and short stem, less travel than the enduro at 130-150mm (ish) and will climb a bit better. This is the type of bike you want.
Long post -sorry!
Basically, an XC bike will be a whippet up hill (but going up will be limited by your fitness!) but won't give you a lot of confidence when riding tricky sections or going downhill, something with a slightly slacker head angle and longer top tube will give you a longer wheelbase, which will be much more stable at speed and a hell of a lot more confidence when riding on the fun stuff. Which when you're getting back into MTB is what you need.
You should be looking for something with 65-68 head angle, 130mm or more travel, a short 50mm stem and 740-760mm wide bars.
If you can, try and hire out a bike, a lot of the trail centres will have decent bikes and they'll tend to be more trail rather than XC biased bikes. And definitely get some demo rides, you may not even want a 29er, 27.5+ makes a lot of sense on a hardtail, the bigger tyres will give a bit more comfort and they're almost the same radius as a 29er wheel and tyre.
Have a watch of this, a roadie bought a grand canyon MTB and crashes a lot... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moW_UXheTWY - they put him on a trail FS bike and (ignoring the FS bit) he then didn't feel out of control going down or on tricky sections.
Nothing will put you off riding like crashing or not feeling any confidence on downhill sections, an all round trail bike might be a little slower going uphill but you'll have a lot more fun when it starts going down.
Oh, and get a dropper post!!! Most hardtails at about a grand won't include one but they're brilliant, once you've ridden with one you won't want a bike without one.
And one last thing, if you can, get a 1x bike (single fromt chainring), with the 11 speed rear cassettes there's no need for a front mech now, makes it a lot simpler and easier to maintain.
XC bikes like the grand canyon will have long stem, narrower bars, short travel fork, steep head angle (69+degrees). They will be very fast uphill and are designed for winning races, however on downhills, a high speed or anything tricky they will be twitchy, and not confidence inspiring. The Giant you linked intially is also an XC biased bike, 69 degree HA and 80ish mm stem.
An enduro bike on the other hand (which tends to be a FS but applies to Hardtails too) is designed for riding enduro races which consist of 6-10 stages in a day (downhill sections a few minutes long) with transitions between the stages, normally big, long climbs. So they go downhill VERY fast, but still climb ok. They will have slack head angles (65 degrees), 150-170mm travel, a long top tube, and low bottom bracket, with a long wheelbase - long low and slack.
To make the reach to the bars the same, they have short (under 50mm) stems and wide bars (760mm+). Enduro/AM hardtail - Commencal Meta HT AM 2018 https://www.commencal-store.co.uk/meta-ht-am-origi...
A trail bike is a comprimise between the 2 and are designed for general trail riding, up and down. they will have the same long/low/slack geometry but less extreme than an enduro bike, 66-68 head angle. The same wide bars and short stem, less travel than the enduro at 130-150mm (ish) and will climb a bit better. This is the type of bike you want.
Long post -sorry!
Basically, an XC bike will be a whippet up hill (but going up will be limited by your fitness!) but won't give you a lot of confidence when riding tricky sections or going downhill, something with a slightly slacker head angle and longer top tube will give you a longer wheelbase, which will be much more stable at speed and a hell of a lot more confidence when riding on the fun stuff. Which when you're getting back into MTB is what you need.
You should be looking for something with 65-68 head angle, 130mm or more travel, a short 50mm stem and 740-760mm wide bars.
If you can, try and hire out a bike, a lot of the trail centres will have decent bikes and they'll tend to be more trail rather than XC biased bikes. And definitely get some demo rides, you may not even want a 29er, 27.5+ makes a lot of sense on a hardtail, the bigger tyres will give a bit more comfort and they're almost the same radius as a 29er wheel and tyre.
Have a watch of this, a roadie bought a grand canyon MTB and crashes a lot... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moW_UXheTWY - they put him on a trail FS bike and (ignoring the FS bit) he then didn't feel out of control going down or on tricky sections.
Nothing will put you off riding like crashing or not feeling any confidence on downhill sections, an all round trail bike might be a little slower going uphill but you'll have a lot more fun when it starts going down.
Oh, and get a dropper post!!! Most hardtails at about a grand won't include one but they're brilliant, once you've ridden with one you won't want a bike without one.
And one last thing, if you can, get a 1x bike (single fromt chainring), with the 11 speed rear cassettes there's no need for a front mech now, makes it a lot simpler and easier to maintain.
Edited by Tall_Paul on Saturday 4th November 12:14
Great post there by Tall_Paul
However knowing Cannock as I do - if you are just doing the Dog and the Monkey trails I wouldnt get too hung up about a dropper seatpost at this stage. There are only 2 / 3 sections where one makes like easier. Its a big expense / luxury for little use. They are however a life saver on really steep drops and downhills.
Having had a dropper for 4 years (and really trying to look after them) the general consensus is within our group they will inevitably start playing up / malfunction at some point. My first RockShox stealth dropper was recalled within 18 months and the 2nd is now playing up after 12 months and minimal use. My hard tail doesnt have a dropper and I frequently ride Cannock with no problems.. (however - I did find wheel size more of an issue there.. see below)
How tall are you OP? Just echoing what T_P said above - I'm just under 6 foot and find my 29er is a bit overwheeled for tight trails amongst trees (Cannock!) and tend to favor my 27.5. The 29er hardtail is great for a mix of road and towpath style rides - it covers non technical ground fast. But when I got in between the trees and on the twisty bits I often found the front wheel clipping my toes.
However knowing Cannock as I do - if you are just doing the Dog and the Monkey trails I wouldnt get too hung up about a dropper seatpost at this stage. There are only 2 / 3 sections where one makes like easier. Its a big expense / luxury for little use. They are however a life saver on really steep drops and downhills.
Having had a dropper for 4 years (and really trying to look after them) the general consensus is within our group they will inevitably start playing up / malfunction at some point. My first RockShox stealth dropper was recalled within 18 months and the 2nd is now playing up after 12 months and minimal use. My hard tail doesnt have a dropper and I frequently ride Cannock with no problems.. (however - I did find wheel size more of an issue there.. see below)
How tall are you OP? Just echoing what T_P said above - I'm just under 6 foot and find my 29er is a bit overwheeled for tight trails amongst trees (Cannock!) and tend to favor my 27.5. The 29er hardtail is great for a mix of road and towpath style rides - it covers non technical ground fast. But when I got in between the trees and on the twisty bits I often found the front wheel clipping my toes.
Edited by Steamer on Saturday 4th November 13:03
Steamer said:
Its a big expense / luxury for little use. They are however a life saver on really steep drops and downhills.
Having had a dropper for 4 years (and really trying to look after them) the general consensus is within our group they will inevitably start playing up / malfunction at some point.
I think the RS droppers have contributed to the reputation for poor reliability, quite unfairly. I think the default dropper has now become the Brand X Ascend which can be bought for around £100 new and is utterly reliable.Having had a dropper for 4 years (and really trying to look after them) the general consensus is within our group they will inevitably start playing up / malfunction at some point.
OP, I appreciate you insist on 29 and XC but I think those two may be possible assumptions that will rob you of a lot of fun and a lot of choice.
It's fair to say that 27.5 is becoming accepted as perhaps the default choice as unless you race, 29 only seems to have disadvantages (weight, lack of agility).
As Paul eloquently said, the vital angles are actually more crucial. Head angle of around 65/66 will allow you more fun and seat angle of around 73/74 better climbing.
The sport has evolved where XC is now a small niche competitive thing and the old XC is now trail with the above numbers and aggressive, bigger tyre, plus 140 to 160mm of fork travel, even on HT.
An XC bike will be (a bit) quicker but won't be much fun in the fun bits. I'm really surprised that both Canyon and Giant still sell bikes with such steep head angles, practically medieval !
A good trail bike will be fun dh and across obstacles yet will climb incredibly well, potentially with better traction if the tyres are big enough.
I am gobsmacked how little detriment to climbing ability a long travel HT with 2.35 tyres and a bit of weight create. Negligible unless you race.
At that budget I would get a Vitus Sentier VRS 27.5 - you get 10% off with a British Cycling membership (£22), so at £800 it leaves you enough budget for a Brand X dropper and a few bits and bobs. http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitus-bikes-sen...
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 4th November 21:54
Hi guys. Thanks for your input, some really useful advice. I think I really need to try an XC Vs trail and 29 Vs 27.5 as I'm now leaning towards a trail bike. Planning to head up to Cannock Chase next Friday and hire one (or both if possible!?). Open offer if anyone fancies joining me.
BTW, I'm 45, 6ft and 15 stone if that helps! Also, the chances of me doing anything competitive are a long way off!
BTW, I'm 45, 6ft and 15 stone if that helps! Also, the chances of me doing anything competitive are a long way off!
I wouldn't get hung upon trying an XC bike (even if you can find one to rent), there's a reason people are moving to long and slack...
I went from an old XC Scott to a Whyte 901 and haven't looked back. I didn't even test ride it as impatience got the better of me. First time out I was quicker on every downhill section of my regular ride, and no slower going up.
It's massively more confidence inspiring - so I've had to learn to use my front brake.
I went from an old XC Scott to a Whyte 901 and haven't looked back. I didn't even test ride it as impatience got the better of me. First time out I was quicker on every downhill section of my regular ride, and no slower going up.
It's massively more confidence inspiring - so I've had to learn to use my front brake.That was an interesting read that chaps. Cheers.
Looks like I bought the wrong bike all those years ago and maybe why it's been consigned to the shed for the last 18months!
I've got a Scott scale 29er (can't remember the exact model without looking). It's light and fast on the flat/uphill but that's not right good fun is it.
Looks like I bought the wrong bike all those years ago and maybe why it's been consigned to the shed for the last 18months!
I've got a Scott scale 29er (can't remember the exact model without looking). It's light and fast on the flat/uphill but that's not right good fun is it.
Another vote for a trail bike, rather than an XC bike. At your budget I'd be looking at Go Outdoors and their Calibre Bossnut, it is full suspension, but gets great reviews.
For hardtails I know there are some good deals on Orange Hardtails at around £1000, they are good bikes, I'd also be looking at Whyte and Bird.
For hardtails I know there are some good deals on Orange Hardtails at around £1000, they are good bikes, I'd also be looking at Whyte and Bird.
Craikeybaby said:
Another vote for a trail bike, rather than an XC bike. At your budget I'd be looking at Go Outdoors and their Calibre Bossnut, it is full suspension, but gets great reviews.
For hardtails I know there are some good deals on Orange Hardtails at around £1000, they are good bikes, I'd also be looking at Whyte and Bird.
I was looking at the Calibre this morning, 900 quid if you can get there today! I've seen great reviews on it, and it would tempt me out of my 10 year old 26 hardtail Boardman.For hardtails I know there are some good deals on Orange Hardtails at around £1000, they are good bikes, I'd also be looking at Whyte and Bird.
Lots of information from posters so far, thank you! Personally, I wouldn't go for 1x. I hate the way the manufacturers are pushing this on us consumers, it's spreading to road bikes now where it makes even less sense. If I was buying a bike now and couldn't get it with a double or even a triple I would look elsewhere. The supposed benefits to me of 1x only make sense if you are racing, where if your chain comes off, that's the end of the event. Otherwise, I want a range of gears without huge gaps in between, and I don't mind a small amount of duplication to get that. MTBs with small front rings and massive rear cassettes just look wrong too, but that's a personal comment.
Daveyraveygravey said:
Personally, I wouldn't go for 1x. I hate the way the manufacturers are pushing this on us consumers, it's spreading to road bikes now where it makes even less sense. If I was buying a bike now and couldn't get it with a double or even a triple I would look elsewhere. The supposed benefits to me of 1x only make sense if you are racing, where if your chain comes off, that's the end of the event. Otherwise, I want a range of gears without huge gaps in between, and I don't mind a small amount of duplication to get that.
Not sure if you have much experience with 1x. There aren't any more gaps if you look at it. Range is almost identical.I don't get the bit about racing as 1x increases the risk of dropping the chain, even though it's almost zero with NW chain rings.
And I'm not even talking about the advantages (it has transformed my enjoyment of cycling). I have never met anyone who misses the front mech, but I have no issues with someone preferring one.
The manufacturers have followed the trend started 10 years ago, not pushed it.
warp9 said:
Well I think I might be spoiling myself as I've just booked Friday afternoon on a 2018 Orange Stage 5 29er! It's FS and significantly out of my original budget but should give me a good feel of a slacker setup and larger wheels. Bring it on!
At least you have retained ONE of your original requirements - 
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