Electric bicycles - who buys them?

[PushedDover]

Jobbo said:

I have not really used the EMTB mode on my bike because I just choose the assist (Turbo in advance before a steep climb, for instance). But yesterday I was climbing a stony, muddy, long, steep, wet hill and my rear wheel kept spinning in Turbo. So I knocked it back to EMTB and discovered it acts like traction control; it gave me all the assistance I wanted when there was grip but it cut assistance when the wheel spun up. Uncanny, probably not Bosch’s intention, but highly effective.

Thats the point of EMTB, It is so-called 'smart' and reacts to give you any variable assist from ECO levels to Turbo levels with this firmwar now running.
So much so on a hard climb in EMTB, flick it to Turbo : No difference, as it is giving that level of assist already.

[shurm]

Just bought a Haibike Hardseven 2.5 after having two Cubes previously with the Bosch motors. Had to buy what I could get hold of but I'm pleasantly surprised with this bike and the automatic mode certainly keeps me working on this Yamaha powered bike. My average speed was always 15mph on the Cubes as I just left it on turbo but I had more of a workout today and averaged 12mph on the Haibike suppose this is like e-mtb mode but I've never had that on the Cubes I owned so this feature will hopefully increase my fitness quicker.

[Trophy Husband]

PushedDover said:

Thats the point of EMTB, It is so-called 'smart' and reacts to give you any variable assist from ECO levels to Turbo levels with this firmwar now running.
So much so on a hard climb in EMTB, flick it to Turbo : No difference, as it is giving that level of assist already.

My understanding is that eMTB works sport to turbo only? I had my Bosch PLCX rerigged for eMTB and changed it back after a few weeks. Battery chewer. Just use the gears better?

[PushedDover]

Trophy Husband said:

PushedDover said:

Thats the point of EMTB, It is so-called 'smart' and reacts to give you any variable assist from ECO levels to Turbo levels with this firmwar now running.
So much so on a hard climb in EMTB, flick it to Turbo : No difference, as it is giving that level of assist already.

My understanding is that eMTB works sport to turbo only? I had my Bosch PLCX rerigged for eMTB and changed it back after a few weeks. Battery chewer. Just use the gears better?

I did sense a little more battery chew too.
I tend to be in Tour for the trail riding I predominantly do, occasionally flicking up to eMTB, and never to Turbo.

Of course we’ve all different terrain and ambitions (and legs) - but I suspect those that do more twisters and ripping or gnarling etc etc live in eMTB mode ??

[macp]

tapandunwrap said:

Yikes £4k. that's massive money, no? or am I missing the point?

Yes a lot of cash but still cheaper than some. I figured as I was replacing my car it would payback pretty soon and needed to be a viable replacement. I decided on what I wanted in a bike and landed on this.

[Newton472]

shurm said:

Just bought a Haibike Hardseven 2.5 after having two Cubes previously with the Bosch motors. Had to buy what I could get hold of but I'm pleasantly surprised with this bike and the automatic mode certainly keeps me working on this Yamaha powered bike. My average speed was always 15mph on the Cubes as I just left it on turbo but I had more of a workout today and averaged 12mph on the Haibike suppose this is like e-mtb mode but I've never had that on the Cubes I owned so this feature will hopefully increase my fitness quicker.

Good call, and the Yamaha motor seems pretty reliable. So easy to remove the speed limiter on that, thoroughly recommended if you want Ave speeds closer to 30mph...

I think someone posted the YouTube link a couple of Pages back..

[Jobbo]

PushedDover said:

Thats the point of EMTB, It is so-called 'smart' and reacts to give you any variable assist from ECO levels to Turbo levels with this firmwar now running.
So much so on a hard climb in EMTB, flick it to Turbo : No difference, as it is giving that level of assist already.

I always thought Bosch promoted it as increasing the assistance dynamically; it’s actually the dynamic reduction in assistance which I found surprisingly helpful.

[shurm]

Newton472 said:

shurm said:

Just bought a Haibike Hardseven 2.5 after having two Cubes previously with the Bosch motors. Had to buy what I could get hold of but I'm pleasantly surprised with this bike and the automatic mode certainly keeps me working on this Yamaha powered bike. My average speed was always 15mph on the Cubes as I just left it on turbo but I had more of a workout today and averaged 12mph on the Haibike suppose this is like e-mtb mode but I've never had that on the Cubes I owned so this feature will hopefully increase my fitness quicker.

Good call, and the Yamaha motor seems pretty reliable. So easy to remove the speed limiter on that, thoroughly recommended if you want Ave speeds closer to 30mph...

I think someone posted the YouTube link a couple of Pages back..

Thanks for the comment, think I'll leave it I need a workout as much as anything I'm just really glad I can get to the places I can I couldn't manage it on a normal bike (I've tried ).

[BIRMA]

shurm said:

Just bought a Haibike Hardseven 2.5 after having two Cubes previously with the Bosch motors. Had to buy what I could get hold of but I'm pleasantly surprised with this bike and the automatic mode certainly keeps me working on this Yamaha powered bike. My average speed was always 15mph on the Cubes as I just left it on turbo but I had more of a workout today and averaged 12mph on the Haibike suppose this is like e-mtb mode but I've never had that on the Cubes I owned so this feature will hopefully increase my fitness quicker.

I wonder if Giant use the same software systems in that case. My Yamaha motored Giant has 'auto' mode and I haven't bothered to ride it in anything else, it certainly gives a decent boost uphill and since the new software update seems to have even more power instantly. I haven't had a chance to determine if battery life is different yet but I do like it's power delivery.
As I mentioned before I have halved my time around my favourite route and I'll stick to it for a while longer while I learn how to adjust to riding a trail bike without an engine.

[Darth Paul]

BIRMA said:

I wonder if Giant use the same software systems in that case. My Yamaha motored Giant has 'auto' mode and I haven't bothered to ride it in anything else, it certainly gives a decent boost uphill and since the new software update seems to have even more power instantly. I haven't had a chance to determine if battery life is different yet but I do like it's power delivery.
As I mentioned before I have halved my time around my favourite route and I'll stick to it for a while longer while I learn how to adjust to riding a trail bike without an engine.

I pulled the trigger the other day on a giant fathom e+2. Was tempted by a full sus, but couldn’t justify the jump in price on something so expensive already. I’m selling a motorbike to cover the cost which is mental, but I’ll use it more than I do the bike, that hasn’t moved in months. My dads got a Yamaha haibike so I was looking for a Yamaha motor specifically so will be excited to see what the giant element does to it. Should be arriving next week sometime.

[BIRMA]

Darth Paul said:

I pulled the trigger the other day on a giant fathom e+2. Was tempted by a full sus, but couldn’t justify the jump in price on something so expensive already. I’m selling a motorbike to cover the cost which is mental, but I’ll use it more than I do the bike, that hasn’t moved in months. My dads got a Yamaha haibike so I was looking for a Yamaha motor specifically so will be excited to see what the giant element does to it. Should be arriving next week sometime.

I’m sure you’ll love it, the latest Giant update seems to have boosted the bike assistance, I was a bit hesitant about updates as some had glitches in them but this works fine. As I mentioned the Giant ‘auto’ mode is really clever.

[Barchettaman]

The main driveside bearing on my Bosch Cx performance motor has completely gone, dead, knackered.
Just shy of 10,000km in all weathers so not too bad I suppose.
I tried to flush and repack it but it’s much to far gone. Half the ball bearings have pinged out.
I don’t have a bearing press to remove or replace it so have sent it off to guy in Köln who does and hopefully will.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

Plastic gears!!!

[Barchettaman]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

Plastic gears!!!

Loads of plastic gears and cogs inside, no noticeable wear on any of them, I don’t think they’re failing.
Just one massively chewed up bearing.

[RedWhiteMonkey]

Given the torque and gearing involved in these types of motor there is no engineering reason why plastic gears wouldn't be totally acceptable for the job.

[Cupramax]

Indeed, even Bafang motors with 160nm torque have plastic internal gears.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

I'm not convinced. I'd like to see a high mile one opened.

A 50cc moped has metal gears and makes about 1.5kw power and 3nm of torque.

A strong rider+assist is going to be 750 - 1kw peak power on an mtb and 90nm torque.

Then there's the wear. Engineering plastics just don't have the fatigue strength and toughness of metal.

[Cupramax]

Mines done 10k miles, I’m going to pull it apart at some point soon as the secondary reduction gears (non plastic) run better lubed, so will be interesting to see what state the plastic ones are in…

[Barchettaman]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

I'm not convinced. I'd like to see a high mile one opened.

A 50cc moped has metal gears and makes about 1.5kw power and 3nm of torque.

A strong rider+assist is going to be 750 - 1kw peak power on an mtb and 90nm torque.

Then there's the wear. Engineering plastics just don't have the fatigue strength and toughness of metal.

Like I say, no visible wear on any of the internal plastic gear teeth on my 10000km motor.

Apologies in advance for my ignorance, but isn’t a two stroke moped engine and gearbox ‘wet’ I.e. operating in oil, hence metal gears being more appropriate?

Cheers
Simon

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

Barchettaman said:

Like I say, no visible wear on any of the internal plastic gear teeth on my 10000km motor.

Apologies in advance for my ignorance, but isn’t a two stroke moped engine and gearbox ‘wet’ I.e. operating in oil, hence metal gears being more appropriate?

Cheers
Simon

That is a good point actually. Plastic gears don't require lubrication, which will add parasitic losses to the system. That's probably the reason.

No doubt bosch et SL have run these gears n a lab to 6 figure mileages.