Electric bicycles - who buys them?

[bobbo89]

PushedDover said:

-Pete- said:

gangzoom said:

Let's all nor forget its 100% perfectly possible to go faster than 15.5mph on an eBike that's not been 'chipped'

but let’s not forget that some e-bike motors create huge drag when they get over 15.5mph

So why change the law because some are stter than others ?

It's not the drag, it's the weight. Until you've experienced it you don't know.

[Dog Star]

CheesecakeRunner said:

dave_s13 said:

Fundamental to this debate around motorised vs non motorised cycles is that unless you've got experience of riding a non ebike, an ebike and a motorbike then your opinion is worth absolutely fxk all.

I've had plenty of exposure to all three.

15.5mph is too fekin slow.

45 years riding covering all three.

If you want to go fast, get a motorbike.

Same here - 40 years. Supersports bikes and enduro bikes.

15.5mph is absolutely fine. As stated - you want faster then get a moped, motorbike or get a legally setup electric motorbike.

If the limit was 20mph the same people would be saying it should be 25. And on and on it would go.

[President Merkin]

Dog Star said:

Same here - 40 years. Supersports bikes and enduro bikes.

15.5mph is absolutely fine. As stated - you want faster then get a moped, motorbike or get a legally setup electric motorbike.

If the limit was 20mph the same people would be saying it should be 25. And on and on it would go.

Would they? That ignores a lot of what's been said on this thread. More than a few people in here exhibiting characteristics of being unable to process anything other than their own experience.

[OutInTheShed]

Dog Star said:

CheesecakeRunner said:

dave_s13 said:

Fundamental to this debate around motorised vs non motorised cycles is that unless you've got experience of riding a non ebike, an ebike and a motorbike then your opinion is worth absolutely fxk all.

I've had plenty of exposure to all three.

15.5mph is too fekin slow.

45 years riding covering all three.

If you want to go fast, get a motorbike.

Same here - 40 years. Supersports bikes and enduro bikes.

15.5mph is absolutely fine. As stated - you want faster then get a moped, motorbike or get a legally setup electric motorbike.

If the limit was 20mph the same people would be saying it should be 25. And on and on it would go.

Back in the day, I was one of the last 'cohorts' to get a moped with pedals at 16.
We felt the later 30mph versions were too slow for the traffic compared to our Fantics and Fizzies which would cruise at 40.

15 is too slow for many road situations. 250W is way too little for many road situations.
But these are bicycles, which 14 year olds may ride on shared pavements.

If you're 16 or over, you have options for the road.
For shared paths, you should consider the other users.

[stanlow45]

15.5 is too slow, 20 works fine in the US. As ever I remain surprised anyone is actually arguing for 15.5, but no matter it'll continue to be hacked out. Far less need if it were 20.

That said there were some loons arguing smart motorways were a good idea in some other thread, these forums don't disappoint. I just think a lot of posters have far too much time on their hands to post nonsense views when they could be out instead on their restricted or derestricted bikes.

[gangzoom]

OutInTheShed said:

15 is too slow for many road situations. 250W is way too little for many road situations.
But these are bicycles, which 14 year olds may ride on shared pavements.

Hardly any normal human can sustain 250W from leg power (Powerfully built PHs aside ).

The 'average' cycling speed is around 15mph. I'm not sure what people are think eBikes are used for, but mine is essentially the same as my normal pedal bikes, expect it allows me to get to work whilst carrying loads of stuff without needing a shower on arrival. Though following on from the other thread, I think I'm going to stop doing that now, luckily my other eBike is essentially a gravel bike, and from what small bits of 'gravel' riding I've done, 15mph is more than quick enough in mud/rocks covered tracks.

https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed...

[gangzoom]

bobbo89 said:

It's not the drag, it's the weight. Until you've experienced it you don't know.

The Creo is just under 13kg, not light but not that heavy compared to many other gravel bikes. That's with some pretty cheapo aluminum wheels/handle bars and Suntour cassette, if you wanted too. I recon you could get it down to below 12kg if you spent some £££ on higher range components, still heavy but certainly not mad.

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 25th March 12:15

[trails]

gangzoom said:

bobbo89 said:

It's not the drag, it's the weight. Until you've experienced it you don't know.

The Creo is just under 13kg, not light but not that heavy compared to many other gravel bikes. That's with some pretty cheapo aluminum wheels/handle bars and Suntour cassette, if you wanted too. I recon you could get it down to below 12kg if you spent some £££ on higher range components, still heavy but certainly not mad.

Edited by gangzoom on Monday 25th March 12:15

Which is an entirely different proposition to a 40lb+ full suspension eMTB...which is what Bobbo is talking about.

[STe_rsv4]

Richtea1970 said:

OutInTheShed said:

Richtea1970 said:

‘But most don’t’ - I don’t think you’d find a single driver who has never gone over the posted speed limit, so ‘most do’.

And an ebike rides nothing like a motorbike, and is nowhere near as dangerous. I have both.

Define 'dangerous'?

I could argue my pedal bike has higher risks than my 1000cc.
Certainly far more of my friends have had injuries from MTBs than motorbikes in the last ten years or so.

You could ‘argue it’ as long as you want, but you’d be wrong. A simple google of motorcycle deaths vs mtb would do that. Over the last 20 years Motorbike deaths average 6 a week.

You are making the mistake of assuming that danger = death.
I've been riding Sportsbikes +25 years and touch wood, have had very few accidents or injuries. In that same time of riding MTB's, Ive now accumulated an unhealthy number of scars. I anticipate every MTB day out (on trails / trail centres etc) that I will pick up at least 2 or 3 wounds from falling off or something catching me as I ride past. The risk of broken bones or skin punctures is far higher when riding the MTB than riding a motorbike due to the nature of the riding.

[AmyRichardson]

bobbo89 said:

It's not the drag, it's the weight. Until you've experienced it you don't know.

Frequently it is drag, especially on hire schemes or with cheaper granny bikes.

My mother has the latter and I use Voi bikes in Cambridge - above the assisted speed it's like riding in treacle - much harder/slower than pressing on on (say,) an old steel dutchy.

Electrical assisted "proper bikes" are a different story, why the same experience can't be made universal IDK...

[Richtea1970]

STe_rsv4 said:

Richtea1970 said:

OutInTheShed said:

Richtea1970 said:

‘But most don’t’ - I don’t think you’d find a single driver who has never gone over the posted speed limit, so ‘most do’.

And an ebike rides nothing like a motorbike, and is nowhere near as dangerous. I have both.

Define 'dangerous'?

I could argue my pedal bike has higher risks than my 1000cc.
Certainly far more of my friends have had injuries from MTBs than motorbikes in the last ten years or so.

You could ‘argue it’ as long as you want, but you’d be wrong. A simple google of motorcycle deaths vs mtb would do that. Over the last 20 years Motorbike deaths average 6 a week.

You are making the mistake of assuming that danger = death.
I've been riding Sportsbikes +25 years and touch wood, have had very few accidents or injuries. In that same time of riding MTB's, Ive now accumulated an unhealthy number of scars. I anticipate every MTB day out (on trails / trail centres etc) that I will pick up at least 2 or 3 wounds from falling off or something catching me as I ride past. The risk of broken bones or skin punctures is far higher when riding the MTB than riding a motorbike due to the nature of the riding.

You said ‘higher risks’, scraping your knee a few times on a pushbike is not in anyway comparable to the risk you take every time you get on a motorbike.

[PushedDover]

trails said:

gangzoom said:

bobbo89 said:

It's not the drag, it's the weight. Until you've experienced it you don't know.

The Creo is just under 13kg, not light but not that heavy compared to many other gravel bikes. That's with some pretty cheapo aluminum wheels/handle bars and Suntour cassette, if you wanted too. I recon you could get it down to below 12kg if you spent some £££ on higher range components, still heavy but certainly not mad.

Which is an entirely different proposition to a 40lb+ full suspension eMTB...which is what Bobbo is talking about.

So we change the law because some sttier bikes have motors that drag as I pointed out above.

And only need to increase the speed limits for the heavy bikes, not the light ones?

so Owners of st heavy bikes can have assistance to 20mph.
But Heavy Bikes with OK motors like mine have what limit? 17.5mph ?

[monthou]

PushedDover said:

So we change the law because some sttier bikes have motors that drag as I pointed out above.

And only need to increase the speed limits for the heavy bikes, not the light ones?

so Owners of st heavy bikes can have assistance to 20mph.
But Heavy Bikes with OK motors like mine have what limit? 17.5mph ?

As asked previously:

monthou said:

What's the downside of assistance to 20mph, given any cyclist who wants to will see that going downhill anyway?

[OutInTheShed]

gangzoom said:

OutInTheShed said:

15 is too slow for many road situations. 250W is way too little for many road situations.
But these are bicycles, which 14 year olds may ride on shared pavements.

Hardly any normal human can sustain 250W from leg power (Powerfully built PHs aside ).

The 'average' cycling speed is around 15mph. I'm not sure what people are think eBikes are used for, but mine is essentially the same as my normal pedal bikes, expect it allows me to get to work whilst carrying loads of stuff without needing a shower on arrival. Though following on from the other thread, I think I'm going to stop doing that now, luckily my other eBike is essentially a gravel bike, and from what small bits of 'gravel' riding I've done, 15mph is more than quick enough in mud/rocks covered tracks.

https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed...

Indeed.
Personally I feel that pedal cycles are too slow and low power for many of the roads around here.
I choose not to cycles these roads, I also choose not to be a pedestrian on them.

The main road out of here is narrow enough that two buses or lorries in opposite directions need to choose where they meet.
But it's a 50 limit.
There's hills where cyclists wheeze up in low gear.
There are potholes etc.
Your 3kW (?) modern mopeds are not a great choice for these roads.

I don't believe there is a 'one size fits all' mode of personal transport, so I choose what roads and tracks I use in conjunction with choosing the vehicle.
A decent 250-400 cc trail bike might go anywhere on any path from a bridleway to a motorway, if I only had to consider myself of course.

[AmyRichardson]

A fair minority of individuals, well - young men, can ride at 2.5-3.0 w/kg for multi-minute bursts (with pros being North of 7 :0) - so 250w isn't that uncommon for (say,) taking on a short climb.

Thus a 250w bike will struggle as much on climbs, and in general acceleration, as a strong (but far from exceptional) cyclist. Of course the e-bike can crank 250w all the time, so for rolling around in urban settings it's probably enough. Might be frustrating on the open road.

As others are noting, the problem isn't the assistance limit - its how the bikes respond (as push bikes) beyond that limit.

[trails]

PushedDover said:

So we change the law because some sttier bikes have motors that drag as I pointed out above.

And only need to increase the speed limits for the heavy bikes, not the light ones?

so Owners of st heavy bikes can have assistance to 20mph.
But Heavy Bikes with OK motors like mine have what limit? 17.5mph ?

I'm entirely content in how I have articulated the impact the current legal limit has when using a full suspension ebike on a MTB trail, and the transformation of that experience at a higher rate of assistance.

Your wilful ignorance is a drag, just like my Bosch Gen 4 CX....shame you can't be tuned to be fit for purpose too

[RizzoTheRat]

monthou said:

What's the downside of assistance to 20mph, given any cyclist who wants to will see that going downhill anyway?

Living somewhere with lots of cyclists (NL), it's very rare to see anyone doing more than 25kph, and those that are going faster are generally those on road bikes who spend a lot of time cycling and know what they're doing. I tend to do about 20-25kph on my manual bike and am faster than the average commuter. The average pensioner pottering to the shop on thier e-bike at 45kph would be an accident waiting to happen IMO.

Also here if you want an e-bike that does more than 25kph then it perfectly legal to do so. You just need a license, insurance, helmet (i think), and can't ride it on some cycle paths. Not sure if the UK is the same though

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Tuesday 26th March 12:27

[OutInTheShed]

RizzoTheRat said:

Living somewhere with lots of cyclist, it's very rare to see anyone doing more than 25kph, and those that are going faster are generally those on road bikes who spend a lot of time cycling and know what they're doing. I tend to do about 20-25kph on my manual bike and am faster than the average commuter. The average pensioner pottering to the shop on thier e-bike at 45kph would be an accident waiting to happen IMO.

Also here if you want an e-bike that does more than 25kph then it perfectly legal to do so. You just need a license, insurance, helmet (i think), and can't ride it on some cycle paths. Not sure if the UK is the same though

I think you also need the vehicle to be registered and taxed.
To register it, it will have to go through type approval or 'IVA', an individual vehicle approval test against road vehicle standards.

You can't just slap a 3kW motor on an old MTB and away you go.
I don't actually know whether it's possible to get a (e.g.) 25 mph electric motor-assisted pedal bike through IVA and register it?
Or, what engineering would you need to do, to get it through the test?
I've heard opinion that the high centre of gravity of something that's basically a pushbike would mean you couldn't meet required braking levels?
You'd also probably be required to use e-marked components such as tyres?

[President Merkin]

You're replying to someone talking about the Netherlands, where they live.

[SpunkyGlory]

Does anyone have any real-world experience of the Ribble Hybrid Al-E? It's for Mrs Spunky, so she can join me on some rides around the hilly roads/paths of Derbyshire.