Electric bicycles - who buys them?
Discussion
Yeah, sorry, should have made that clearer, have edited my post.
My point is here (NL), you can walk in to shop and buy a high speed electric bike in the same way you can buy a scooter/moped, and it makes it clear than 25kph limited = bicycle, 45kph = "speed pedelc" with thier associated rules. Looks like you can buy them in the UK but you don't have a separate category for them so they class as mopeds, meaning more rules to follow.
I reckon introducing speed pedelecs as an official category in the UK could solve a lot of issues by making it a lot easier to legally own what many are currently doing illegally.
My point is here (NL), you can walk in to shop and buy a high speed electric bike in the same way you can buy a scooter/moped, and it makes it clear than 25kph limited = bicycle, 45kph = "speed pedelc" with thier associated rules. Looks like you can buy them in the UK but you don't have a separate category for them so they class as mopeds, meaning more rules to follow.
I reckon introducing speed pedelecs as an official category in the UK could solve a lot of issues by making it a lot easier to legally own what many are currently doing illegally.
RizzoTheRat said:
Yeah, sorry, should have made that clearer, have edited my post.
My point is here (NL), you can walk in to shop and buy a high speed electric bike in the same way you can buy a scooter/moped, and it makes it clear than 25kph limited = bicycle, 45kph = "speed pedelc" with thier associated rules. Looks like you can buy them in the UK but you don't have a separate category for them so they class as mopeds, meaning more rules to follow.
I reckon introducing speed pedelecs as an official category in the UK could solve a lot of issues by making it a lot easier to legally own what many are currently doing illegally.
The problem is, some people want the additional speed but without the additional regulation that comes with it. They also want to be able to use them on cycle paths/trails and wherever else a regular bike is used. My point is here (NL), you can walk in to shop and buy a high speed electric bike in the same way you can buy a scooter/moped, and it makes it clear than 25kph limited = bicycle, 45kph = "speed pedelc" with thier associated rules. Looks like you can buy them in the UK but you don't have a separate category for them so they class as mopeds, meaning more rules to follow.
I reckon introducing speed pedelecs as an official category in the UK could solve a lot of issues by making it a lot easier to legally own what many are currently doing illegally.
OutInTheShed said:
So in the Uk, there is no legal category a 'speed pedelec' could be registered or type approved in?
What about the rest of Europe.
In NL you have to have a number plate, mirror, 3rd party insurance, a car or motorbike licence and a helmet, and they're limited to 45 kph. Not sure if that's the same throughout the EU but I'd guess It varies a bit by country.What about the rest of Europe.
The UK doesn't have a type approval for speed pedelecs, so you have to register it as a moped. A quick google suggests it's a bit of a hassle to register one but can be done for about £200 https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/bu...
benny.c said:
The problem is, some people want the additional speed but without the additional regulation that comes with it. They also want to be able to use them on cycle paths/trails and wherever else a regular bike is used.
True, but a lot of people here moaning about the limit seem to be mountain bikers complaining that it's slow doing road sections. I bet a fair few would quite happily have a legal one if it was easy to do.Edited by RizzoTheRat on Tuesday 26th March 13:54
RizzoTheRat said:
benny.c said:
The problem is, some people want the additional speed but without the additional regulation that comes with it. They also want to be able to use them on cycle paths/trails and wherever else a regular bike is used.
True, but a lot of people here moaning about the limit seem to be mountain bikers complaining that it's slow doing road sections. I bet a fair few would quite happily have a legal one if it was easy to do.Edited by RizzoTheRat on Tuesday 26th March 13:54
RizzoTheRat said:
True, but a lot of people here moaning about the limit seem to be mountain bikers complaining that it's slow doing road sections. I bet a fair few would quite happily have a legal one if it was easy to do.]
Here it's mainly MTB owners wanting to increase the assistance limit for trails & cycle paths. Non of them would accept plates, mirrors etc.bmwmike said:
What additional speed?
Motor assistance speed.Edited by benny.c on Tuesday 26th March 14:30
benny.c said:
RizzoTheRat said:
True, but a lot of people here moaning about the limit seem to be mountain bikers complaining that it's slow doing road sections. I bet a fair few would quite happily have a legal one if it was easy to do.]
Here it's mainly MTB owners wanting to increase the assistance limit for trails & cycle paths. Non of them would accept plates, mirrors etc.bmwmike said:
What additional speed?
Motor assistance speed.Edited by benny.c on Tuesday 26th March 14:30
I want the extra speed (15.5 to 20mph) so I can ride more safely and comfortably on the roads without blowing out of my backside holding the primary position at 20mph on 20mph limit roads.
Assistance limit has no bearing on my downhill speed on trails or roads as I already ride as fast as my ability allows.
I won't be riding at 20mph uphill on trails either, as that seems a bit pointless.
trails said:
It's more about being slow on MTB trails, for me at least; I avoid the road wherever I can...I'd happily adopt any additional legislation to ride at a higher limited top speed; already wear a helmet, already have car/bike license, only change for me would be if there was a third-party insurance requirement, all my bikes are covered for damage already.
Yep. My natural cadence on the flat is around 16-17mph, Pain in the arse for me at 15.5 on a one by 12 speed full suss. Maybe I should by an eight speed 1990's clunker & not feel like I'm missing out on my bike's natural capabilities because someone in an office decided on an arbitrary number,bmwmike said:
Right, but that doesn't affect the speed the bicycle can reach.
I want the extra speed (15.5 to 20mph) so I can ride more safely and comfortably on the roads without blowing out of my backside holding the primary position at 20mph on 20mph limit roads.
Assistance limit has no bearing on my downhill speed on trails or roads as I already ride as fast as my ability allows.
I won't be riding at 20mph uphill on trails either, as that seems a bit pointless.
Sure, but no one wants the additional regulation that comes with it. The UK government will never up the current limit we have, it's not going to happen. The only potential change will be to the EU system of e-bikes and speed pedelecs. Great for commuters and working bikes but wont get MTB'ers what they want as you can't ride a speed pedelec on trails.I want the extra speed (15.5 to 20mph) so I can ride more safely and comfortably on the roads without blowing out of my backside holding the primary position at 20mph on 20mph limit roads.
Assistance limit has no bearing on my downhill speed on trails or roads as I already ride as fast as my ability allows.
I won't be riding at 20mph uphill on trails either, as that seems a bit pointless.
benny.c said:
but wont get MTB'ers what they want as you can't ride a speed pedelec on trails.
You can't at the moment as speed pedelecs don't exist in the UK, they're classed as electric mopeds. Whether or not places would allow them on trails if they brought in speed pedelec legislation is another issue I guess. Presumably you can already ride a non road-legal derestricted e-bike on trails though? Although that begs the question why do you want to? Surely with assistance up to 15kph you're already going quicker up the steep hills than you would on a manual bike?
RizzoTheRat said:
Presumably you can already ride a non road-legal derestricted e-bike on trails though?
Although that begs the question why do you want to? Surely with assistance up to 15kph you're already going quicker up the steep hills than you would on a manual bike?
It's against the law as by definition, they fall outside of the legislation. However, we circle all the way back to the great weakness in the argument in that no one cares. There are no trail cops, no one checking who's riding what, where or ever likely to be.Although that begs the question why do you want to? Surely with assistance up to 15kph you're already going quicker up the steep hills than you would on a manual bike?
On the second question, derestricting is not about breaking hill climb records. It's all about getting the best out of the bike as the designer intended. You only need look back a few posts on this page to see people's experiences of riding bikes above the limiters. Said it before, a 20mph limit, reflecting not ony the bikes'; capabilities but also the sweet spot for the vast majority of regular emtb riders would likely kill 80% of the derestricting market overnight.
President Merkin said:
trails said:
It's more about being slow on MTB trails, for me at least; I avoid the road wherever I can...I'd happily adopt any additional legislation to ride at a higher limited top speed; already wear a helmet, already have car/bike license, only change for me would be if there was a third-party insurance requirement, all my bikes are covered for damage already.
Yep. My natural cadence on the flat is around 16-17mph, Pain in the arse for me at 15.5 on a one by 12 speed full suss. Maybe I should by an eight speed 1990's clunker & not feel like I'm missing out on my bike's natural capabilities because someone in an office decided on an arbitrary number,I may have already posted the majority of that, and here we are going around in circles again; same people still clutching their pearls, and ignoring any posts that don't support their assertions...bit of a waste of time really this isn't it, maybe I'll go mow the lawn before the Easter rain starts instead
Yeah, going around in circles and although it’s fine debating it, the law won’t change so it’s all kind of moot anyway.
North Wales plod have been up at Degla this week and One Planet have asked folk to report bikes with throttle control to stop it “becoming a bigger problem”. Not seen too many myself, just a few Freys occasionally. OP also posted a reminder of what constitutes a legal e-bike.
North Wales plod have been up at Degla this week and One Planet have asked folk to report bikes with throttle control to stop it “becoming a bigger problem”. Not seen too many myself, just a few Freys occasionally. OP also posted a reminder of what constitutes a legal e-bike.
Edited by benny.c on Tuesday 26th March 16:33
This is an interesting article about riding and registering a speed pedelec (assisted to 45kmh) in the UK.
https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/bu...
It’s a massive hassle at every turn and the kicker is how do you MoT it?
Anyway I’ve got my 26“ folder back on the road, with its Swytch front wheel e conversion kit. It pulls to 20 mph and is utterly hilarious. My Bosch pedelec feels very sluggish on the flat, in comparison:
https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/bu...
It’s a massive hassle at every turn and the kicker is how do you MoT it?
Anyway I’ve got my 26“ folder back on the road, with its Swytch front wheel e conversion kit. It pulls to 20 mph and is utterly hilarious. My Bosch pedelec feels very sluggish on the flat, in comparison:
monthou said:
A speed pedelec is assisted to nearly 30mph.
Nobody has talked about wanting that.
Loads of people in euroland not only talk about it, but actually buy them!Nobody has talked about wanting that.
The journo in the article linked a post or two up is saying things should change to treat these things as bikes not mopeds.
Barchettaman said:
This is an interesting article about riding and registering a speed pedelec (assisted to 45kmh) in the UK.
https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/bu...
It’s a massive hassle at every turn and the kicker is how do you MoT it?
Anyway I’ve got my 26“ folder back on the road, with its Swytch front wheel e conversion kit. It pulls to 20 mph and is utterly hilarious. My Bosch pedelec feels very sluggish on the flat, in comparison:
I bet that is hilarious, two wheel drive and a super stiff chassis https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/advice/advice/bu...
It’s a massive hassle at every turn and the kicker is how do you MoT it?
Anyway I’ve got my 26“ folder back on the road, with its Swytch front wheel e conversion kit. It pulls to 20 mph and is utterly hilarious. My Bosch pedelec feels very sluggish on the flat, in comparison:
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