Entry level Mountain Bike

[LasseV]

Steve91 said:

Thanks for all the input guys!

I know that a bike at the lower end of the spectrum will come with it's compromises, but I'm not intending on flying down the first rocky decent I see! I'm more after something that will handle trails and inspire a little confidence!

I took my old Giant Hardtail out for the first time in ages on Monday and felt so uneasy on it. I'm aware that most of is down to confidence, but it never felt at home (Although it was a budget bike when I bought it in 2009!)

I'm keeping an eye on second hand adverts

Yes used one is good option, because cheap new bike doesn't add confidence at all. Lower level stuff havent improvet that much in 10 years. Cheap fork is still cheap and it just can't handle trails. Most important thing to have is a decent fork, (like rock shox recon), proper tires and good frame.

[alfaman]

Agree with all the comments about cheap (new) bikes at around 400-500 pounds being generally crap.

you’ll want to upgrade everything in a few months .

I have 2 bikes ... a very old David Hinde hardtail .. that was about 700 new in 2002

And a spec stumpy expert full Susser from 2009 (bought new for 1400 in 2010 ... list was 2000 GBP)

Even for fairly normal cross country and single track ... entry point new hardtail would be approx 1000.... maybe 1300-1500+ for entry point full suss.

If you only have 500 to spend ... best to get a nearly new or well treated second hand bike from someone who is upgrading or

Eg: a 1000+ hardtail for 500

Would highly recommend decent hydraulic disc brakes all round to avoid rim wear.

And decent quality front fork.

And shifters / derailleurs of deore minimum ... LX better

[ExVantagemech..]

alfaman said:

Agree with all the comments about cheap (new) bikes at around 400-500 pounds being generally crap.

you’ll want to upgrade everything in a few months .

I have 2 bikes ... a very old David Hinde hardtail .. that was about 700 new in 2002

And a spec stumpy expert full Susser from 2009 (bought new for 1400 in 2010 ... list was 2000 GBP)

Even for fairly normal cross country and single track ... entry point new hardtail would be approx 1000.... maybe 1300-1500+ for entry point full suss.

If you only have 500 to spend ... best to get a nearly new or well treated second hand bike from someone who is upgrading or

Eg: a 1000+ hardtail for 500

Would highly recommend decent hydraulic disc brakes all round to avoid rim wear.

And decent quality front fork.

And shifters / derailleurs of deore minimum ... LX better

Yup, exactly, I found once I got past a certain skill point (Im no downhill nutter but ride all but the blacks at BPW) the following.

1) Shimano and Sram dont really make any crap gearsets. The cost between base and top end is huge, but SX etc entry stuff is still slick and will work well if looked after, Throw it in a van and not clean it and a £1000 XTR will give up the ghost.
2) The frame is the biggie, first it must fit properly. Too big or small a frame because it was a bargain will be a disaster. Second hand make sure you can still buy bits for them such as bearings etc. Check that its not falling in two often helps..
3) To add to the frame, make it personal, bar width, stem length a dropper post (one of the greatest inventions on a bike in decades) you'd be amazed how 20mm wider bars can help stabilize a bike. People will simply ride a bike with the seat adjusted and leave the bars, levers etc as they were fitted. Lever position makes a huge difference to comfort and hand fatigue.
4)Forks / Suspension again as with point 1, the big names dont make really crap suspension, just ensure they are up to the job you want them for. You wouldnt buy a set of Boxxers for a tow path just like you wouldnt ride a set of single crowns down a World Cup Circuit.
Remember however, forks need servicing and you wont see much change from £100 for a fork service.
5) Future proofing - you might think you will only ride on the grass, but trust me, if the bug bites you your garage will fill rather quickly...

Ask friends if they would let you ride their bikes to get a feel for what you want, or for example test ride or hire a bike from a centre.
But always ride it before buying - I rode a bike at Evans (Pitch Pro) and hated it. Then rode the Enduro and it was night and day.

My current Stumpy Ive probably spent a further £1k upgrading and replacing parts. I broke 2 sets of 32mm Revelations so replaced with 35mm Yari's, 1X11 XT, on its 3rd BB PF30, pads, carbon risers and stem, new command post, tubeless with tougher tyres.
Sure I could have bought a bike from Decathlon, but the basic bike would have failed long before these parts did.
We all have a budget, just dont waste it on a brand new boxed BSO....

[C722]

alfaman said:

Even for fairly normal cross country and single track ... entry point new hardtail would be approx 1000.... maybe 1300-1500+ for entry point full suss.

If you only have 500 to spend ... best to get a nearly new or well treated second hand bike from someone who is upgrading or

Eg: a 1000+ hardtail for 500

Would highly recommend decent hydraulic disc brakes all round to avoid rim wear.

And decent quality front fork.

And shifters / derailleurs of deore minimum ... LX better

What's wrong with the Voodoo Bizango for £520?

[dhutch]

Its very hard isnt it.

Obviously more money gets you more bike, and its non-linear, in a way where any bike claiming to be a 'mountain bike' for £100 is going to be awful, but a £1600 hardtail isnt going to be twice as good at an £800 one. However an £650 bike might be twice as good as a £450 bike, because there is a point at which you can make the parts needed to make a good bike. Forks/Brakes/Frame&Geometry.

There is also a very big range of what people call 'mountain biking' from the wheelchair enabled family loop at the local park, through to pour yourself down the Alps having got the chairlift up to the top of Le Pleney at 1500m.

And there is also a fine line between spending enough money future proofing for a hobby you haven't even started yet, and spending enough that you give yourself a fair chance at liking it.

I don't think trackdays and some others car references make a great comparable as there is at least a basic legal requirement to an automobile to comply with, but while a city car will do motorway work, and you could a Dacia Stepway over a field, you wouldn't spec it if you where planning to take up off-roading as a hobby.

We know almost nothing about the OP, where they want to ride, what riding they have done before, what drives the budget they have suggested they want to stick to.

That's why these threads are so hard.

The advice you would give to a teenage from the city who has saved the worldly worth to take on mountain biking to get out meet new friends, is a world apart from someone who is a 45yo adrenaline junky who decided they want to try an Alp holiday biking in the summer season as they like snow boarding but its not cold enough, they dont want to spend too much but they have £10k in the bank, kids have left home and a high earning job.


Daniel

[Craikeybaby]

I think features, rather than price should be used as a guide.

You can get bikes at under £500 with air forks and hydraulic disk brakes for under £500, but some more expensive bikes will still have coil forks and cable brakes.

[nickfrog]

dcb said:

nickfrog said:

I really don't want to hurt your feelings again but £800 is very cheap for a mountain bike that is fit for the purpose of a leisure activity called mountain biking (spot the hint "mountain"). If mountain biking doesn't involve the level of solidity (and therefore safety) that a £800 new bike has, then it's probably not mountain biking and doesn't require a mountain bike.

Arguably true, but not the kind of statement guaranteed to get newbies
interested in bikes. Newbies like having a low cost introduction, not a "£800
minimal entry price or don't bother" snobby attitude.

nickfrog said:

Again go down a red at Bike Park Wales (or even Peaslake/Leith Hill) on a cheapo bike and you'll realise within 10 yards (literally) that it's not fit for purpose.

More of the same, really.

Would it surprise you to hear that I did Leith Hill on my old £150 Halfords bike and it was
completely fine ? Indeed, I got to the A25 on freewheel.

nickfrog said:

The same way as a Micra won't work well on track day.

Of course it won't keep up with very much, but I bet it would go round ok.
I wouldn't get all snobby about someone having a go,
I'd be buying them a pint for trying some cheap fun.

I have seen VW campervans on the Nurbergring - I bet they were having 50% of the fun
of the Porsche 911 at 10% of the cost.

Another thing: the use of "BSO" by some posters. Very dismissive. Yes cheap bikes
aren't as good as more expensive bikes, but they are still bikes and someone's
pride and joy.

I think you're overly defensive about this. There is nothing snobby or arrogant about anything I said and I don't want to insult anyone's bike, god forbid. I should not have used the word "st" and probably should have used the word "not fit for purpose" though. I really didn't think I was causing offence.

I don't believe in cheap mountain bikes (nor do I believe in taking a Micra on a track day) but that's just a personal / subjective view based on experience. Different people may also have different definitions of "mountain biking".

[moanthebairns]

I was recently in a similar position to the op.

I've returned to MTB-ing after a 15 years absence, I used to do a lot of BMX-ing and drop off/dual/dirt jumps when I was a teen.

I went out on some bike trails last weekend (firstly I was gobsmacked at the setup now, showers, cafes, marked routes etc and hoodies, jeans and piss pots are frowned upon ) no digging your own track or jumps.

I tried a full sus orange (i've never liked the full sus feel, partly from riding BMX so much) and a whyte 905 hardtail.

Within an hour or so it became clear that if I wanted to do this if I bought a new bike at £400-500 i'd have it broken within a month just pissing about doing bunny hops around the car park.

I went for a used (the guy has literally done 20 miles on it to the shops) 905 2018 hardtail for a grand.

I could have got cheaper used, but I wanted a hydraulic seat riser after trying one.

I'd suggest hiring them first as has been stated for £25, I got back into it to help with my fitness racing motorbikes. I budgeted up to £500 but realised it'll cost me that again in 6 months time by time I break want to upgrade stuff.

[ExVantagemech..]

Take what you like from the use of BSO, its a readily used term for those bikes that really arent up to the job in hand.
Sure you might well get down a few runs, hell even get 12 months of light riding but use it to do 6 foot gaps and actually ride through some rock gardens and they are justified as BSO's. Land a few heavy ones and fall off a few times, thats the test of how well built it is.

Buy cheap, buy twice. Applies to so many things in life. If youre not serious about riding, then sure a sub £300 bike will suffice.

[BRR]

When I moved to near cannock chase about 10 years ago it seemed a great idea to make use of the FTD trails there so I bought a cheap mountain bike (about £250) and within a month it was wrecked, as in completely unrideable so I bought a used Trek Fuel Ex8 which i paid about £600 for, i think the new price would've been about £1500. That was more than good enough for what I subjected it to over there, I'm sure better riders than me, especially those more into downhill would've found it slightly lacking though. I've now got a £3k+ Intense Tracer which is a far better bike than I am rider so is probably overkill.

Recently there has been a decent change in the market though with quite a few companies offering good bikes at cheap(ish) prices, especially Vitus, Calibre, YT etc and around £1k is probably enough to get you something that would get you a decent bike that will at least last as long as it takes you to develop the skills to need something better

[yellowjack]

C722 said:

What's wrong with the Voodoo Bizango for £520?

Nothing wrong at all. Like when I first got back into MTB riding, and bought a second hand, abused GT Aggressor from a mate for £30. It was shagged, in need of a hub bearing rebuild, and not really worth the £30 I paid for it.

Then I took it to Centerparcs, and some idiot stole it, along with my son's brand new Giant. Surprisingly, my insurer was most accommodating, insisting on paying out on my bike (which I only put on the claim form as an afterthought) on a new-for-old basis. So my insurer bought me a lovely (or so I thought at the time) new GT Avalanche 3.0, ticket price around £330, from the local GT dealer.

That was a revelation in terms of the improvement over the Aggressor. I loved that bike, and even now, 8 years later, it's still doing the business for my youngest son as his Uni commute bike. I developed as an off road rider on it, and even entered a few winter MTB races. It held up for years under quite heavy use. Yes, the coil shocks were terrible by any measure, but I'd come from solid forks so knew no better. And eventually I had to spend about £150 on most of a new groupset when the rear mech fed itself into the rear wheel on a pretty benign byway ride. But I got 6 years from it before it went u/s on me and got relegated to road commuting duties for a student.

That was replaced by a Giant Anthem full suspension bike that I got reduced to £900 from £1500 as it was one of the last of that year's models and on a price-match deal. It makes the GT look and feel like an antique if I'm honest, and if I'd known when I bought that GT that I'd get so into MTBing, then I'd have topped up the insurance payment and got a better bike. But it doesn't change the fact that from 2008 to 2014 I rode a heavy, cheap hard tail MTB quite hard without major issues.

Not sure how this helps anyone to decide which bike to buy now, but just to say that bikes at the cheaper end of "proper" bikes aren't always as terrible as they're often made out to be. Just don't buy anything with 'Dunlop' written on the frame from Asda or Sports Direct...

[dhutch]

BRR said:

When I moved to near Cannock chase about 10 years ago it seemed a great idea to make use of the FTD trails there so I bought a cheap mountain bike (about £250) and within a month it was wrecked, as in completely unrideable so I bought a used Trek Fuel Ex8 which i paid about £600 for, i think the new price would've been about £1500.

Sounds good. I hired a Ex 8 from Swintertons at Cannock about that sort of time 8-10 years ago, first time out on a reasonable spec full sus bike, tubeless tires etc. At the time I was riding a 2006/7ish Rockhopper and had recently left uni and was working for JCB, cracking bike I thought. Only because they had ran out of hardtails to hire so I lent mine to my mate who didnt want to pay the price of hiring a full sus.

Started doing more riding, most Fridays after work and maybe a weekend a month with mates. Then bought a 2004 (vintage even when new to me) bighit and did the alps for a week. Been back a few times, love it. Spent out on a set of Shimano Saints after the first year but still ride it today when the mood takes and I have up-lift!
Few years ago I picked up a 2011 Specialized Pitch Pro in nearly-new spec, someones custom build they hadnt time for, paid plenty for it but several friends had them and enjoyed the geometric and the spec was good. Its a 7yo bike now but I love it, bet you could pick one up for £500 these days but you would have to be able to recognise good condition or you could end up with a lemon.


Daniel

[alfaman]

C722 said:

What's wrong with the Voodoo Bizango for £520?

Nothing ‘wrong’ and looks good value for 500 - however..

1/ Suntour forks aren’t very good : i’d swap for marzocchi bombers or similar ( buy new forks )

2/ 29 inch wheels aren’t for everyone .... wheels are heavier ... and arguably need to be close to 6 foot tall and above .

the voodoo is good for 500 - but would be 700 -800 after I’d put on new forks (and maybe brakes ... it doesn’t specify the details on the hydraulic brakes.

[Craikeybaby]

alfaman said:

C722 said:

What's wrong with the Voodoo Bizango for £520?

Nothing ‘wrong’ and looks good value for 500 - however..

1/ Suntour forks aren’t very good : i’d swap for marzocchi bombers or similar ( buy new forks )

2/ 29 inch wheels aren’t for everyone .... wheels are heavier ... and arguably need to be close to 6 foot tall and above .

the voodoo is good for 500 - but would be 700 -800 after I’d put on new forks (and maybe brakes ... it doesn’t specify the details on the hydraulic brakes.

I agree that Suntour forks aren't the best, but I've done 5,000km on mine, including plenty of red routes at trailcentres. I'm only replacing them now because I got a great deal on a set of Fox 34s.

[ExVantagemech..]

Sorry Alfa, but the 29" thing isnt true. I'm 5'7" and my stumpy is a 29er, as is my F29. My SiL is the same height, she runs 29ers as well. She frequently races enduros and gets on the podium. Early bikes had shorter geo, I've never had my foot hit the front wheels nor have I felt the bike too big in tight turns. However if I were to be more jump orientated I would look at a 650b/27.5 as an option. My stumpy was the Evo so had longer travel and slacker head angle.

[sjg]

alfaman said:

And shifters / derailleurs of deore minimum ... LX better

I remember LX... must be at least a decade ago now.

Marzocchi Bombers? After Marzocchi's collapse they were being made by....drumroll.... SR Suntour. Then were closed again a few years ago, and flogged off to Fox who seem to be using them as a budget brand for their older tech. Glory days very much behind them.

Anyway, it's easy to get caught up in older ways of thinking or distracted by the new shiny things but budget kit is brilliant these days. Yes, the really budget bikes can have some nasty bits but it's really hard to buy a £400+ MTB that isn't decent, and the likes of Halfords with their discounting put out some amazing value stuff like the Bizango. A couple of decades of trickle-down mean that everything in this category has gears that shift fine, brakes that work brilliantly, wheels that will put up with some heavy use, and forks that will work and survive just fine with the proper care.

Edited by sjg on Monday 30th July 20:00

[alfaman]

ExVantagemech.. said:

Sorry Alfa, but the 29" thing isnt true. I'm 5'7" and my stumpy is a 29er, as is my F29. My SiL is the same height, she runs 29ers as well. She frequently races enduros and gets on the podium. Early bikes had shorter geo, I've never had my foot hit the front wheels nor have I felt the bike too big in tight turns. However if I were to be more jump orientated I would look at a 650b/27.5 as an option. My stumpy was the Evo so had longer travel and slacker head angle.

Interesting - I’ve not really looked at gear that recently ... frame geometry may have changed a little but if the newer frames have longer geometry for shorter riders .... how does that work without being too ‘reachy’ for the rider?

Are the rear triangles longer? Fork angles reduced?

Curious what has changed

[vindaloo79]

See if your employer does salary sacrifice schemes, made purchasing a £1k bike seem almost negligible cost the first time i did that back in the day...

[lufbramatt]

alfaman said:

Interesting - I’ve not really looked at gear that recently ... frame geometry may have changed a little but if the newer frames have longer geometry for shorter riders .... how does that work without being too ‘reachy’ for the rider?

Are the rear triangles longer? Fork angles reduced?

Curious what has changed

Steeper seat tube, lower head tube angle, longer top tube, shorter stem, slightly lower bottom bracket.