Road Bikes - Disc or Not
Discussion
E65Ross said:
Kawasicki said:
Bike with weeping piston seal was less than a year old.
The 2nd issue wasn't my own doing, it was delivered with that issue.
I am not anti disc brakes, I own more bikes with disc brakes than rim brakes. I just see that rim brakes have some advantages, cost, simplicity and weight for example. Discs are better for modulation and preserving rims.
Less than a year old.....clearly a fault with the product rather than something common. Same for the 2nd.The 2nd issue wasn't my own doing, it was delivered with that issue.
I am not anti disc brakes, I own more bikes with disc brakes than rim brakes. I just see that rim brakes have some advantages, cost, simplicity and weight for example. Discs are better for modulation and preserving rims.
RE discs better for modulation and preserving rims.....you forgot the most important thing about one type of braking system rather than another....that they actually can slow you down faster
Discs ahoy.
Whilst 'all weather ability' is often cited - for some reason the more key one for me is temperatures and fade.
I live in HK where the decents are fast / steep straights with tight corners. There is at least one per ride where I have fade by the end (I'm 85kg) - in the summer it's worse. This is on an alloy rim with Ultegra calipers.
I blew an inner tube this summer due to heat build up coming to the end of a descent from Buddha (literal not metaphorical).
I recently moved to carbon wheels - the braking is the frightening side of laughable (although they make a great noise).
I'm currently looking for a new bike, and I won't even entertain the idea of rim brakes for how I ride, despite the savings!
Whilst 'all weather ability' is often cited - for some reason the more key one for me is temperatures and fade.
I live in HK where the decents are fast / steep straights with tight corners. There is at least one per ride where I have fade by the end (I'm 85kg) - in the summer it's worse. This is on an alloy rim with Ultegra calipers.
I blew an inner tube this summer due to heat build up coming to the end of a descent from Buddha (literal not metaphorical).
I recently moved to carbon wheels - the braking is the frightening side of laughable (although they make a great noise).
I'm currently looking for a new bike, and I won't even entertain the idea of rim brakes for how I ride, despite the savings!
I have a CX bike with recently fitted Ultegra hydraulic brakes. They are nice but very grabby. They remind me of the brakes on a Toyota car, no real middle ground or modulation, its either all or nothing, slight braking or skid. The worry I have with disc brakes on bikes is the set up, which is an utter ball ache. I have Sram red caliper brakes on the road bike and they are every bit as good in terms of stopping power. I think for caliper brakes alot depends on the quality of the brake block, something like swissstop is expensive but really good in terms of stopping power. Stay away from syntered blocks, as a material its longer lasting but in my opinion stopping power is s
t.
t. After having hydraulic discs on the MTB I specced them when I purchased my Ribble last year.
The first frame the calliper mounting point for the rear calliper was squew tiff, so caused fast pad wear and rubbing. Not really down to the discs though, that was just poor quality control by Ribble. ETA - I will add this, Ribble's response to this was exemplary. I will not complain about their customer service. Anyway, I digress.
The second the brakes have been good, and even though I didn't struggle with rim brakes (aluminium rim) on my previous bike, I prefer the modulation offered by the discs in the dry, and in the wet the difference is pronounced.
All that said, after Alpe D'Huez tri this year with several big stops/slows from high speed the pads appeared to be a bit toasted. Little retardation until they warmed up, very very noisy... then after another ride down to do the hairpins with a mate, I got back up to the resort only to find the brakes had completely gone. Brake fade, which I did not expect. I'm 90kgs, but brake fade from less than 100 miles of Alpe's riding? Thank goodness they didn't fail until after the descent.
I've re-bleed them and replaced the pads and they're back to normal. It's put me off them a little though...
The first frame the calliper mounting point for the rear calliper was squew tiff, so caused fast pad wear and rubbing. Not really down to the discs though, that was just poor quality control by Ribble. ETA - I will add this, Ribble's response to this was exemplary. I will not complain about their customer service. Anyway, I digress.
The second the brakes have been good, and even though I didn't struggle with rim brakes (aluminium rim) on my previous bike, I prefer the modulation offered by the discs in the dry, and in the wet the difference is pronounced.
All that said, after Alpe D'Huez tri this year with several big stops/slows from high speed the pads appeared to be a bit toasted. Little retardation until they warmed up, very very noisy... then after another ride down to do the hairpins with a mate, I got back up to the resort only to find the brakes had completely gone. Brake fade, which I did not expect. I'm 90kgs, but brake fade from less than 100 miles of Alpe's riding? Thank goodness they didn't fail until after the descent.
I've re-bleed them and replaced the pads and they're back to normal. It's put me off them a little though...
Edited by Dimski on Tuesday 6th November 16:59
Dimski said:
Brake fade, which I did not expect. I'm 90kgs, but brake fade from less than 100 miles of Alpe's riding? Thank goodness they didn't fail until after the descent.
I've re-bleed them and replaced the pads and they're back to normal. It's put me off them a little though...
What discs and pads are you using? I've re-bleed them and replaced the pads and they're back to normal. It's put me off them a little though...
Rotor size, whether they're floating discs and something like race matrix pads can make a huge difference to heat dispersion.
rastapasta said:
I have a CX bike with recently fitted Ultegra hydraulic brakes. They are nice but very grabby. They remind me of the brakes on a Toyota car, no real middle ground or modulation, its either all or nothing, slight braking or skid. The worry I have with disc brakes on bikes is the set up, which is an utter ball ache. I have Sram red caliper brakes on the road bike and they are every bit as good in terms of stopping power. I think for caliper brakes alot depends on the quality of the brake block, something like swissstop is expensive but really good in terms of stopping power. Stay away from syntered blocks, as a material its longer lasting but in my opinion stopping power is st.
That is most bizarre. I have Ultegra hydraulics (R8070) on my road bike and I wouldn't describe them in that way at all. Very progressive, lovely linear feel with fantastic modulation. Far better than the rim brakes on aluminium rims and swissstop pads I have on my other road bike!t. bigdom said:
What discs and pads are you using?
Rotor size, whether they're floating discs and something like race matrix pads can make a huge difference to heat dispersion.
It was an Ultegra equipped bike, I recall I'd switched pad compound from organic to metal (I think). That may explain the fade, but makes what seemed to be the toasted pads all the weirder.Rotor size, whether they're floating discs and something like race matrix pads can make a huge difference to heat dispersion.
I'll have a look tomorrow at the rotor size. I don't recall thinking they were that titchy.
E65Ross said:
rastapasta said:
I have a CX bike with recently fitted Ultegra hydraulic brakes. They are nice but very grabby. They remind me of the brakes on a Toyota car, no real middle ground or modulation, its either all or nothing, slight braking or skid. The worry I have with disc brakes on bikes is the set up, which is an utter ball ache. I have Sram red caliper brakes on the road bike and they are every bit as good in terms of stopping power. I think for caliper brakes alot depends on the quality of the brake block, something like swissstop is expensive but really good in terms of stopping power. Stay away from syntered blocks, as a material its longer lasting but in my opinion stopping power is st.
That is most bizarre. I have Ultegra hydraulics (R8070) on my road bike and I wouldn't describe them in that way at all. Very progressive, lovely linear feel with fantastic modulation. Far better than the rim brakes on aluminium rims and swissstop pads I have on my other road bike!t. Since this is Pistonheads lets talk cars and motorbikes! I got my bike license in 1975 and my car license a year later, the two biggest advances in driving safety since I took to the road are...... you've guessed it......the widespread adoption of disc brakes and tubeless tyres, it's a no brainer really, mountain bikers have embraced both, I am sure the roadies will catch up, eventually 
So I was out on my winter bike today
A downhill section and I could feel my SRAM Apex hydraulic discs fading and a little smokey at the bottom of a fairly short but quick descent
The calipers were a little warm but the fade was unexpected, I've been down that same section on my other bike with ultegra discs many times with no issues.
As the bike was bought second hand I may have to check and see if it's running cheap pads, however looking at the overall condition I'd guess it's the stock pads!
Interesting but I was never worried about not stopping even with a whiff of smoke.
A downhill section and I could feel my SRAM Apex hydraulic discs fading and a little smokey at the bottom of a fairly short but quick descent
The calipers were a little warm but the fade was unexpected, I've been down that same section on my other bike with ultegra discs many times with no issues.
As the bike was bought second hand I may have to check and see if it's running cheap pads, however looking at the overall condition I'd guess it's the stock pads!
Interesting but I was never worried about not stopping even with a whiff of smoke.
My issue with discs on a road bike are purely down to safety in a pack of amateurs, with mixed abilities, and a mix of rim and disc brakes on road bikes. MTB and CX bikes tend not to be used the same way, in the same circumstances and conditions as road bikes ( not to the same degree by amateurs in ‘Sportives’ certainly). I regularly organise group rides / club rides etc. and I’ve already had to be careful to try and ensure that disc brakes road bikes are kept behind rim braked bikes, on any technical / twisty / downhill bits of the courses, owing to several “sh11111t, fvvvvvvvcccck, WTF” moments, when the disc brakes bikes have stopped much more quickly than the rim braked bikes. MTBs are ( generally ) far heavier as well, and ridden in worse conditions, so discs are a necessity, rather than a luxury.
GOATever said:
My issue with discs on a road bike are purely down to safety in a pack of amateurs, with mixed abilities, and a mix of rim and disc brakes on road bikes. MTB and CX bikes tend not to be used the same way, in the same circumstances and conditions as road bikes ( not to the same degree by amateurs in ‘Sportives’ certainly). I regularly organise group rides / club rides etc. and I’ve already had to be careful to try and ensure that disc brakes road bikes are kept behind rim braked bikes, on any technical / twisty / downhill bits of the courses, owing to several “sh11111t, fvvvvvvvcccck, WTF” moments, when the disc brakes bikes have stopped much more quickly than the rim braked bikes. MTBs are ( generally ) far heavier as well, and ridden in worse conditions, so discs are a necessity, rather than a luxury.
Do you have the same concern for rim brakes, when some amateurs with mixed abilities are using aluminium rims and carbon rims?GOATever said:
My issue with discs on a road bike are purely down to safety in a pack of amateurs, with mixed abilities, and a mix of rim and disc brakes on road bikes. MTB and CX bikes tend not to be used the same way, in the same circumstances and conditions as road bikes ( not to the same degree by amateurs in ‘Sportives’ certainly). I regularly organise group rides / club rides etc. and I’ve already had to be careful to try and ensure that disc brakes road bikes are kept behind rim braked bikes, on any technical / twisty / downhill bits of the courses, owing to several “sh11111t, fvvvvvvvcccck, WTF” moments, when the disc brakes bikes have stopped much more quickly than the rim braked bikes. MTBs are ( generally ) far heavier as well, and ridden in worse conditions, so discs are a necessity, rather than a luxury.
The good old first car with disk brakes in India theory.frisbee said:
GOATever said:
My issue with discs on a road bike are purely down to safety in a pack of amateurs, with mixed abilities, and a mix of rim and disc brakes on road bikes. MTB and CX bikes tend not to be used the same way, in the same circumstances and conditions as road bikes ( not to the same degree by amateurs in ‘Sportives’ certainly). I regularly organise group rides / club rides etc. and I’ve already had to be careful to try and ensure that disc brakes road bikes are kept behind rim braked bikes, on any technical / twisty / downhill bits of the courses, owing to several “sh11111t, fvvvvvvvcccck, WTF” moments, when the disc brakes bikes have stopped much more quickly than the rim braked bikes. MTBs are ( generally ) far heavier as well, and ridden in worse conditions, so discs are a necessity, rather than a luxury.
The good old first car with disk brakes in India theory.
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