High end road ( super ) bikes are getting a bit pricey
Discussion
Each to their own
I wouldn't (and couldn't atm!) spend more than about 3/4k on a bike, If I saw something special I might be tempted. Id be too scared of crashing/scratching/damaging it. i want a bike that I can ride not cherish.
Fair play to those that spend a lot, for some people 10k isn't a lot of money.
Using 105 brakes and cassette on that Canyon is a good move, keeps price down and brakes don't make you any faster! My best bike only has 10 speed 105, it just works and handles abuse. If I do break it then its dirt cheap and popular. Id much rather have a decent frame and wheels than group set and finishing bits.
Also the high end stuff is rare, if you go into most high street shops and even big shops that specialize in decent kit the bikes usually dont go past 2.5k , at least the case for the 3/4 shops round me the south west.
I wouldn't (and couldn't atm!) spend more than about 3/4k on a bike, If I saw something special I might be tempted. Id be too scared of crashing/scratching/damaging it. i want a bike that I can ride not cherish.
Fair play to those that spend a lot, for some people 10k isn't a lot of money.
Using 105 brakes and cassette on that Canyon is a good move, keeps price down and brakes don't make you any faster! My best bike only has 10 speed 105, it just works and handles abuse. If I do break it then its dirt cheap and popular. Id much rather have a decent frame and wheels than group set and finishing bits.
Also the high end stuff is rare, if you go into most high street shops and even big shops that specialize in decent kit the bikes usually dont go past 2.5k , at least the case for the 3/4 shops round me the south west.
keith2.2 said:
TwistingMyMelon said:
brakes don't make you any faster! .
I presume you mean in terms of Wattage to speed on the road - better brakes absolutely make you 'faster' in terms of reducing times for stretches of road where you need to use the brakes.You might get an advantage on an extended, twisty 15%+ hill where you have no choice but to ride down on the brakes (and heat issues would mean you'd have to stop and wait on rim brakes), but how many of those do we ride?
BMWBen said:
Not sure I agree with that - if your rim brakes are able to lock up the wheel and send you over the front or brake hard enough to break traction then you don't get any advantage from "better" brakes.
You might get an advantage on an extended, twisty 15%+ hill where you have no choice but to ride down on the brakes (and heat issues would mean you'd have to stop and wait on rim brakes), but how many of those do we ride?
Try hong kong - it's basically all we ride..You might get an advantage on an extended, twisty 15%+ hill where you have no choice but to ride down on the brakes (and heat issues would mean you'd have to stop and wait on rim brakes), but how many of those do we ride?
Aside from that - (and to use dic / rim as the example, but it stands for good rim vs less good rim to a lesser extent) better modulation on discs means that you can brake at 9/10, where on a rim brake you would struggle to hit the spot between 6/10 and 10/10 (being locked up). They're also not affected by rim wear etc.
Having enough power to lock up the brakes isn't the point - its what you can do with them in between.
keith2.2 said:
BMWBen said:
Not sure I agree with that - if your rim brakes are able to lock up the wheel and send you over the front or brake hard enough to break traction then you don't get any advantage from "better" brakes.
You might get an advantage on an extended, twisty 15%+ hill where you have no choice but to ride down on the brakes (and heat issues would mean you'd have to stop and wait on rim brakes), but how many of those do we ride?
Try hong kong - it's basically all we ride..You might get an advantage on an extended, twisty 15%+ hill where you have no choice but to ride down on the brakes (and heat issues would mean you'd have to stop and wait on rim brakes), but how many of those do we ride?
Aside from that - (and to use dic / rim as the example, but it stands for good rim vs less good rim to a lesser extent) better modulation on discs means that you can brake at 9/10, where on a rim brake you would struggle to hit the spot between 6/10 and 10/10 (being locked up). They're also not affected by rim wear etc.
Having enough power to lock up the brakes isn't the point - its what you can do with them in between.
keith2.2 said:
BMWBen said:
Not sure I agree with that - if your rim brakes are able to lock up the wheel and send you over the front or brake hard enough to break traction then you don't get any advantage from "better" brakes.
You might get an advantage on an extended, twisty 15%+ hill where you have no choice but to ride down on the brakes (and heat issues would mean you'd have to stop and wait on rim brakes), but how many of those do we ride?
Try hong kong - it's basically all we ride..You might get an advantage on an extended, twisty 15%+ hill where you have no choice but to ride down on the brakes (and heat issues would mean you'd have to stop and wait on rim brakes), but how many of those do we ride?
Aside from that - (and to use dic / rim as the example, but it stands for good rim vs less good rim to a lesser extent) better modulation on discs means that you can brake at 9/10, where on a rim brake you would struggle to hit the spot between 6/10 and 10/10 (being locked up). They're also not affected by rim wear etc.
Having enough power to lock up the brakes isn't the point - its what you can do with them in between.
Rim wear is the one factor that does make them attractive to me. I got 4 years out of a set of Enve 65s in all conditions with 8-9k miles per year (£250 per year), but with discs they'd basically have lasted forever.
FukeLreeman said:
How on Earth do WT riders descend the various mountain rangers in the relevant Tours on rim brakes? They must be Godly........
This is one of the daft arguments akin to "it's fine as it is" or "it's solving a problem nobody has". I CAN run in my work shoes if I want to, but I'd prefer running shoes. I CAN cycle on an old steel bike with downtube shifters if I wanted to, but I'd prefer a modern frame with electronic shifting. We got by with the horse and cart, but the motorcar is better.Disc brakes are better at slowing you down in all conditions. It's a fact.
FukeLreeman said:
How on Earth do WT riders descend the various mountain rangers in the relevant Tours on rim brakes? They must be Godly........
They have discs on the WT, and yes, some of the riders are "godly". They also have closed roads and very often someone (even a motorbike) to follow the line. They also crash a lot on the descents. See every Grand Tour ever. Will discs stop that? No, will they reduce it? I would think definitely yes. You really have to use them to appreciate them. Mountain Bikes & CX bikes wouldnt even consider rim brakes anymore.Thornaby said:
They have discs on the WT, and yes, some of the riders are "godly". They also have closed roads and very often someone (even a motorbike) to follow the line. They also crash a lot on the descents. See every Grand Tour ever. Will discs stop that? No, will they reduce it? I would think definitely yes. You really have to use them to appreciate them. Mountain Bikes & CX bikes wouldnt even consider rim brakes anymore.
I've not done the sort of descents where you would get heating issues, but I've done steep descents in Yorkshire and the short sharp hills you get in the South. Disc brakes give you braking confidence - I probably wouldn't be happy hurling down a hillside at 50+ mph without them.Thornaby said:
FukeLreeman said:
How on Earth do WT riders descend the various mountain rangers in the relevant Tours on rim brakes? They must be Godly........
They have discs on the WT, and yes, some of the riders are "godly". They also have closed roads and very often someone (even a motorbike) to follow the line. They also crash a lot on the descents. See every Grand Tour ever. Will discs stop that? No, will they reduce it? I would think definitely yes. You really have to use them to appreciate them. Mountain Bikes & CX bikes wouldnt even consider rim brakes anymore.Interesting question I think. If they did make that much of a difference when compared to the other marginal gains that they have all adopted I'm surprised there is anyone left using rim brakes
I once rode with a rider who had his back brake disconnected, turbed up with his socks tucked in in chav trainers and rode the crap out of the day.
A random bloke hit a big drop then into a 20ft double on a £300 bike with no helmet.
Us normal people buy as expensive as we can afford as we think we can get as good as good riders.
£200 tops, watt meters etc etc are all folly for 95% of riders.
A random bloke hit a big drop then into a 20ft double on a £300 bike with no helmet.
Us normal people buy as expensive as we can afford as we think we can get as good as good riders.
£200 tops, watt meters etc etc are all folly for 95% of riders.
flight147z said:
Why don't all of the riders on the WT use disc brakes then?
Interesting question I think. If they did make that much of a difference when compared to the other marginal gains that they have all adopted I'm surprised there is anyone left using rim brakes
They weigh a tiny amount more, some, and fair enough, deem it noticeable (I'm 54.5kgs, my FTP is 4.7W/kg at 255W and I don't notice a half-full bidon to a full one....but there we go) and if your finishing up the top of a mountain which may be a 45+ min climb near threshold, it might be a gain of a couple of seconds tops.....Otherwise, no other reason.Interesting question I think. If they did make that much of a difference when compared to the other marginal gains that they have all adopted I'm surprised there is anyone left using rim brakes
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